Why Modern Music Production Sounds like Ass....

[LeftOurEyes]

I have no idea what that is, so it's probably something new

As if you have an idea what you're talking about. You are stuck in the 80s.

 

[DanTravis62]

What I don't understand (and I've asked lots of drummers this question) is why is it sometimes the snare drum sounds more like a mix of a tom and snare. What I mean is, I don't like the marching band snare kind of tone in bands, but I like the more boomy snare sound. Is it just mic placement? Or are they turning the snare off or loosening it make it more like a side drum?

You're going to have to provide examples because i don't know what you mean here

I'm not sure if you mean big, low tuned snares (like lars ulrich or thomen stauch from blind guardian) or you mean the snares turned off like danny carey does all the time, or if you mean the snare sounds unnatural because they are using a sample replacement that sounds way too big and way too fake

 

[DanTravis62]

As if you have an idea what you're talking about. You are stuck in the 80s.

LOL fuck off, I was born in the 80s

 

[BABMusic]

You're going to have to provide examples because i don't know what you mean here

I'm not sure if you mean big, low tuned snares (like lars ulrich or thomen stauch from blind guardian) or you mean the snares turned off like danny carey does all the time, or if you mean the snare sounds unnatural because they are using a sample replacement that sounds way too big and way too fake

Thanks. Just for example, Take the last outro of Heart Shaped Box (video starts at the part I'm talking about). The snare sounds nice and poppy and full. It doesn't sound dry like if you're standing next to someone in a marching band who is pounding the snare. I'm wondering if it just sounds this way because its in the context of the band mix. Perhaps only some of the frequencies make it through in the mix and maybe that's why it sounds more round and full.

 

[DanTravis62]

Thanks. Just for example, Take the last outro of Heart Shaped Box (video starts at the part I'm talking about). The snare sounds nice and poppy and full. It doesn't sound dry like if you're standing next to someone in a marching band who is pounding the snare. I'm wondering if it just sounds this way because its in the context of the band mix. Perhaps only some of the frequencies make it through in the mix and maybe that's why it sounds more round and full.

I think you're talking about the compression of the snare (and the overheads) not the sound of the snare itself - that's what creates that "full" sound if you're talking about what I think you're talking about

 

[LeftOurEyes]

There's so, so few records with production I like the past couple decades.

So you are stuck in the 90s then, I see.

 

[BABMusic]

I think you're talking about the compression of the snare (and the overheads) not the sound of the snare itself - that's what creates that "full" sound if you're talking about what I think you're talking about

I think you are correct (I'm not sure because it's not my expertise). I was watching a live video the same song and it does sound slightly more like a marching snare in the live version. Whatever Albini did to record that snare sound, I like it.

 

[DanTravis62]

I think you are correct (I'm not sure because it's not my expertise). I was watching a live video the same song and it does sound slightly more like a marching snare in the live version. Whatever Albini did to record that snare sound, I like it.

Yeah I'm pretty sure the fullness you're talking about is simply from the compression on the snare/overheads or a combination of both

Nothing special, just a normal technique

 

[DanTravis62]

So you are stuck in the 90s then, I see.

The funny part is that you are obviously new here, because it's a well known meme of how much I hate 90s music

 

[LeftOurEyes]

The funny part is that you are obviously new here, because it's a well known meme of how much I hate 90s music

Not exactly new but I just don't spend any time here since I listen to different music than most on here. I mostly look around briefly at a few gear posts and thats it.

I have never paid any attention to remembering people on here besides 46and2 and technomancer because of their builds/mods. Sorry I dont have your like and dislikes memorized.

You were mentioning how great a lot of 90's production was a few threads back so thats all I know about you.

 

[VonBonfire]

So you are stuck in the 90s then, I see.

There are quite a few members stuck in 1985. To be honest at this point it's a helluva lot better than being stuck in 2026.

 

[BABMusic]

Just because something is newer doesn't mean it's better. Just look at woke policies, changes in language, cars, AI, etc. People are going back to the past because it made more sense. What is old, becomes new and fresh again.

 

[Speeddemon]

I think you are correct (I'm not sure because it's not my expertise). I was watching a live video the same song and it does sound slightly more like a marching snare in the live version. Whatever Albini did to record that snare sound, I like it.

What do you think of the snare sound in Judas Priest's "Freewheel Burning"?

Not the best example perhaps for a natural snare sound, but damn, does it sound glorious.
But I too prefer a more natural snare sound, with enough snare-'zing', but enough body and thump/punch as well.
One of the best snares I heard in a recording session I was assisting as an intern almost 25 years ago, was a Yamaha Oak Custom 12" deep snare. POWAH!

I hate that half snare-half tom sound as well, but in the same vein, I don't like the clicky kickdrum sounds that are hard to distinguish from the snare sound, so that discounts 80% of modern metal production.
Sure, well chosen compression can elevate a snare tone, but don't overdo it and let a snare sound like a snare!

 

[skoora]

Says the guy making a point that everyone disagrees with, and then says "nuh uh i didn't say that, you guys are taking me out of context"

In other news, dude from the OP dropped a new video that's just as good, specifically about drums

What’s funny is we were gating the shit out of kick, snare and toms back in the 90’s so we could have that manipulative control that wouldn’t have the cymbals and overheads get weird. You don’t want to use a gated reverb on drums with a lot of cymbal bleed. You also don’t want cymbals pumping with the compression your putting on the kick, snare a toms either.
He has some good sentiments but he’s not really accurate on the history of how it was done with 90’s examples. He’s really inferring more towards the late 60’s and early 70’s. 3-4 mics and let it all hang out with a good player.
Honestly, if you could have told us we could have killer kick, snare and tom sounds with no bleed we would have been stoked. But it’s all in how you put it all together. We were also in a studio with ability for great ambient tracks that really glue the kit together and often if a sample was used it was a clean hit of the actual drums, mixed back in top.

