What do you guys like as a high gain JCM800?

Twilt said:
I love Greenies for classic rock and 80's hair metal(Zep, AC/DC, Priest, etc...).

But if you are aiming for a tighter, higher gain tone than that, a speaker change may do wonders.
Could save you a ton of cash too.

Someone else may chime in if this is something you are willing to entertain.
My speaker/cab experiences are rather limited so I will kindly yield to someone else to walk you down that slippery slope lol.
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My cab originally had V30s in it (the Mesa ones). I found them a little too harsh with the Mark IV. They sounded really good with the Friedman though. I found that Greenbacks have a more balanced tone than the V30, but maybe not quite as tight.
 
The Helios is nice, I had one for a few years and mostly liked it. But it does have a few WTF design choices. No grid stopper on V1, so it picks up radio stations quite easily. Half of one of the triodes is also unused, so there's a free gain stage there... so why Bogner chose to use clipping diodes instead of a tube gain stage is beyond me. I like diode clipping as much as the next guy, but a tube gain stage does sound better. A few other more technical things going on. For the most part, it sounds good though.
 
reignman454 said:
Again, to me, they seem more compressed and less chewy than my actual vintage marshalls.
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Appreciate your whole response, but I just wanted to focus on this little detail for now. I've never played a vintage Marshall, so is it normal for them to have a putty or chewy feel to them? I'm guessing that's what my Friedman is attempting? The DSL100 I owned for a long time, it definitely did not feel very chewy to me.
 
Twilt said:
OP, I've been down this road and wasted a lot of money chasing "The Marshall Tone" without buying a Marshall.

If you want Marshall tone, get a Marshall. It really is that simple.

By your description, and if you refuse to use a boost/od pedal, a JVM or modded JCM/JMP is what you're after.
But even those can greatly benefit from having some sort of dirt out front. Dont cut yourself off at the knees.
Some sort of dirt/boost in front of any amp is just plain fun! 😁

Marshalls have been around for decades.
Any given brand can have issues and/or duds. But should something go wrong with, say a JVM or JCM/JMP, they've been around for so long, any amp tech worth his/her salt should have you fixed up rather quickly.
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Appreciate this, and I agree that I should learn from others. I'm leaning towards just going back to Marshall in some form. I like to keep my SD-1 around just for fun, but it's not really my main sound.
 
BABMusic said:
Appreciate your whole response, but I just wanted to focus on this little detail for now. I've never played a vintage Marshall, so is it normal for them to have a putty or chewy feel to them? I'm guessing that's what my Friedman is attempting? The DSL100 I owned for a long time, it definitely did not feel very chewy to me.
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Yes and no. It's a sliding scale. A hot-rodded Marshall, if done right, will have a tight low-end that tracks fast. But it will still have a pleasant give when you dig in on the initial attack. When I think of "chewy", I think of a low-mid emphasis with a bit of compression—Bogner. Friedmans... I can't say I've played any that wowed me. They are on the more tame end of the spectrum, IMO. And I gravitate toward angrier, more aggressive, more pissed off tones. And a DSL isn't really in the same territory as a hot-rodded 1959 or 2203/2204.
 
BABMusic said:
Appreciate your whole response, but I just wanted to focus on this little detail for now. I've never played a vintage Marshall, so is it normal for them to have a putty or chewy feel to them? I'm guessing that's what my Friedman is attempting? The DSL100 I owned for a long time, it definitely did not feel very chewy to me.
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No problem buddy....

Most importantly, what are YOU playing? I typically resort to the Dokken, Ozzy, Whitesnake, Ratt, Journey, STYX, Van Halen, King Diamond etc... Bottom line, a lot of big, open chords and double stops...

Even newerish Marshalls IE DSL's (Actually a decent amp board issues aside) 1987X, Super Lead etc still have some of that chewiness compared to a tight, more compressed amp like a 5150, SLO, etc.

I'd bet you the DSL was biasd on the side of caution from the factory IE: Colder Bias, less chewy.. a tech can get more into that but typically, the chewier amps I've owned were always biasd on the hotter side. Modded Marshalls are a terrible example as I have Lee Jackson modded 800's that sound woofy and then a JMP he had a hand in that is absolutely Van Halen 1 in a box.

