What the hell is going on here?

[jessexxx]

so if the dude played some scales..he would be good?...and if he played them fast he would be brilliant!..and !! and!!!!..if he had eyeliner and spandex!!...woooo whoooo!!...

are we all just sheep??...playing the same scales..the same way,..with the same rules???

"do what you've aways done-get what you've always gotten"

for those that dont get it,..i'll speak in your native tongue!!....bbbbaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!

This coming from the guy with the XXX and the Les Paul Gothic.

......yeah..and dont forget the sg gothic too!...so whats your point opeth!!....baaaaaaaaaaaahahahahahaa

 

[jessexxx]

i like the posts of ericb, RSM, & degenaro,....

maybe there are no bad notes.....maybe just bad salesmen..

whats the difference between a guitarist and a musician?

 

[Anonymous]

i like the posts of ericb, RSM, & degenaro,....

maybe there are no bad notes.....maybe just bad salesmen..

whats the difference between a guitarist and a musician?

There's a reason for music theory.

And this is it....

 

['63-Strat]

i like the posts of ericb, RSM, & degenaro,....

maybe there are no bad notes.....maybe just bad salesmen..

whats the difference between a guitarist and a musician?

There's a reason for music theory.

No offense Chris, but how much music theory have you taken? Because all 12 notes are fair game depending on the harmonic situation. There's a lot more to theory than what sounds "pleasant."

 

['63-Strat]

No offense Chris, but how much music theory have you taken? Because all 12 notes are fair game depending on the harmonic situation. There's a lot more to theory than what sounds "pleasant."

Absolutely none. I don't know a thing about it. I guess you got me there. Maybe these videos really do sound excellent and I'm just too dumb to understand?

No, I'm not saying that at all. And IMO, there is *nothing* wrong with not liking something for aesthetic reasons. But how and why we hear things the way we do is subjective. There's nothing wrong with preferring chocolate over sashimi, but that doesn't mean that sashimi sucks, either. The more you expose yourself to various levels of dissonance the more you can make sense out of it aurally. I don't think many people are born liking the sound of altered vs. major/minor but the same could be said of the taste of caviar or even beer, lol. Some things you do need to acquire a taste for before you can evaluate their merits on their own terms, IMO.

 

[Bob Savage]

all 12 notes are fair game depending on the harmonic situation. There's a lot more to theory than what sounds "pleasant."

To which I am very greatful!

 

[Valtiel]

I dont think there is anything wrong with playing "wrong" notes at all. But there are tasteful ways of integrating it like a lot of fusion guys do, and then there is just taking it way too far. Thats how I feel about the Kaiser stuff.

 

[Anonymous]

all 12 notes are fair game depending on the harmonic situation. There's a lot more to theory than what sounds "pleasant."

To which I am very greatful!

I'm gonna have to second that one. See... I MEANT to do that!

Steve

 

[degenaro]

`

No offense Chris, but how much music theory have you taken? Because all 12 notes are fair game depending on the harmonic situation. There's a lot more to theory than what sounds "pleasant."

Absolutely none. I don't know a thing about it. I guess you got me there. Maybe these videos really do sound excellent and I'm just too dumb to understand?

So why are there certain scales, modes, etc...? Why would there be such a thing if any note is okay? I don't get it.

You not digging Henry is just fine, but as Colin said there 12 notes in Western music that make varying degrees on sense against any given harmony.
Context...it matters. I reckon if you take a Classic Rock type riff in A and lay into the Bb like crazy you're not gonna like it. But try this on for size play a A riff, think Zep Rock'n'Roll...now the note you expect to hear over it is a C# not a C, but since we're all conditoned through Blues being handed down the C is just fine. And that's mosdef a "wrong" note over an A major chord.

Another exmple the Eb, not a note that belongs, but again thanks to Blues we hane issue with a b6 over the A.

And the grandaddy of them all, a couple of hundred years back the triton (#5) was literally forbidden to use since it was thought of as the devil's interval. Couldn't have a lot a tunes without that interval since every dom 7th chord has is. How you play a Blues as in A-, E7, D7 without that...heck how you play Purple Haze without it.

 

[degenaro]

I dont think there is anything wrong with playing "wrong" notes at all. But there are tasteful ways of integrating it like a lot of fusion guys do, and then there is just taking it way too far. Thats how I feel about the Kaiser stuff.

Well, but that's just the thing, just because I don't enjoy those youtube vids doesn't mean Henry didn't do it intentionally. And this is where I get my back up, any one can dig or dislike what they want. But when guys get onto the assumption thing, that I don't get.