 

[skoora]

What do you think of the snare sound in Judas Priest's "Freewheel Burning"?

Not the best example perhaps for a natural snare sound, but damn, does it sound glorious.
But I too prefer a more natural snare sound, with enough snare-'zing', but enough body and thump/punch as well.
One of the best snares I heard in a recording session I was assisting as an intern almost 25 years ago, was a Yamaha Oak Custom 12" deep snare. POWAH!

I hate that half snare-half tom sound as well, but in the same vein, I don't like the clicky kickdrum sounds that are hard to distinguish from the snare sound, so that discounts 80% of modern metal production.
Sure, well chosen compression can elevate a snare tone, but don't overdo it and let a snare sound like a snare!

My favorite Napalm Death album (Enemy of the Music Business) has the most amazing drum recording, great sounding, cracking snare and the very next album the snare sounded so much like a tom that the kick and snare bled together. It was a night and day difference and really killed my enjoyment of that record, even though admittedly the songs were still great.

 

[BABMusic]

What do you think of the snare sound in Judas Priest's "Freewheel Burning"?

Not the best example perhaps for a natural snare sound, but damn, does it sound glorious.
But I too prefer a more natural snare sound, with enough snare-'zing', but enough body and thump/punch as well.
One of the best snares I heard in a recording session I was assisting as an intern almost 25 years ago, was a Yamaha Oak Custom 12" deep snare. POWAH!

I hate that half snare-half tom sound as well, but in the same vein, I don't like the clicky kickdrum sounds that are hard to distinguish from the snare sound, so that discounts 80% of modern metal production.
Sure, well chosen compression can elevate a snare tone, but don't overdo it and let a snare sound like a snare!

It has a nice thick thump to it, but there's quite a bit of added reverb giving it that 80s sound. Reminds me of the snare on Pink Floyd's 1987 album MTLOR.

 

[GearGasms]

To me, by far the worst sin committed in modern music production isn't the relentless quantization to the grid (although that sucks), it's not even the synthetic sounding autotune (although that's a real close second to the most annoying problem with modern production). The worst thing about modern production to me is that almost all producers mix all music so that vocals are at absolute max volume, crank the vocal faders to max and rip them off the board, while literally everything else in the mix sits at about 60% volume.

Also hey now that the vocals are 10x louder than everything else, let's take one more step and split the entire mix into two elements, "vocals" and "not-vocals," then let's put a compressor on the not-vocals mix and use the vocals as the sidechain source so the rest of the track will duck out of the way to the point of almost silence if the singer so much as blinks too loud.

Fuck. That. Shit. I hate it. It sounds like I'm listening to a TV commercial. It's boring, safe, neutered. It feels like somebody is on a dial going "whoa whoa we can't let the song get too exciting or energetic, gotta make sure the only thing the listener hears are the shitty lyrics the signer is singing. The guitars, drums, and bass are only there as a vehicle for letting the singer express some emotions about his girlfriend breaking up with him or whatever." It sucks.

Locking everything to grid and autotuning everything is also a horrible aspect of modern production and deserves all the ridicule it gets, but for me, the modern "vocals are the only thing that matters" style mixer/producer philosophy is particularly eggregious and needs to go.

I would like this post a million times if I could!

 

[DanTravis62]

What’s funny is we were gating the shit out of kick, snare and toms back in the 90’s so we could have that manipulative control that wouldn’t have the cymbals and overheads get weird. You don’t want to use a gated reverb on drums with a lot of cymbal bleed. You also don’t want cymbals pumping with the compression your putting on the kick, snare a toms either.
He has some good sentiments but he’s not really accurate on the history of how it was done with 90’s examples. He’s really inferring more towards the late 60’s and early 70’s. 3-4 mics and let it all hang out with a good player.
Honestly, if you could have told us we could have killer kick, snare and tom sounds with no bleed we would have been stoked. But it’s all in how you put it all together. We were also in a studio with ability for great ambient tracks that really glue the kit together and often if a sample was used it was a clean hit of the actual drums, mixed back in top.

I don't think he's saying that those 90s drum sounds were recorded with the 60s method, I think he's describing the history of drum recording up until the "beat detective" revolution

 

[skoora]

I don't think he's saying that those 90s drum sounds were recorded with the 60s method, I think he's describing the history of drum recording up until the "beat detective" revolution

But he keeps throwing in Quotes and examples from Nirvana, Grohl, Vig and Albini as reinforcement for what he’s talking about. He’s definitely saying you should embrace the bleed and messiness of the drums but that doesn’t really work for 90% of rock productions. I bet the first year a gate was adopted for studio use (later 70’s I think), it was used on a kick and snare drum.

 

[DrewJD82]

I think you are correct (I'm not sure because it's not my expertise). I was watching a live video the same song and it does sound slightly more like a marching snare in the live version. Whatever Albini did to record that snare sound, I like it.

You’re likely noting the differences you hear when bottom-mic’ing a snare and getting a lot of the actual snares ringing out, the little metal wires stretched across the head and are responsible for the “chhh” sound in a snare and not the “bop” sound of hitting a tom. If you don’t mic the bottom of the snare at all it’s harder to hear.

But there’s also some of what you said in your first post; guys like Danny Carey, Mike Portnoy and Brooks Wackerman turn their snares on/off during a song, so it’ll sound like a high pitched tom until they turn the snares back on. Portnoy’s sig snare has an On/mid-way/off setting for the strainer (basically a tuning machine for a snare) so he can utilize 3 different snare sounds live.

You don’t see Danny turn it on until later into the song here-