Strong hints that Van Halen 1 68 lead was just a slave amp and not the main amp.

[Amp_chaser]

I wonder if that bomb shell is still kickin’ around?

I think that’s the problem here…..no one cares enough about recreating VH1 to incorporate a big ass bomb shell in their rig.

apprently there was a josé load box inside. the one i'm trying to recreate. 1:10 ration transformer and 20ohm load resistor center tapped with a pot allowing you to control the line out level. however no proof about it :

 

[Amp_chaser]

View attachment 410137
View attachment 410138
View attachment 410139View attachment 410140View attachment 410141
just a tiny glimpse into my tone hunting experiences over the years.

it takes a special kind of dedication and suffering to arrive at a plug straight in cranked plexi’s pure dynamics and clarity at humane volumes, with sustain and single note girth and legato touch sensitivity minus the thin compressed high gain distortion artifacts.

selecting the right tubes, gtr/pickup, cab/speakers, reverb and delay times and sounds.

that's a very impressive and beautifull collection. A lot of people claim they have good results with jbl d120f i don't deny that you could achieve good results but from the testimonies i gathered it doesn't seem that those were used live or during the studio records. Moreover if everyone believes one thing, that can make you believe that this thing is right/true (sheep effect we are all affected to it, it's human nature some more some less) and your perception will be fooled. I myself was a hard jbl d120f defender i even had a website suggesting that those were the speakers used or another silver dome like the radioshack speaers. However recent elements (testimonies) and deep analyse of some pictures make me reconsider this. Eddie never claimed to have used them and in the met exposition about van halen 1; the cabs had no silver dome speakers.

Some of the closest tones i've heard were used by mixing pre rola 20w greenbacks with black backs g12h30 55hz this also coroborates with the research done with the flag systems cabs speakers used live and also with pictures of early van halen where you can see that the early pictures show no jbl d120f. And that for a little time before the records you had some there. However the testimony on a interview i can't remember the video the person said it clearly the 4th speaker of the second cab was too much so it was removed and replaced for other speakers that eddie didn't care about some of them were even blown and put them here that even explains why silver domes on them were completely beaten up... they were disconnected and they didn't care to destroy them.

see in van halen 2 there is no jbl d120f in the recording room but they brough cabs with them for the photo shooting that tells us a lot. that those cabs were perhaps there for show only.

 

[Devin]

Maybe I'm talking out of my ass here but I can't imagine removing a single speaker from a 4x12 will make any real noticeable difference in volume

 

[Amp_chaser]

Maybe I'm talking out of my ass here but I can't imagine removing a single speaker from a 4x12 will make any real noticeable difference in volume

yes that's why i aslo mentionned steve vai working with david lee roth. Perhaps that the full upper cab was just not connected at all. I don't know what was really going on the testimony just told in the interview that the speakers were dummy speakers and were blown or speakers ed didn't care about. He said it was done because it was too loud.

 

[SpiderWars]

While I think Amp Chaser is chasing a ghost there are some things that are true. VH1 sounds different. It could be JBLs but it also could be something else, or both. We are speculating. We don’t know.

At this point I’m OK with not knowing and with the prospect of never knowing. I know that the search has led me to a place where I’m happy with my tone.

Lastly, I hate to say it but some of the clips posted itt sound nothing like VH1. That’s not to say they didn’t sound good or weren’t a good rep of a cranked Marshall. But not VH1.

 

[RevDrucifer]

apprently there was a josé load box inside. the one i'm trying to recreate. 1:10 ration transformer and 20ohm load resistor center tapped with a pot allowing you to control the line out level. however no proof about it :

That definitely looks like a fun project!

Is your goal here to recreate the exact stuff Ed used back then, or whatever you can to get the tone, regardless if he used it or not?

 

[RevDrucifer]

that coroborates with what steve vai said about when he worked with david lee roth that a lot of cabs were there for psyhcological show/effect and that a lot of them were not connected because it would be too much for musicians to handle...

You sure about that? Vai said on the ToneTalk episode that DLR wanted shit crazy loud and he even had cabs under the stage that were powered. Satch also brought it up before, as Vai invited him to a NY show and Satch couldn’t believe how loud it was.

 

[RevDrucifer]

While I think Amp Chaser is chasing a ghost there are some things that are true. VH1 sounds different. It could be JBLs but it also could be something else, or both. We are speculating. We don’t know.

At this point I’m OK with not knowing and with the prospect of never knowing. I know that the search has led me to a place where I’m happy with my tone.

Lastly, I hate to say it but some of the clips posted itt sound nothing like VH1. That’s not to say they didn’t sound good or weren’t a good rep of a cranked Marshall. But not VH1.

Man, you can move a mic a 1/4” and entirely change the sound coming out of it. There’s a certain amount of detail that unless you were there, is never going to be known. And there’ll be 100 different ways of achieving the same results that no one will ever agree on.