 

[ericb]

I wasn't impressed by the Kaiser videos I saw, but that doesn't mean I wouldn't like other things he plays. .

HOWEVER, I've gotten very bored of the same old cliche style of rock guitar .. . Actually I got bored of it in the early 80's .. I really liked certain 'new wave 'guitarists as they played 'differently' and others who weren 't new wave.. . Adrien Belew, Robert Fripp, the guy from Gang of 4 (Andrew Gill) was awesome , Tom Verlaine, Phil Manzanera, etc. . The Edge from U2 was absolutely awesome when they came out to me. . I loved the guys in the Psychedelic Furs.

These guys all played TOTALLY differently than what was engrained in my style and soul. . .i.e. Hendrix meets Tony Iommi meets Pat Travers ,etc. .

Eddie Van Halen was awesome...

ALl those guys I mentioned above TO ME seemed to create new styles of rock guitar playing totally different than what I had listened to for years.

In the 80's there were loads of great metal bands I liked the guitar playing on , but not a huge amount of guys were instantly recognizable to me. . "INSTANTLY RECOGNIZABLE" = good to me normally as it means 'different' or 'creative' .

I LOVE Uli Roth , Scott Henderson , Jimmy Herring , Steve Vai, etc,etc but I also seem to love guitarists who 'invent ' own styles and don't sound like anyone.. Whether that be they play 'every wrong note' or every note in an order that 'classic rock ' doesn't allow , or whatever, I sort of like that stuff..

To put it all in perspective , I have LOADS of favorites from Michael Gurley of Dada, to Steve Vai and Uli and the others mentioned above, but also totally love Eizenger from Incubus , the guys in At the Drive IN , Stuart Adamson from the Skids/Big Country was great, etc,etc.. I like lots of new heavy style guys too from Levianth to Mudvayne to Killswitch . . . There's lots of good styles out there without playing the same old orders of notes over and over! Man do I try hard not to be a cliche rock guitarist, but it's hard not to be sometimes

Eric

 

[Valtiel]

I dont think there is anything wrong with playing "wrong" notes at all. But there are tasteful ways of integrating it like a lot of fusion guys do, and then there is just taking it way too far. Thats how I feel about the Kaiser stuff.

Well, but that's just the thing, just because I don't enjoy those youtube vids doesn't mean Henry didn't do it intentionally. And this is where I get my back up, any one can dig or dislike what they want. But when guys get onto the assumption thing, that I don't get.

Oh no doubt about him doing this intentionally. I think what just rubs me the wrong way is the *way* he plays the wrong notes. He plays them as if they were right notes, if that makes sense. When I think of using "wrong" notes in a lick I think of them purely as passing tones just there to add tension or give a cool slinky kind of feel. You can stretch those out all you want, but when you start resolving to those notes, or landing on them on a "one", that just sounds bad to me usually.

There is a few licks in those youtube videos that sound cool, but a lot of them sound like a guy who dosent know what he is doing BSing his way around the guitar. I know this isnt the case but thats just what it sounds like to me.

Maybe its just the sweatpants......

 

[ericb]

I dont think there is anything wrong with playing "wrong" notes at all. But there are tasteful ways of integrating it like a lot of fusion guys do, and then there is just taking it way too far. Thats how I feel about the Kaiser stuff.

Well, but that's just the thing, just because I don't enjoy those youtube vids doesn't mean Henry didn't do it intentionally. And this is where I get my back up, any one can dig or dislike what they want. But when guys get onto the assumption thing, that I don't get.

Oh no doubt about him doing this intentionally. I think what just rubs me the wrong way is the *way* he plays the wrong notes. He plays them as if they were right notes, if that makes sense. When I think of using "wrong" notes in a lick I think of them purely as passing tones just there to add tension or give a cool slinky kind of feel. You can stretch those out all you want, but when you start resolving to those notes, or landing on them on a "one", that just sounds bad to me usually.

There is a few licks in those youtube videos that sound cool, but a lot of them sound like a guy who dosent know what he is doing BSing his way around the guitar. I know this isnt the case but thats just what it sounds like to me.

Maybe its just the sweatpants......

