Unpopular Rig-pinions

[maddnotez]

I love Dime, has to be one of my top all time favorites. Although I would definitely not choose the tone he did. It was fitting but I do think he had a science behind it and was very particular about it from the many posts and articles I have read.

It would take me a year to find it but I am pretty sure there is a thread on here from an engineer who worked with Dime in the studio. I specifically recall Dime leaving the studio to go to his house and get his old beat up 8 track that he used. The guy was particular and wanted HIS tone. I think Glenn Fricker touched base on that in a video too and even references the specific 8 track Dime used. Also you can hear Dime talking about his 8 track in interviews and he definitely mentioned it at the 1993 Guitar Clinic for Randall.

So yeah while I am sure he may have gotten paid to sell Randall amps I think he really did dig them. As far as the change to Krank, who knows. Completely different sound IMO.

 

[Beyond Black]

I love Dime, has to be one of my top all time favorites. Although I would definitely not choose the tone he did. It was fitting but I do think he had a science behind it and was very particular about it from the many posts and articles I have read.

It would take me a year to find it but I am pretty sure there is a thread on here from an engineer who worked with Dime in the studio. I specifically recall Dime leaving the studio to go to his house and get his old beat up 8 track that he used. The guy was particular and wanted HIS tone. I think Glenn Fricker touched base on that in a video too and even references the specific 8 track Dime used. Also you can hear Dime talking about his 8 track in interviews and he definitely mentioned it at the 1993 Guitar Clinic for Randall.

So yeah while I am sure he may have gotten paid to sell Randall amps I think he really did dig them. As far as the change to Krank, who knows. Completely different sound IMO.

Dime had the Krank amps up onstage, but he only used them for the cleans. He had his Randall’s behind them for everything else.

 

[Beyond Black]

Dime’s tone was harsh, abrasive and stiff. And so was Pantera’s music, making his tone perfect for it IMO. I can’t imagine it with any other tone. It was rude and brutal, just like his playing, and I loved it. CFH tone was especially cold, stiff and mechanical, and probably my least favorite tone of their last 4 albums, but it still fit the material perfectly. I think Vulgar’s tone was his best. Absolutely fucking brutal in every way, with the nastiest growl to it. I actually believe it’s one of metal’s all time great tones.

Most people in the crowd may or may not acknowledge or appreciate your high end gear and tone, but they’ll sure as hell notice if you sound like shit. I’ve got a friend in a prog metal band and their tone is bland AF, and it brings the whole package down to that level, and I believe that also contributes to their mediocre crowd response. There’s no reason to have shitty tone these days when there’s a long list of killer amps that can be had for under $700. And I have had non musician types compliment my guitar tone, so I’m not so sure it goes completely unnoticed by non guitarists.

Why would anybody buy new gear at full price? I see these guys that buy new gear, they get hit with the inevitable GAS attack, then they’re selling it at a huge loss. I don’t get it. I understand that it’s their cash to do with what they want, blah blah blah, but why? If you’re not a flipper, I sort of get it, but if you are, why? Every piece of gear that I own I bought used, and can flip and get my cash back. In many cases, I get more cash back. Most of the time you can find gear in mint/excellent condition and save 30% anyway. Not to mention for the price of a new item, you can buy something much better for the same price used. Buying new gear is like buying a new car. As soon as you pull of the lot, you’re losing your ass.

 

[Speeddemon]

My unpopular rig-pinion is the popular "6-6-6" settings for 5150's suck. Pure honk in the mids that way.

Agreed!

By the way, a huge disagree with the whole 'Don't criticize other people's clips if you haven't released any of yourself'.
There's so much stuff here that people can be opionated on/about, that they haven't done/bought/experienced themselves. Why would clips be a sort of protected species?
People that have never been to an art museum surely will have an opinion (often negative) about modern art. Heck, ask yourself if you're even halfway decent with a paintbrush and whether you have an opinion on say, Jackson Pollock?

There's plenty of live show recordings of me on Youtube, but just not at-home clips. For now I wasn't planning on a youtube channel and just uploading some phone vids goes against my perfectionism (when I have a shit ton of nice (analog) recording gear sitting around...just no PC in my studio)

Nevertheless, I feel perfectly fine that I can criticize other people's clips
1) I can voice my critique in a constructive and specific manner. Not "Your tone sucks", but more along the lines of "I hear flubbyness in the low-end and if you bring up the high mids a tad (around 1.5-2kHz), you'll add to note definition for fast runs"
2) I've been playing guitar for almost 30 years (with lessons the first 7 years) and in various bands for 25 years (from death metal to funk).
3) I have a degree in audio engineering and I know generally how certain ways of recording techniques would translate (phone vs. proper miced vs. IR's, etc.)

Not meant as bragging, just where I'm coming from. YMMV.

I think Dime's tone is nasty buzz saw, but it did fit the music. All the Line6 Spider comparisons are void by the way, as Dime's tone did NOT sound like it was covered in a 'digital plastic blanket'.

