Why it sucks to be a lead guitarist in the industry.

[Rob Tahan]

So ive been recording an album for the past month now and have gotten nothing but flamed for playing lead guitar.
Litterally got cussed out today over it by our producer, and told that "you know nothing about good music". "you listen to Dream Theater and Steve Vai". "Nobody cares about solos"...etc..etc... Welcome to the music business he says.
Its been nothing but an uphill battle.
I do realize that the reason there are "barely any good Christian rock bands anymore" is because the industry flushes them all down the toilet and makes them water down their playing and in even this case, CUTS the solos out completely.

 

[headlessdeadguy]

That sucks man I'm glad I'll never have to worry about that happening to me.

 

[SFW]

Tell him when he writes songs he can choose not to play a solo, but as long as you are playing your songs... he needs to stfu!

 

[Sixtonoize]

Last I checked, it's YOU paying the PRODUCER, not the other way around.
When he's footing the bill, he gets to say shit.
Since he's YOUR employee, he can shut the fuck up and spend more time worrying about getting the best possible sound quality.

 

[Anonymous]

So ive been recording an album for the past month now and have gotten nothing but flamed for playing lead guitar.
Litterally got cussed out today over it by our producer, and told that "you know nothing about good music". "you listen to Dream Theater and Steve Vai". "Nobody cares about solos"...etc..etc... Welcome to the music business he says.
Its been nothing but an uphill battle.
I do realize that the reason there are "barely any good Christian rock bands anymore" is because the industry flushes them all down the toilet and makes them water down their playing and in even this case, CUTS the solos out completely.

" A gentle answer turns away wrath" Be firm with him, but remind him that he is working for you
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly" If he is unreasonable, discuss the possibility of replacing him.

Keep up the good work! Prayers sent!

 

[Rob Tahan]

It's your record, fuck that producer. Producers don't care that you will have to live the rest of your life regretting what you didn't add to YOUR album. Don't forget that he is working for YOU. And btw let his loser ass know that dream theater (who I can't stand) , vai and others like them that solo, have sold more records than that producer ever will. I am a fan of good solos and too many bands are influenced by douche producers and cit their talent out of THEIR album. Don't let anyone push you around dude. I will call him and tell him to shut up if you want me to.

Lol.. These are all good points. And funny... Im just not sure if the label is putting him up to any of this though.. I know a lot of it is his "opinion", and the way he makes it sound, it seems like he has been given the authority by our label to run the show.
I was literally about to tell him to record all my parts when my band stepped in and took up for me.
Needless to say, ive stood strong on just about everything, but at the end of the day when hes mixing and mastering etc he could always cut my parts. That is why i tried to stay as cool as possible.

" A gentle answer turns away wrath" Be firm with him, but remind him that he is working for you
"Do not answer a fool according to his folly" If he is unreasonable, discuss the possibility of replacing him.

Keep up the good work! Prayers sent!

This is true, and EXACTLY what i did, and for whatever reason i still managed to get cussed out..
Its almost like a musical conspiracy to keep anything more than power chords out of mainstream Christian music. (one of the reasons i didnt wanna sign to that genre). Dont get me wrong, i wanna do things differently in this industry and be someone that kids can look up to as a player and believer, but things are not at all what they appear to be. Funny because he said the other day that he thinks that guitar solos are coming back.. I did however get to record a few good ones. Hopefully they wont get canned during the edits and mixes.

Thanks for the prayers bro!

 

[Gainzilla]

Sorry to hear this Rob and its definitely a double edged sword. Om one hand, you want to be you and express yourself the way that you do it best and on the other, you want to see some commercial success and unfortunately, they can be mutually exclusive ideals. I dont envy your position and thankfully, its not one that Ill ever be in!!!

Rex carroll is a huge foaveorite of mine and people go berserk to hear him play solos .... If The Lord didnt want you to solo, he wouldnt have blessed you with the ability to do so....

Best of luck to you and peace in your path

Kage

 

[glpg80]

id find another producer. no questions asked. go above his head.

there is no need in getting your blood boiling over a dickhead. as the saying goes - they pull you down to their level and beat you with experience.

just quietly thank him and be polite about his OPINION, then make sure he isnt working for you within the next.....24 hours.

be professional about it - and you will get outcomes.

they work for you and produce the album to your standards - not the other way around. whatever recording standards they uphold for themselves is why they are getting paid in the first place. there is a difference in offering helpful opinions for mastering/sections (if you even ask for them) and telling you who you can and cannot have influences by and also how to write your own damn songs.

he'd be fired in a heartbeat if he did that to me. and this would be after he got a major ass chewing face to face about respect being earned and not given.