Actually I like your post a lot.. It really makes sense to ME and my tastes. . I don't even own a pair of sweatpants btw .. lol... But we might be biased or conditioned to expect someone landing/resolving on the RIGHT note. . Why is it WRONG not to land on the RIGHT note? I'm being serious? It's just wrong for some tastes... Other people are sick and tired after 40 -50 years of rock guitar hearing the same riffs recycled over and over. . Seriously. . . I can definitely see and feel both views and many views in between

Eric

 

[Valtiel]

I dont think there is anything wrong with playing "wrong" notes at all. But there are tasteful ways of integrating it like a lot of fusion guys do, and then there is just taking it way too far. Thats how I feel about the Kaiser stuff.

Well, but that's just the thing, just because I don't enjoy those youtube vids doesn't mean Henry didn't do it intentionally. And this is where I get my back up, any one can dig or dislike what they want. But when guys get onto the assumption thing, that I don't get.

Oh no doubt about him doing this intentionally. I think what just rubs me the wrong way is the *way* he plays the wrong notes. He plays them as if they were right notes, if that makes sense. When I think of using "wrong" notes in a lick I think of them purely as passing tones just there to add tension or give a cool slinky kind of feel. You can stretch those out all you want, but when you start resolving to those notes, or landing on them on a "one", that just sounds bad to me usually.

There is a few licks in those youtube videos that sound cool, but a lot of them sound like a guy who dosent know what he is doing BSing his way around the guitar. I know this isnt the case but thats just what it sounds like to me.

Maybe its just the sweatpants......

Actually I like your post a lot.. It really makes sense to ME and my tastes. . I don't even own a pair of sweatpants btw .. lol... But we might be biased or conditioned to expect someone landing/resolving on the RIGHT note. . Why is it WRONG not to land on the RIGHT note? I'm being serious? It's just wrong for some tastes... Other people are sick and tired after 40 -50 years of rock guitar hearing the same riffs recycled over and over. . Seriously. . . I can definitely see and feel both views and many views in between

Eric

I definitely get what you mean. I can see how someone would get tired of the "same old same old" and maybe embrace this kind of style. And props to them for going against the grain, I guess im just not that jaded yet.

I can understand the point of view though, one of things I really like doing is really minimalist soundscape sort of stuff. I grew really fond of the style partially because my ears just like it and also because I found I was shaping my guitar playing around what other people thought was good. I eventually got fed up with not having my own voice and wanted something new. Thanks to a friend of mine who is friends with Steve Roach, I got ahold of a lot of his stuff and have since found my own *thing* mostly because I was sick and tired of years of rock guitar.

 

[stephen sawall]

No more wrong notes

Not for us.....
It's for the children.

I do not think you are going to find a lot of fans for this music.

Never meet a note I didn't like.
All the notes work.
What notes come before and after well effect them.

Just like words.

 

[Hectic Watermelon]

This just makes me hostile. Even when viewing a Jackson Pollock abstract expressionist painting, many regular viewers who see the huge chaotic paining hanging before them in person will sense some mastery and fluency, fluidity of expression just like that feeling you get watching your favorite players take a solo when you just become transfixed and completely lost in the magic of the moment -- as it is completely communicating to you.

I think the most significant failure of the 20th century so-called avant-garde composers is an arrogant attempt to entirely reinvent the language of music so that it becomes an expressive theoretical curiosity that is entirely irrelevant as a cultural statement or as one that communicates to a viewer. What is even worse is the arrogant “Who Cares if You Listen?” attitude of the academic composers as the title of Milton Babitt’s obnoxious essay goads.

When completing my master’s degree in theory and composition recently, I really learned such a deep respect for the 20th century avant-garde composers who were able to be daring, innovative, and highly abstract while ultimately conveying a sense of beauty, purpose and form in their work. I’m talking about the abstract European masters like Schoenberg, Stravinsky, Stockhausen, Zenakis, Varese, Boulez, etc. and the Americans like Ives, Cage, Crumb and then the postmodern era this-and-that-ism guys like Reich, Reilly, and Scott Johnson. The music is very dense and abstract, but very precisely crafted and executed.

On the contrary, I developed a severe hatred for the snotty, rich-boy bullshit like this that is a complete affront to my ears. It is the type of empty horseshit that attempts to masquerade as a serious abstract musical statement, when at best, it is a theoretical curiosity that communicates to only a small crowd of elite insiders who typically fancy themselves as specialists and cognoscenti. At the end of the day, you should not need to read program notes for a piece to be successful.

A poor kid off the streets will never have the opportunity to waste our time like this. It is always has to be some person from means who is the torturer, and THAT is perhaps my biggest beef with it all. We can’t validate and tolerate and excuse art where it is really just a metaphor for someone from the culture of power standing up there pissing and we have to call it wine. It’s like the Emperor’s New Clothes. To see this guy up there playing that sloppy shit through a Dumble is worse than the Big Spleef Daddy Rap guy stuffing a fist-full of dough in the camera while grinning with his diamond grill.

