What's going on with the used market?

[dirtyfunkg]

It seems like prices have really depressed--total buyers' market right now. I'm seeing a Road King for $1100 locally (Craigslist), a Pittbull UL on RT that hasn't sold yet for $1600 shipped, etc. More and more. Do you think this is going to last, or will things go back up?

I just find it amazing. I've had to bite my tongue/wallet not to just jump on what seem like amazing opportunities just for the sake of opportunity with the whole "Well, I'll at least break even if I decide I don't like it and want to sell it."

It seems like it's been going on since the middle of summer. I'm super perplexed by it. Seems too long to be the typical Christmas lull.

 

[rottingcorpse]

That's been going on for over a year. The used market will stay this way for a while, if not permanently.

Unless it's rare or a newer product, used gear goes for a little over half of new.

I have no idea what the percentages are, but most people balk at spending over 1200 for an amp. Most of the common gear names can be had for that. Fewer can justify a used diezel/Cameron/bogner/slo/peters, no matter how much they want one. And why should they? In most cases a used 6505/5150 or recto or mark3/4 or Marshall can get them where they are happy, and at a great price.


It's a buyers market. Great deals are out there. And it's about to get crazy with the holidays fast approaching. All sorts of choice stuff is about to get listed at great prices.

 

[sytharnia1560]

yeah its the same here in NZ as well. Generally the most you will get is 50% of retail unless its something special you are selling. It is pretty much impossible to sell anything here that isn't a known brand so boutique stuff just doesn't sell

 

[JackTripper]

It has been this way for years. And it’s not just the musical gear market that is in a rut, it’s a common theme in numerous retail markets and is tied to the broader economy. Cash is still tight for a lot of people. There has been wage stagnation and low inflation for some time, with deflation always looming. 401k’s may be booming, but that is untouchable money for most. Home equity is nowhere near pre-2008 levels. If your wages are not increasing, you will have less disposable income. And if you happen to be selling, the price you get will be dictated by what the market will bear.

Fuel prices are dropping and may stay low for some time through next year. This will free up household discretionary income. So it’s likely people will have more free cash in hand in the coming months (and energy companies will have less). Maybe that will translate into higher used gear prices, but I wouldn’t bank on it.

 

[thiswaythatway]

The market sucks. There's less and less younger players coming up, older players already have the gear they need, and Ebay and Paypal continue to butt fuck everyone with fees.

Also, the digital modelers have taken a decent share of the market now.

 

[jcj]

It's been stagnant for years; very little that's perceived as new and exciting, most of the serious buyers/sellers have already owned everything at least twice (me included), and it's a serious pain in the ass to sell anything....

It's gotten to the point that I'm almost completely apathetic about gear; even stuff I like isn't really tempting, (unless it's a complete giveaway) and even then, I usually won't bother.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

It's been depressed for quite awhile imo. What moves in the classifieds is very specific and priced accurately to sell (imo).

I notice some ads are listed with prices as if it was still pre-2008 and they just sit...

 

[eco70777]

i have a 3300 amp that i can't sell for 2200

 

[RJF]

Seems like the last few years used prices have been on a steady, slow descent. I remember when I Herbert/VH4 couldn't be found for less than $3K, now how many are just sitting for sale in the low $2K range.

Early 2ch Recto's seem to be rising though, up $200-400 compared to a year ago.

Bottom line is people don't have a lot of free cash anymore, the cost of living is continually climbing practically on a monthly basis and the fancy high dollar jobs aren't there in bulk anymore. Taxes keep climbing too. It will probably be like this for a while, until we get some real leaders that can take us into a positive direction and get this country going again.

 

[longfxukxnhair]

Seems like the last few years used prices have been on a steady, slow descent. I remember when I Herbert/VH4 couldn't be found for less than $3K, now how many are just sitting for sale in the low $2K range.

Early 2ch Recto's seem to be rising though, up $200-400 compared to a year ago.

Bottom line is people don't have a lot of free cash anymore, the cost of living is continually climbing practically on a monthly basis and the fancy high dollar jobs aren't there in bulk anymore. Taxes keep climbing too. It will probably be like this for a while, until we get some real leaders that can take us into a positive direction and get this country going again.

This right here.

Our money is doing less. Disposable income is down.

 

[El Mariachi]

I've been wondering/thinking the same thing. Glad to see this post here to hear other people's thoughts.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

The brand name stuff sells for lower dollar new and then doesn't seem to depreciate quite as much as the niche Bogners, Friedmans etc.. so if you buy a 1600$ Marshall and sell it a first time for 1200$ then someone else resells and sells it for 900$ , you aren't losing as much and you haven't spent as much. Drop 3500$ on an amp and expect to sell it in a bad economy... it is gonna sit even if it goes for 2500$ simply because if the 6-800 used market amps are brand name and do the job (Marshall, Peavey, EVH) within 10% of the more expensive amps, most people will just buy the 6-800$ amps that still sound great within their own right. I know I simply can't make a 2k+ amp purchase now.. Sure you can save over 2+ years but that would take restraint and who has that?! I think it is more of a gamble to buy niche/boutique right now should you not agree with it. Lots of Friedmans and Bogners in the classifieds it seems!