 

[supersonic]

Hate to say he may be right. If he has credability as a producer you need to listen to him if you want to move numbers. If you don't care about selling to the masses solo away. From my experience a good producer knows best!

 

[JakeAC5253]

That really sucks what he said to you. I think he was out of line, but try to see it from his perspective. Studio engineers are under a lot of pressure from a number of different sources. He's got the artist who wants to tell him how to do his job and are often very exacting. I've heard horror stories of a producer calling the engineer I used to work for in the middle of the night while he was trying to grab what little sleep he could because they thought the harmony vocal was just a hair too prominent on the beginning of the key change. There is the amateur who wants the engineer to make them sound better than they actually are. There are the record companies which pressure a release even when the musicians who could care less. And last but not least he's got bills to pay and phonecalls to make. And all of this and he gets very little pay and recognition, rarely even a thank you.

I'm not trying to say you were wrong or he was wrong, but realize that it is easy to be spread thin in an industry such as his. He probably felt you were asking too much or were out of line and it probably just reached one of those points. I do wish he acted a bit more professional about it though. I would probably see if he brings it up at some point, I wouldn't just head off the situation as that would just end negatively for both parties. Give him a chance to come around. I don't know, I'm rambling at this point.

Sorry that happened bro. Good luck with your album

 

[glpg80]

Hate to say he may be right. If he has credability as a producer you need to listen to him if you want to move numbers. If you don't care about selling to the masses solo away. From my experience a good producer knows best!

it all falls back on how good you are as a musician, and also who is paying who here.

its a CD that he wrote with songs that he wrote, and they need to be recorded to be distributed to the public.

producers are the middle man here.

suggestions are nice, but forcing something against the original artist's intentions is beyond uncanting, its un-professional.

if you want to have your songs meet the producer's opinion, then let him do it his way.

if you want to write the songs you wrote and deliver it to the public as the artist - then replace him.

its simple logic. im sure no one has told the thousands of other lead solo's in classic rock songs and other genres that they didnt belong - otherwise you wouldnt be hearing them on the radio now would you?

 

[jcj]

So ive been recording an album for the past month now and have gotten nothing but flamed for playing lead guitar.
Litterally got cussed out today over it by our producer, and told that "you know nothing about good music". "you listen to Dream Theater and Steve Vai". "Nobody cares about solos"...etc..etc... Welcome to the music business he says.
Its been nothing but an uphill battle.
I do realize that the reason there are "barely any good Christian rock bands anymore" is because the industry flushes them all down the toilet and makes them water down their playing and in even this case, CUTS the solos out completely.

My favorite part of your story is the cursing and berating; dude sounds like a wonderful Christian to me

 

[Audioholic]

To offer different opinion and just scanning this post. I would just think of what market you are trying to break into, and if he does have a point or not. Sure its all your music, but if you are trying to make it and make money off of your music, perhaps someone who has experience making records that sell might be right about a few things. I am not sure what your situation is, and who the producer is or what you are tracking for though.

I try to do music for a living, often writing and composing for a publisher or company on the other end, and I get ALOT of feedback and requested changes and nitpicks and so forth all the time. I mean ALL the time. Its very frustrating after you put in lots of work. I have had to develop thicker skin when it comes to critiques. I hate it mostly, but often, specially if the person has great experience knowing what the end users will want, they steer me in a better end direction. Sure music is very very subjective and opinions are very very subjective.

Personally, I am not into solos, unless it is melodic and compliments the music as a whole. I don't gravitate towards shredders or ripping leads, and I much much prefer guitar work that flows and sits well with all parts, rather then a standout moment, especially in christian music. I only like solos if it absolutely works with the structure and buildup. The guitar solo still lives in certain music styles and songs, but I am glad that its not in everything anymore. Blasphemy I know.