Wow…I’m gonna have to go listen to some David Torn or some others serious postmodern guitar to recover from this…sorry for the rant…

 

[degenaro]

This just makes me hostile. Even when viewing a Jackson Pollock abstract expressionist painting, many regular viewers who see the huge chaotic paining hanging before them in person will sense some mastery and fluency, fluidity of expression just like that feeling you get watching your favorite players take a solo when you just become transfixed and completely lost in the magic of the moment -- as it is completely communicating to you.

I think the most significant failure of the 20th century so-called avant-garde composers is an arrogant attempt to entirely reinvent the language of music so that it becomes an expressive theoretical curiosity that is entirely irrelevant as a cultural statement or as one that communicates to a viewer. What is even worse is the arrogant “Who Cares if You Listen?” attitude of the academic composers as the title of Milton Babitt’s obnoxious essay goads.

When completing my master’s degree in theory and composition recently, I really learned such a deep respect for the 20th century avant-garde composers who were able to be daring, innovative, and highly abstract while ultimately conveying a sense of beauty, purpose and form in their work. I’m talking about the abstract European masters like Schoenberg, Stravinsky, Stockhausen, Zenakis, Varese, Boulez, etc. and the Americans like Ives, Cage, Crumb and then the postmodern era this-and-that-ism guys like Reich, Reilly, and Scott Johnson. The music is very dense and abstract, but very precisely crafted and executed.

On the contrary, I developed a severe hatred for the snotty, rich-boy bullshit like this that is a complete affront to my ears. It is the type of empty horseshit that attempts to masquerade as a serious abstract musical statement, when at best, it is a theoretical curiosity that communicates to only a small crowd of elite insiders who typically fancy themselves as specialists and cognoscenti. At the end of the day, you should not need to read program notes for a piece to be successful.

A poor kid off the streets will never have the opportunity to waste our time like this. It is always has to be some person from means who is the torturer, and THAT is perhaps my biggest beef with it all. We can’t validate and tolerate and excuse art where it is really just a metaphor for someone from the culture of power standing up there pissing and we have to call it wine. It’s like the Emperor’s New Clothes. To see this guy up there playing that sloppy shit through a Dumble is worse than the Big Spleef Daddy Rap guy stuffing a fist-full of dough in the camera while grinning with his diamond grill.

Wow…I’m gonna have to go listen to some David Torn or some others serious postmodern guitar to recover from this…sorry for the rant…

I'll introduce you to Henry next week and you can tell him yourself...

 

[Hectic Watermelon]

This just makes me hostile. Even when viewing a Jackson Pollock abstract expressionist painting, many regular viewers who see the huge chaotic paining hanging before them in person will sense some mastery and fluency, fluidity of expression just like that feeling you get watching your favorite players take a solo when you just become transfixed and completely lost in the magic of the moment -- as it is completely communicating to you.

I think the most significant failure of the 20th century so-called avant-garde composers is an arrogant attempt to entirely reinvent the language of music so that it becomes an expressive theoretical curiosity that is entirely irrelevant as a cultural statement or as one that communicates to a viewer. What is even worse is the arrogant “Who Cares if You Listen?” attitude of the academic composers as the title of Milton Babitt’s obnoxious essay goads.

When completing my master’s degree in theory and composition recently, I really learned such a deep respect for the 20th century avant-garde composers who were able to be daring, innovative, and highly abstract while ultimately conveying a sense of beauty, purpose and form in their work. I’m talking about the abstract European masters like Schoenberg, Stravinsky, Stockhausen, Zenakis, Varese, Boulez, etc. and the Americans like Ives, Cage, Crumb and then the postmodern era this-and-that-ism guys like Reich, Reilly, and Scott Johnson. The music is very dense and abstract, but very precisely crafted and executed.

On the contrary, I developed a severe hatred for the snotty, rich-boy bullshit like this that is a complete affront to my ears. It is the type of empty horseshit that attempts to masquerade as a serious abstract musical statement, when at best, it is a theoretical curiosity that communicates to only a small crowd of elite insiders who typically fancy themselves as specialists and cognoscenti. At the end of the day, you should not need to read program notes for a piece to be successful.

