Why Modern Music Production Sounds like Ass....

[RaceU4her]

these weak ass drummers probably with thin sticks and shit

 

[DanTravis62]

these weak ass drummers probably with thin sticks and shit

VBF is not exaggerating at all unfortunately - I have quite a few younger guitar students that either have bands or are trying to start bands, and it's a huge problem if you're trying to play music "for real"

I went to a local show that was all teenage bands at the IOOF hall, and one of the drummers hit so softly you couldn't hear the snare drum over the guitarists tiny peavey bandit 110 combo amp. It was ridiculous. And it's not the only time i've seen something similar lately.

When I was a teenager the only time I heard someone drum like that, was when the bassist or singer or someone hopped on the drumset for shits and giggles.

 

[VonBonfire]

these weak ass drummers probably with thin sticks and shit

Stick size doesn't have a whole lot to do with it IMO. Current drummer uses average size 5A sticks and will rattle your cage on a Ludwig supra phonic. Then again his background was originally metal drumming. Back when I ran a blues jam downtown we had a twig armed girl show up to run sound, who was also a punk rock drummer, and crushed most of the dudes with intensity on the kit. Because of the proliferation of limp wristed drummers in the blues realm I often turned to rock and punk drummers before I had someone permanent, just to get someone who could provide adequate rim shots.

I went to a local show that was all teenage bands at the IOOF hall, and one of the drummers hit so softly you couldn't hear the snare drum over the guitarists tiny peavey bandit 110 combo amp. It was ridiculous. And it's not the only time i've seen something similar lately.

This is why I laugh at dudes who say 15 watts is all you need. They are obviously playing with drummers without any semblance of a rimshot.

 

[DanTravis62]

This is why I laugh at dudes who say 15 watts is all you need. They are obviously playing with drummers without any semblance of a rimshot.

The whole tgp "Grab n go" mindset was completely created by guys who don't actually play live music on guitar.

They either show up to open mic night at the coffee shop and show off their horrendous "comping" skills, or they show up to their local megachurch every sunday with the same PA, dialed in for their specific rig within an inch of it's life over months or even years.

Neither situation is remotely representative of what regular gigging players have to experience or deal with, and the situations that most people mean when they say "is this amp loud enough for a gig?"

They are minority cases that became the accepted internet wisdom because the P&W guys and the open mic night guys are the doctors and lawyers with half a million dollars of guitars in their "family pictures" of their gear in their McMansion™ and they get lots of likes on their pictures.

Unfortunately their terrible advice has wasted millions of people's money and time, because people think they are an authority because they have 35 private stocks.

 

[Shevek]

VBF is not exaggerating at all unfortunately - I have quite a few younger guitar students that either have bands or are trying to start bands, and it's a huge problem if you're trying to play music "for real"

I went to a local show that was all teenage bands at the IOOF hall, and one of the drummers hit so softly you couldn't hear the snare drum over the guitarists tiny peavey bandit 110 combo amp. It was ridiculous. And it's not the only time i've seen something similar lately.

When I was a teenager the only time I heard someone drum like that, was when the bassist or singer or someone hopped on the drumset for shits and giggles.

Man I have the opposite problem with my drummer! Just try to get him to lay back a bit for a quiet part. No fucking chance. I have hearing aids at 46 and it's his damn fault

 

[VonBonfire]

Man I have the opposite problem with my drummer! Just try to get him to lay back a bit for a quiet part. No fucking chance. I have hearing aids at 46 and it's his damn fault

I think the worst abuse my ears took was in the late 90s playing bass with a hard hitting drummer who had a Z crash. That thing was pure white noise, brutal!

 

[Speeddemon]

Man I have the opposite problem with my drummer! Just try to get him to lay back a bit for a quiet part. No fucking chance. I have hearing aids at 46 and it's his damn fault

Same here, well... tinnitus, not hearing aids yet.
But my drummer uses Paste Rude series cymbals and hits them hard too...

Luckily I have never had to endure a limp-wristed drummer, but the loud ones are annoying when you're the one getting yelled at by the sound guy to turn down your amp. "Well, if you provided adequate monitoring, I could maybe hear myself over Gonzo over there, yet here we are... "

 

[TheGreatGreen]

The whole tgp "Grab n go" mindset was completely created by guys who don't actually play live music on guitar.

They either show up to open mic night at the coffee shop and show off their horrendous "comping" skills, or they show up to their local megachurch every sunday with the same PA, dialed in for their specific rig within an inch of it's life over months or even years.

Neither situation is remotely representative of what regular gigging players have to experience or deal with, and the situations that most people mean when they say "is this amp loud enough for a gig?"

They are minority cases that became the accepted internet wisdom because the P&W guys and the open mic night guys are the doctors and lawyers with half a million dollars of guitars in their "family pictures" of their gear in their McMansion™ and they get lots of likes on their pictures.

Unfortunately their terrible advice has wasted millions of people's money and time, because people think they are an authority because they have 35 private stocks.

That’s not true at all, those guys give great real world advice.

Now if you’ll excuse me, I have to go make my rig sound like Jimi Hendrix, which according to those guys requires making the most extreme change you can make to a rig: changing my preamp tubes to really expensive NOS ones.

 

[DrewJD82]

I think the worst abuse my ears took was in the late 90s playing bass with a hard hitting drummer who had a Z crash. That thing was pure white noise, brutal!

These brutalized my ears far more than any of their crashes-

The things weigh as much as a damn kick drum.

 

[VonBonfire]

These brutalized my ears far more than any of their crashes-

View attachment 457667

The things weigh as much as a damn kick drum.

Just seeing those hammer marks made my ears start ringing. Aw hell no! A's, K's, and Constantinoples are more my style. My bro has the new beat hats for gigs that cut but dont maim, lol, sound pretty good.

 

[Drade76]

Is a more complicated question than I originally believed.



The quote about 1:45 in, that the human mind starts processing the sound as "data" rather than "music" once it gets to a certain level of perfection makes a ton of sense.

It's why "None So Vile" sounds so chaotically beautiful while Rings of Saturn sounds like a Mayo-on-white-bread sandwich.

BTW steve albini sucks

Interesting….

 

[nightlight]

... just to get someone who could provide adequate rim shots.


This is why I laugh at dudes who say 15 watts is all you need. They are obviously playing with drummers without any semblance of a rimshot.

Hahaha (sorry).

 

[DanTravis62]

Hahaha (sorry).

No but in all seriousness you do know what were talking about right?

 

[nightlight]

No but in all seriousness you do know what were talking about right?

Yes, we were talking about weak drummers. I was thinking rimshot when I should have been thinking rimjob, but I guess that's interchangeable.

 

[stephen sawall]

Rimshot can be as much as 130 dB's.

The numbers can be somewhat misleading. I can get 120 - 125 dB's with a THD Univalve 15 a amp rated 15 watts using a KT88 and Vintage 30 4x12. That's definitely not clean.