Other (potentially) unpopular opinions include:
I love most of Stryper's guitar tones.
Randy Rhoad's Ozzy-studio tone is so-so. (some other folks dedicated a whole thread about this)
If you need more than 6 strings to convey your musicality, you're either compensating for something or you're just probably making highly 'difficult' music that wants to be edgy for edgy's sake instead of writing a good, catchy song with good ol' 6-strings.
"What about extreme downtuning?" You say? Doth not Slayer/Venom/Cannibal Corpse/Overkill/Exodus etc. sound pretty fuckin' evil & heavy?

 

[Mr. Willy]

1. I’ve never gotten into Dime or Pantera for that matter. I always thought his tone fit the music though, kinda like Gerry Lee’s voice fit Rush’s music.
2. A great rig means nothing if you can’t play. I’ve seen dudes absolutely tear it up through a Valvestate and a Blues Jr. with pedals.
3. The pinnacle of high gain tone is a good JCM 800 and boost. Everything else is chasing that tone.
4. Heavy metal cruises are for douche bags.
5. The 80’s are gone forever. They will never come back no matter how much we want them to. It was a magical time, but it’s gone forever.
6. There are some very talented young musicians out there.
7. There will never be another Beatles or Nirvana. Both were 20th century phenomenons that will not be replicated. Not because of lack of talent, but because of the digital age.
8. Digital recording, while making things easier and more affordable to record for the average person, killed the heart and soul of rock.
9. Most metal music is just noise.
10. Sweep picking sounds absolutely stupid and should only be done if your name is Yngwie Malmsteen.
11. High output pickups are not necessary with high gain amps.
12. Chet Atkins smokes every single rock/metal player, ever.
13. Wanna hear great lead guitar? Listen to country music.
14. If you can’t sound good on acoustic, you are not a good guitarist.
15. It’s better to be able to write a good song than it is to be able to shred.
16. Gear/amp forums are a waste of time.

 

[japetus]

Most modern, channel switching super high gain amps can sound so similar and have such versatile EQ's that if you go into a studio it won't really matter much what amp you use, because of how much they can manipulate everything now digitally production wise. Most modern rock sounds terrible recorded and even worse live. 80% of guitar players don't know how to EQ their tone for a band setting. 80% of rock/metal guitarists use way too much distortion.

 

[311splawndude]

By the way, a huge disagree with the whole 'Don't criticize other people's clips if you haven't released any of yourself'.
There's so much stuff here that people can be opionated on/about, that they haven't done/bought/experienced themselves. Why would clips be a sort of protected species?
People that have never been to an art museum surely will have an opinion (often negative) about modern art. Heck, ask yourself if you're even halfway decent with a paintbrush and whether you have an opinion on say, Jackson Pollock?

There's plenty of live show recordings of me on Youtube, but just not at-home clips. For now I wasn't planning on a youtube channel and just uploading some phone vids goes against my perfectionism (when I have a shit ton of nice (analog) recording gear sitting around...just no PC in my studio)

Nevertheless, I feel perfectly fine that I can criticize other people's clips
1) I can voice my critique in a constructive and specific manner. Not "Your tone sucks", but more along the lines of "I hear flubbyness in the low-end and if you bring up the high mids a tad (around 1.5-2kHz), you'll add to note definition for fast runs"
2) I've been playing guitar for almost 30 years (with lessons the first 7 years) and in various bands for 25 years (from death metal to funk).
3) I have a degree in audio engineering and I know generally how certain ways of recording techniques would translate (phone vs. proper miced vs. IR's, etc.)

Really good points here.

"What about extreme downtuning?" You say? Doth not Slayer/Venom/Cannibal Corpse/Overkill/Exodus etc. sound pretty fuckin' evil & heavy?

Of course this is my opinion in an opinion based thread but I personally would rather listen to Killswitch Engage (C tuning/6 strings), Slipknot (A and B tunings/6 strings) and Korn (Z tuning/7 strings) but yeah those bands are still evil and heavy as is Tallica and Megadeth

1. I’ve never gotten into Dime or Pantera for that matter. I always thought his tone fit the music though, kinda like Geddy Lee’s voice fit Rush’s music.

Fixed

16. Gear/amp forums are a waste of time.

 

[thrashinbatman]

Also, honestly, your cab, mic, and mic position matter more than the amp. Within reason, of course, but two high-gain amps will sound much more similar through the same signal chain than the same amp through different cabs and mics. As an example, these three tones are all the same head, but different cabs and mics.

 

[maddnotez]

Also, honestly, your cab, mic, and mic position matter more than the amp. Within reason, of course, but two high-gain amps will sound much more similar through the same signal chain than the same amp through different cabs and mics. As an example, these three tones are all the same head, but different cabs and mics.

Dude, your band is fkn awesome.....Not huge on those vocals but damn that is some kick ass music.

 

[Monkey Man]

Downtuning impinges on the bass-player's frequency domain and makes mixing trickier.