 

[Shask]

I agree that it has been bad for a long time now. I would even say years.

I think it is a combination of many things, and many of them were said in this thread. Economy of course, younger people not really into playing (more getting into Ableton Live, Plugins etc...), other expensive "toys" are holding our attention (iPad, iPhone, etc....), More people being satisfied with modeling whether it is Axe-fx, Kemper, Plugins, iPad, ... (I used to have 5-6 tube amps, now I mostly play an Axe-FX), Less people on forums in general (Facebook, Twitter killing forums...), Ebay sucking, Easy quick/safe options (Guitar Center used online), etc.... I am sure there is more.

I used to buy/sale all the time, but I have barely done anything in the last 2 years or so.

 

[petee]

I think there's two other things that haven't been addressed. Yes, the economy and disposable income are down, as well digital modelers and smaller class of new guitar players and their effect on the market. But, I also feel that people have settled down in the buying of the lastest and greatest gear, and are happy with current rigs. I also think there is stilll a huge glut of gear floating around that people bought in better financial times, that is now being unloaded and not replaced. This may be things actually leveling off to normal, at least until the economy starts working better for more people.

BTW, nice to be here, this is my 1st post. Ive lurked for some time, and enjoy the topics and opinions here. See ya around.

 

[Chris6870]

The way I see it is modelers and small amps and small cabs will move,the guys who only play at home and have some disposable income will always be buying those. The 'pro' level gear like your $2-3k heads and 4x12 cabs, not so much. I think it's due to there's not many places to use it and less and less guys who need it. Local live music is on a decline. Not that long ago there were many local bands,every guy had a half stack. Now if your even lucky enough to have a band that gigs, and you need pro level gear you probably already have it.There's not a whole new generation of kids starting bands that are in need of big gear.
I have two half stacks and don't use them because i don't play out anymore,I fire them up for fun once in a while but spend most of my time playing a Peavey Vip2 modeller late at night. If i needed the money my tube amps would be in the classifieds right now.

 

[RJF]

I don't know brokenfusion, if I can't play through a full stack with two 100w heads ran in stereo, then forget it, I'm bored. I don't play out either.

If I had to go back to little 2x12 combo modeller amps like I had when I was a kid..... forget it, I'm getting a new hobby.

For me as a collector, I'm not complaining about where prices are at today, because I'm a buyer 3 out of 4 transactions, but in the back of my head I'm hoping prices don't fall too far and kill my gear values on stuff I bought in the past, at market value then.

 

[El Mariachi]

I think there's two other things that haven't been addressed. Yes, the economy and disposable income are down, as well digital modelers and smaller class of new guitar players and their effect on the market. But, I also feel that people have settled down in the buying of the lastest and greatest gear, and are happy with current rigs. I also think there is stilll a huge glut of gear floating around that people bought in better financial times, that is now being unloaded and not replaced. This may be things actually leveling off to normal, at least until the economy starts working better for more people.

BTW, nice to be here, this is my 1st post. Ive lurked for some time, and enjoy the topics and opinions here. See ya around.

Well said and welcome to RT!

 

[dfrattaroli]

It's mostly the economy as has been stated. But musical gear is a small niche market in terms of the big picture. Something specific has happened in it IMO. Despite the economy being sluggish and people having less disposable income, new gear still seems to have sold over the last 5 years or so. Now, the used market is flooded with stuff people have fallen out of love with. Combined with the fact that people are spending less on used gear, this makes it especially hard to sell gear.

Over spending in general is an issue too. I know there are folks buying gear that's really out of their "pay scale". How do I know that? Because we're Americans and that's what we do. I live in a blue collar neighborhood in Queens NY and you can close your eyes and spit, and hit a guy in a BMW he's struggling to make lease payments on. I can take you to an area about half a mile from my house where there are rows of shitty looking attached-homes. No one appears to be able to afford to change the failing windows in the house but that sure is a nice C class in the driveway.

We consume new products. Then the used market catches the run-off.

 

[Chris6870]

Now, the used market is flooded with stuff people have fallen out of love with. Combined with the fact that people are spending less on used gear, this makes it especially hard to sell gear.

True. People will scrounge, save and sell to buy the hottest new amp, but two years later when it's old news it's going to flounder in the used market at a fraction of the price.

 

[BYTOR]

& yet I recently upgraded my Axe2 to the new Axe2 XL........the Axe2 that I sold, which I bought when it came out in 2011, I just got $2000 for it! That's just $200 under what I paid over 3 years ago....

Try buying any tube amp new & only lose 10% after 3 years......not gonna happen. More like 25-30% if you're lucky.

I still love me some tube amps( I got a BE100, 5153 Stealth & JVM Satriani) but it's definitely becoming a niche market.

Folks are just moving to the all in 1 wonder boxes.........I play my Axe2 & Kemper 95% of the time