A poor kid off the streets will never have the opportunity to waste our time like this. It is always has to be some person from means who is the torturer, and THAT is perhaps my biggest beef with it all. We can’t validate and tolerate and excuse art where it is really just a metaphor for someone from the culture of power standing up there pissing and we have to call it wine. It’s like the Emperor’s New Clothes. To see this guy up there playing that sloppy shit through a Dumble is worse than the Big Spleef Daddy Rap guy stuffing a fist-full of dough in the camera while grinning with his diamond grill.

Wow…I’m gonna have to go listen to some David Torn or some others serious postmodern guitar to recover from this…sorry for the rant…

I'll introduce you to Henry next week and you can tell him yourself...

No thanks.

 

[degenaro]

This just makes me hostile. Even when viewing a Jackson Pollock abstract expressionist painting, many regular viewers who see the huge chaotic paining hanging before them in person will sense some mastery and fluency, fluidity of expression just like that feeling you get watching your favorite players take a solo when you just become transfixed and completely lost in the magic of the moment -- as it is completely communicating to you.

I think the most significant failure of the 20th century so-called avant-garde composers is an arrogant attempt to entirely reinvent the language of music so that it becomes an expressive theoretical curiosity that is entirely irrelevant as a cultural statement or as one that communicates to a viewer. What is even worse is the arrogant “Who Cares if You Listen?” attitude of the academic composers as the title of Milton Babitt’s obnoxious essay goads.

When completing my master’s degree in theory and composition recently, I really learned such a deep respect for the 20th century avant-garde composers who were able to be daring, innovative, and highly abstract while ultimately conveying a sense of beauty, purpose and form in their work. I’m talking about the abstract European masters like Schoenberg, Stravinsky, Stockhausen, Zenakis, Varese, Boulez, etc. and the Americans like Ives, Cage, Crumb and then the postmodern era this-and-that-ism guys like Reich, Reilly, and Scott Johnson. The music is very dense and abstract, but very precisely crafted and executed.

On the contrary, I developed a severe hatred for the snotty, rich-boy bullshit like this that is a complete affront to my ears. It is the type of empty horseshit that attempts to masquerade as a serious abstract musical statement, when at best, it is a theoretical curiosity that communicates to only a small crowd of elite insiders who typically fancy themselves as specialists and cognoscenti. At the end of the day, you should not need to read program notes for a piece to be successful.

A poor kid off the streets will never have the opportunity to waste our time like this. It is always has to be some person from means who is the torturer, and THAT is perhaps my biggest beef with it all. We can’t validate and tolerate and excuse art where it is really just a metaphor for someone from the culture of power standing up there pissing and we have to call it wine. It’s like the Emperor’s New Clothes. To see this guy up there playing that sloppy shit through a Dumble is worse than the Big Spleef Daddy Rap guy stuffing a fist-full of dough in the camera while grinning with his diamond grill.

Wow…I’m gonna have to go listen to some David Torn or some others serious postmodern guitar to recover from this…sorry for the rant…

I'll introduce you to Henry next week and you can tell him yourself...

No thanks.

You really gonna judge some one off some 20 year old youtube clip?
Yeah know, at least give this a listen before you dismiss him...there's clips when you scroll down...
https://www.amazon.com/Yo-Miles-Henry-Ka ... 265&sr=8-1

 

[degenaro]

I dont think there is anything wrong with playing "wrong" notes at all. But there are tasteful ways of integrating it like a lot of fusion guys do, and then there is just taking it way too far. Thats how I feel about the Kaiser stuff.

Well, but that's just the thing, just because I don't enjoy those youtube vids doesn't mean Henry didn't do it intentionally. And this is where I get my back up, any one can dig or dislike what they want. But when guys get onto the assumption thing, that I don't get.

Oh no doubt about him doing this intentionally. I think what just rubs me the wrong way is the *way* he plays the wrong notes. He plays them as if they were right notes, if that makes sense. When I think of using "wrong" notes in a lick I think of them purely as passing tones just there to add tension or give a cool slinky kind of feel. You can stretch those out all you want, but when you start resolving to those notes, or landing on them on a "one", that just sounds bad to me usually.

There is a few licks in those youtube videos that sound cool, but a lot of them sound like a guy who dosent know what he is doing BSing his way around the guitar. I know this isnt the case but thats just what it sounds like to me.

Maybe its just the sweatpants......

True, to most folks resolving to out notes will tweak them hard. But just because we don't hear it like that, doesn't mean some one else might not hear this in all it's glory. Heck, some Monk stuff when I first came across it really killed my ears. Jazz guys playing -even just as a passing note-the major 7 over a dominant or minor 7 chord used to tweak me, now it is just fine.