I'll stick with my original answer until I hear your music tastes.... When I was gigging alot, playing professionally a concern I always had was if my main amp goes down, 2 is 1 and 1 is none... I loved that the Quick Rod's were pretty available back then and I could likely jump onto a marketplace, guitar center etc and find one because they all were pretty close. Were some I owned better? Sure... Always preferred the older, pre 4th tube circuits if memory serves me, mine now is an 06'. When I thinned the heard, all the later ones were gone. Personal preferences but at least that would give you a good starting point.
 
FourT6and2 said:
The Helios is nice, I had one for a few years and mostly liked it. But it does have a few WTF design choices. No grid stopper on V1, so it picks up radio stations quite easily. Half of one of the triodes is also unused, so there's a free gain stage there... so why Bogner chose to use clipping diodes instead of a tube gain stage is beyond me. I like diode clipping as much as the next guy, but a tube gain stage does sound better. A few other more technical things going on. For the most part, it sounds good though.
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Man, I’m glad I don’t know what I don’t know. I’d be pissed off all of my amps! 😊
 
I'm a big fan of the sound you're looking for and I just sold a newer Splawn QR 50 a couple weeks ago. Sometimes I loved it, sometimes it was just ok. I preferred it in Gear 1 or Gear 2 with gain below halfway, it felt more raw and open that way. It wasn't a gain monster like I expected and may not be enough gain for what you're looking for. Similar amount of gain to my BE100Dlx but it was more aggressive and quicker to track. I also didn't think it cleaned up as well as Marshalls or Friedmans.

People talk about the tightness but I found the bass to be overwhelming unless turned down low, especially compared to actual Marshalls. Not loose though really, just big. I kept the bass below 9:00, regardless of V30s, GBs, or T75s as speaker choice.

Boosted 800 or Jubilee would probably be my recommendation for that type of sound but I haven't played a Bogner Helios. The GZ Hellion can also cop those sounds once you get used to the controls.
 
  • 2203 and goose the front end with a pedal. In my case, I have a Ceriatone 2203 with 3-way bright switch and NFB control to further tweak things.
  • Ceriatone Yeti
  • Headfirst Alta. I haven't played one, but if I didn't already have four amps that do the Marshall thing, I'd be all over an Alta.
 
My favorite for that is a ‘80 JCM800 50W with an added tube. The circuit is basically a stock JCM800 with a gain stage put in front (where the SD1 would normally be). And it’s a very simple gain stage/circuit. I doubled up that extra tube so both triodes are in parallel but that’s not necessary.
 
SpiderWars said:
My favorite for that is a ‘80 JCM800 50W with an added tube. The circuit is basically a stock JCM800 with a gain stage put in front (where the SD1 would normally be). And it’s a very simple gain stage/circuit. I doubled up that extra tube so both triodes are in parallel but that’s not necessary.
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Yep, that's basically what I offered to do. Just need a good donor amp without PCB-mounted pots. Mainly because Marshall offset all the preamp tubes because the PCB got farther away from the rear of the chassis.
 
Well, I think I at least figured out why the open strings like the A, sound so boomy. I had the bass at 10 and the thump at 8. I dialed them back and the boominess goes away. I tried adding bass the "Mesa" way with a Boss GE7 -- doesn't really work, as the boominess returns. It's just part of the voicing of the BE.
reignman454 said:
No problem buddy....

Most importantly, what are YOU playing? I typically resort to the Dokken, Ozzy, Whitesnake, Ratt, Journey, STYX, Van Halen, King Diamond etc... Bottom line, a lot of big, open chords and double stops...
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At least with the Marshall side of my tone-chasing, it's similar to what you mention -- I love Jake's tone on BATM, I like Zakk's tone on NRFTW, I like Metallica's tone on Kill 'em All, I like Ratt's tone on their popular stuff. I mostly play rhythm these days, as it's just more fun than leads. I used to play leads all the time when I was younger, but I find working on difficult rhythm riffs is a lot more fun and makes me a better player.

I have a Mesa Mark Iv that I love and never plan on selling. It scratches the itch for all the super heavy stuff, compression, scooped stuff.
 
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