On the contrary, I find it sometimes it takes just as much skill and thought, if not more to come up with blendable complimentary guitar parts, that while not shredding, is adding to the music, rythm type of solo work that works seamlessly.

of course it sucks when the person critiquing is being a douche

 

[Rob Tahan]

Hate to say he may be right. If he has credability as a producer you need to listen to him if you want to move numbers. If you don't care about selling to the masses solo away. From my experience a good producer knows best!

it all falls back on how good you are as a musician, and also who is paying who here.

its a CD that he wrote with songs that he wrote, and they need to be recorded to be distributed to the public.

producers are the middle man here.

suggestions are nice, but forcing something against the original artist's intentions is beyond uncanting, its un-professional.

if you want to have your songs meet the producer's opinion, then let him do it his way.

if you want to write the songs you wrote and deliver it to the public as the artist - then replace him.

its simple logic. im sure no one has told the thousands of other lead solo's in classic rock songs and other genres that they didnt belong - otherwise you wouldnt be hearing them on the radio now would you?

Exactly. And also, i was polite during the entire album and only tried to compromise the whole time. We went (past indie records)from having leads in every song that were pretty decent in length to only a handful of solos on the album that are in and out. There is a Huge compromise there to begin with. All this i expected on our album. But add on top of this.. dumbing it down and shortening them to the point of non-existence; then we have some things to discuss...
Believe me, we talked today about another producer, but it isnt that easy. Especially at this point in the game. The album is almost finished anyways. Im just hoping i dont get hosed when i leave town..

I have to disagree with the credibility comment. I have horror stories about this type of situation. Major label deal, credible producer. Took the project under his wings , and the proceeded to suck the life out of the band. Claimed songwriting credit on songs he had nothing to do with, erased all the drummers takes and made him program them on pads instead, changed the entire style of the band, and when they fought back , he threatened to tell the label they were being difficult, then he double charged the band for the recording because he made the guitarist redo ALL his guitar parts after threatening to bring in John 5 tondo all his parts. Meanwhile he kept billing the label for recording costs for a studio that was basically his house.

Sounds like my situation, and possible future situation.. Hopefully not though..


Also, for the record, most of the stuff is tasteful and fits well. No over the top shred except a few licks in some heavy songs. All the pop'y stuff there is either no lead or its something melodic and relatively simple.
I understand they need to sell records etc. .. But i also believe that people arent NOT going to buy an album because there are guitar solos on it. Its like they are scared of them or something...

 

[Greazygeo]

How come you don't play any rhythm guitar?

 

[steve_k]

The producer may feel that the excessive leads don't fit the genre of music being Christo-Metal. He shouldn't be criticizing your ability though.

Steve

 

[ke2]

Last I checked, it's YOU paying the PRODUCER, not the other way around.
When he's footing the bill, he gets to say shit.
Since he's YOUR employee, he can shut the fuck up and spend more time worrying about getting the best possible sound quality.

I was going to write more or less this, but instead, I'll just say: +1
Screw him. As long as you pay him, you could record a one-eyed chimpanzee playing the flute for what it matters...

 

[ACShreds]

my band and producer insist i play solo's and lead licks in our songs, its part of our sound. if you think about it there are less and less bands with great lead guitarists out there so the more solo's and cool guitar work that you write into your songs you're already being that more original than most of whats out there.

 

[phil b]

I know EXACTLY what you are talking about with your situation. Once upon a time the label we were dealing with had hired us a major producer at the time who literally just finished working with a band that is known for lots of solos and jams. We were all pretty psyched until we started tracking. The drums became "simplified" to say the least and all the guitar solos were now really tamed down as well. The A&R people were happy but we werent. It was great to finally be working with top name guys but its just that we as a band were changing into something none of us liked,right before our eyes. Sometimes in not as easy as saying " Hey, you work for me", when your basically working for the record co. The label was pleased with the roughs but we werent.Not every deal is the same obviously and this was a different time, but after all was said and done we finished the record, mastered it, and pretty much didnt want anything to do with it. Again, this producer at the time was pretty well known and his bands were all over mtv. Oh, and dont even get me started on publishing!!!

 

[supersonic]

It's hard to be a guitarist and look at a track with a non bias opinion. You need to ask yourself, Does it NEED that much guitar? Most of the time the answer is no. Less is more! Think of the most popular songs of all time, are they guitar virtuoso songs? No, they're a simple hook.