Diezel VH4. What's changed?

A local friend of mine had a 2005 which sounded great and I had a 2007 that sounded killer!! (Should have kept that one). A few years ago(maybe 2011) I bought a brand new "Blue Face" VH4 and it was just "meh" in tone and I was pretty disappointed and surprised how dull it sounded. So, what's changed since 2005/2007 VH4's?? Ive read other's commenting on similar opinions on years of production.

The hype - it receded.

Different tubes. A change in the voicing that isn't to your taste. It could be a few things.

MississippiMetal":cr894p12 said:

Different tubes. A change in the voicing that isn't to your taste. It could be a few things.

Click to expand...

Yeah, that must be it. Can't understand why Peter would change the voicing. Was this change(s) something that came from player request's....wanting something different?

Having not played a VH4 in years, I can only speak from what I've heard but apparently the voicing has become more modern in recent revisions.

Could be differences in a batch order of components or transformer builds. With the exception of the internal bias on the newer ones, nothing changed in the circuitry.

Do you know what tubes were in each amp?
I heard Adam Jones use a reissue blueface during a VIP session and it sounded good to me.
It is different than the old blueface but still the balls

steve_k":1328zpdz said:

Could be differences in a batch order of components or transformer builds. With the exception of the internal bias on the newer ones, nothing changed in the circuitry.

Click to expand...

What's changed about the bias?

MississippiMetal":25wxrwrc said:

steve_k":25wxrwrc said:

Could be differences in a batch order of components or transformer builds. With the exception of the internal bias on the newer ones, nothing changed in the circuitry.

Click to expand...

What's changed about the bias?

Click to expand...

All Diezel amps had external bias up until 2009 or so. Then they changed to internal bias.

I swear the newer VH4's are less compressed.

You need to ask Peter directly.
There were changes in the circuitry.


here:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=147822&hilit=vh4+changes#p1697173


There is no secret but the internet is a place for different stories.

There was a demand for more presence and less compression
in 2007 and we did some minor changes. You can copy the mod
turning up the presence control and reduce gain to get a similar
sound.

Some people make a big deal of that knowing to replace the right
part. Send me an email and if you can deal with a solder pen you
don´t have to pay big money.

From 1994 to 2007 the schematics may be a bit different because
we didn´t get some components anymore but the result was always
the same.

Simply speaking the VH4´s before 2007 are less bright but are
ready to dial in enough presence. Of course always depending
on tubes, guitars and cabinets.

I have a lot of early VH4´s on my workbench for re tubing and
I like every single unit. Some customers like the "presence mod"
some not. Just use your ears and dial in the amp. If you are happy
there is no need to hunt for the latest version.

In 2011 we switched to KT77 because the quality of most EL34 types
went bad. Some techs call the KT77 a high grade EL34. That´s true
and not true. The construction of the KT77 is very different to the EL34
and the KT77 has higher ratings. In my opinion is the midrange of the
KT77 more similar to the SED "Winged C" EL34 as the Chinese EL34.
The KT77 has less aggressive response than a EL34 but it's possible
to compensate that with a higher load an the output transformer and/or
higher plate voltage.

I think my hearing must be way off. I've owned an old Blueface VH4S and a 2007 VH4, and have played one of the new 2011 Blueface reissues.

I thought the early Blueface was much less gainy and much less compressed. And I actually thought it had LESS treble but MORE presence than the 2007 VH4, but maybe I just don't hear things right. VERY aggressive and pretty dry. Actually a difficult amp to play. It truly was best cranked up a bit, but once it was cranking it was pretty glorious. The 2007 and 2011 seemed about the same as each other. Gain was more saturated and it felt more compressed (for example, switching from channel 2 into channel 3, you could sorta feel the frequencies getting squished into a smaller band). Was easier to play because the notes would sustain when I was a bit sloppy (the Blueface, if you didn't hit that note right, it was gone and I looked/sounded like an idiot). And I thought it sounded more consistent from low to high volume. It lacked a raw-ness or vicious-ness compared to the Blueface (people complain that Diezel's don't cut through, that old Blueface could not be ignored). New ones seem more "polite," I thought. Maybe thumpier low end, too. This was all with the same V30 loaded Mesa cab.

EDIT: and none of these amps had external bias.

Double EDIT: they all sounded great, IMHO. If I couldn't play loud, I'd probably opt for a newer one because I did think it sounded more usable at lower volumes. If you can crank it to loud-ish drummer levels without guys complaining, then I'd opt for the old Blueface (if you could both find and afford it). They all sound like a VH4, though.

duesentrieb":1t8oxd12 said:

You need to ask Peter directly.
There were changes in the circuitry.


here:
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=147822&hilit=vh4+changes#p1697173


There is no secret but the internet is a place for different stories.

There was a demand for more presence and less compression
in 2007 and we did some minor changes. You can copy the mod
turning up the presence control and reduce gain to get a similar
sound.

Some people make a big deal of that knowing to replace the right
part. Send me an email and if you can deal with a solder pen you
don´t have to pay big money.

From 1994 to 2007 the schematics may be a bit different because
we didn´t get some components anymore but the result was always
the same.

Simply speaking the VH4´s before 2007 are less bright but are
ready to dial in enough presence. Of course always depending
on tubes, guitars and cabinets.

I have a lot of early VH4´s on my workbench for re tubing and
I like every single unit. Some customers like the "presence mod"
some not. Just use your ears and dial in the amp. If you are happy
there is no need to hunt for the latest version.

In 2011 we switched to KT77 because the quality of most EL34 types
went bad. Some techs call the KT77 a high grade EL34. That´s true
and not true. The construction of the KT77 is very different to the EL34
and the KT77 has higher ratings. In my opinion is the midrange of the
KT77 more similar to the SED "Winged C" EL34 as the Chinese EL34.
The KT77 has less aggressive response than a EL34 but it's possible
to compensate that with a higher load an the output transformer and/or
higher plate voltage.

Click to expand...

This^^^ Peter has stated multiple times he tweaked the circuit. IMO its for the better.

Glad to get some light shed on the subject. I had a hard time believing no preamp tweaks have been made on a 20 year old design. I have five prototype amps floating around in guitar land and I jump at the chance to re-evaluate any of them when they come in for service.

I owned a couple vh4, my first was 2003 model and i absolutey hated it.
My current is a 2013 model and i love it. The 2003 sounded dull to me, it had new tubes and no matter how much treb and pres i added i couldnt get it bright enough, very compressed and overall i just hated it. My newer amp has more pres and sounded brighter, more gain and less compressed. I see people say theres no change over the years but i have to disagree.