 

[Mr. Willy]

1. I’ve never gotten into Dime or Pantera for that matter. I always thought his tone fit the music though, kinda like Geddy Lee’s voice fit Rush’s music.

Fixed

Stupid autocorrect. I typed that on my phone when I was at lunch. How dare my phone not recognize Geddy as a totally legitimate name!

 

[Valtyr]

If I want to play notes below normal 6 string guitar, I'd rather play bass instead.

I'd rather hear a keyboard player than a second guitarist (Queensryche and King Crimson are exceptions) in most cases.

The term "relic" should be replaced with "poser burst"

 

[311splawndude]

Downtuning impinges on the bass-player's frequency domain and makes mixing trickier.

Not when the bass player tunes down too

If I want to play notes below normal 6 string guitar, I'd rather play bass instead.

I'd rather hear a keyboard player than a second guitarist (Queensryche and King Crimson are exceptions) in most cases.

The term "relic" should be replaced with "poser burst"

I guess I'm the opposite. I'd rather have 2 guitars and no/less keys.

But down tuned metal doesn't necessarily mean 'oh look at me - i'm a bad ass'

Other types of music and guitars get tuned down. It is just another one of the cool things you can do with most stringed instruments. To my ears, drop C actually sounds better to my ears than other tunings Kind of like how I like creamer in my coffee and my brother likes is black. Try playing Unchained or Iron Man in Drop C (CGCFAD) and tell me that doesn't sound all kinds of kick ass

 

[Valtyr]

Downtuning impinges on the bass-player's frequency domain and makes mixing trickier.

Not when the bass player tunes down too

If I want to play notes below normal 6 string guitar, I'd rather play bass instead.

I'd rather hear a keyboard player than a second guitarist (Queensryche and King Crimson are exceptions) in most cases.

The term "relic" should be replaced with "poser burst"

I guess I'm the opposite. I'd rather have 2 guitars and no/less keys.

But down tuned metal doesn't necessarily mean 'oh look at me - i'm a bad ass'

Other types of music and guitars get tuned down. It is just another one of the cool things you can do with most stringed instruments. To my ears, drop C actually sounds better to my ears than other tunings Kind of like how I like creamer in my coffee and my brother likes is black. Try playing Unchained or Iron Man in Drop C (CGCFAD) and tell me that doesn't sound all kinds of kick ass

I think with the keyboard thing, I prefer having each instrument have entirely different timbres.

Seems like if both the guitar and bass are detuned it isn't as messy, I guess I just don't like it when they overlap too much. I got a 6 string bass and found that I never use the extended higher frequency range for the same reason.

 

[Monkey Man]

Yup.

If you detune the bass beyond the "normal" 5-string range in order to help keep it "separate" from detuned guitars, you then have to consider the kick drum's natural home.

 

[311splawndude]

wow where does it end

 

[Monkey Man]

Around 50Hz.

Go below that and the kick's got nowhere to live.

 

[311splawndude]

That reminds me. I've been thinking about this for awhile.

You know how music (rock, mostly metal) have gone more and more down-tuned, more bass heavy, kick drums, big bass, blast beats, all that? Like since Van Halen started dropping his E string to D or down tuning a half step? I kid. I kid. He wasn't the first.

Well my Rig-pinion is that this trend has loosely coincided with better speakers, better drivers, better amplification, better recording tools etc. Imagine trying to play Korn on an old stereo from the early 80's or even a boom box. Speakers we use today are so much better and can handle the lower frequencies better. Right? Or am I just making this up?

Was the equipment allowing for lower frequencies or were the lower frequencies pushing equipment to get better?

 

[thrashinbatman]

Also, honestly, your cab, mic, and mic position matter more than the amp. Within reason, of course, but two high-gain amps will sound much more similar through the same signal chain than the same amp through different cabs and mics. As an example, these three tones are all the same head, but different cabs and mics.

Dude, your band is fkn awesome.....Not huge on those vocals but damn that is some kick ass music.

I assume you're referring to my band's Bandcamp in my sig and not the Exodus songs, though I wish I was in Exodus! Thanks a lot, I appreciate it!

 

[Speeddemon]

Around 50Hz.

Go below that and the kick's got nowhere to live.

You've made multiple very valid points regarding downtuning and its effects on the total mix.

By the way, the problem with these sub-low tuned kickdrums is typically that they don't translate well to multiple types of stereos. You want your music to sound great on both highly optimized hifi sets, as well as clock radios, boom boxes, car audio and sub-optimal headsets.
That's one of the reasons why I don't own an Audix D6 or AKG D112 kickdrum mic. They're too scooped/pre-EQ'd IMO, making it either sound like a basketball hitting a gym floor or that plasticy uber-triggered sample tone with no meat on its bones.
I rather use my AT ATM-25, AKG D12 (yep, the coveted vintage one) or even an MD421. If your kick drum's energy peaks between 60 and 100~120Hz, it will be both heavy and audible even on smaller systems, without the woofiness (that occurs >200Hz).