And in the context of discussing a tone in a mix…..well, what we end up hearing is so depenadant on what the other instruments are doing and what space they’re taking up in the mix that it’s a crapshoot to get to the actual tone that was coming out of his amps. I know people like talking about those overhead mics as the ultimate source material, but it’s not like those don’t alter the tone either.

 

[Devin]

You sure about that? Vai said on the ToneTalk episode that DLR wanted shit crazy loud and he even had cabs under the stage that were powered. Satch also brought it up before, as Vai invited him to a NY show and Satch couldn’t believe how loud it was.

I also remember him saying exactly that

 

[RevDrucifer]

I also remember him saying exactly that

He says it right here-

(timestamped)


“Because for Dave, for Roth, my guitar just couldn’t be loud enough”

 

[311boogieman]

View attachment 410139

Wasn't that Zachman's rig? Or are some of those yours? How is he doing these days? Is that shop still around?

Ok . This is PROOF . Found the pic of Ed’s Boogie . Middle right shows Ed’s Mesa . Someone said it’s photoshopped . That’s BS . Photoshop didn’t exist then so that’s impossible View attachment 410112

Now I've seen it all. You know, one can photoshop any photo. You don't photoshop it in the dark room

BREAKING NEWS: the Edstein files have been fully leaked, confirming suspicious there were no JBLs used on VHIII either. Gary Cherone could not be reached for misguided speculation on the VH1 recording sessions. More to follow on this developing story…

This will all come to light in Ghislaine Maxwell's retrial, along with Ed's Boogie

 

[Amp_chaser]

He says it right here-

(timestamped)


“Because for Dave, for Roth, my guitar just couldn’t be loud enough”

well my memories were wrong about this however i'm not a steve vai expert. I will then correct my past statement then.

 

[Amp_chaser]

Marshall plexi's and Superleads ran into a Jose Load box then slaved to what ever secondary amps they could get their hands on for the tour, Marshall 100 watt supreleads and Musicman HD130 and HD65. This has already been covered in all of your previous threads.

The fact is any good 68, 69, 70, 71 Superlead gets the tones. How do we prove this out? Well..... since Ed lost all of his personal amps coming back from the Japan leg of the 78 tour until December 1978 that's how. So from July to December he was using whatever Marshall amps he could get his hands on, and it still sounded as good or maybe even better than VH1 recorded tones.

​

June 10, 1978	London	Hammersmith Odeon
June 11, 1978
June 17, 1978	Tokyo	Japan	Tokyo Cultural Hall
June 19, 1978
June 21, 1978	Nakano Sun Plaza Hall
June 22, 1978
June 24, 1978	Nagoya	Nagoya Civic Assembly Hall
June 25, 1978	Osaka	Festival Hall
June 27, 1978	Osaka Cultural Hall
July 1, 1978	Dallas	United States	Cotton Bowl (Texxas Jam)
July 2, 1978	San Antonio	San Antonio Municipal Auditorium
July 3, 1978	Austin	Armadillo World Headquarters

[th]
Asia

[/th]
[th]
North America

[/th]​

The Selland Arena and Niagara Falls shows both with killer tones equal to VH1 were done with replacement Marshall heads and Musiman HD130 and HD65 as power amps. Dave Friedman admits this in his most recent interview with Jim Gaustad but we can see this in these videos. I own a Musicman HD130 and I guarantee Ed isn't getting his main tone from one. As a power amp it works very well and the Musicaman amps interestingly enough ran 6CA7 power tubes.

​

September 8, 1978	Niagara Falls	Niagara Falls Convention Center [65]
September 9, 1978	Baltimore	Baltimore Civic Center
September 10, 1978	New Haven	New Haven Coliseum
September 12, 1978	Indianapolis	Indianapolis Convention Center
September 14, 1978	Detroit	Cobo Arena
September 15, 1978	Richfield	Richfield Coliseum
September 16, 1978	St. Louis	Checkerdome
September 17, 1978	Kansas City	Kansas City Municipal Auditorium
September 18, 1978	Tulsa	Tulsa Assembly Center
September 22, 1978	Fresno	Selland Arena

Now you have the pulling V4 V5 theory that Jim Gaustad proposes and it does sound pretty damn good. Maybe you should pull V4 and V5 and see what you get.

Sometimes one has to apply the Occam's Razor principle and accept what is right in front of them.

And then you just have what a 1968 Marshall plexi sounds like.....

i just found out this video of the testimony of zeke clark that is only one year old... Another new testimony of a tech claiming josé modded the head and multiple heads for eddie. Since ed died things are oppening and people are opening their mouths or releasing new infos...



zeke clarks claims that josé modded eddie's head... another new testimony. part one he even mentions josé to have modded the 68 lead or the main amp :

 

[harddriver]

apprently there was a josé load box inside. the one i'm trying to recreate. 1:10 ration transformer and 20ohm load resistor center tapped with a pot allowing you to control the line out level. however no proof about it :

The man speaking and playing in the video is Mark Cameron, an amp builder and tech who worked at the music shop that took over all the amp inventory from Jose Arrendondo's repair shop after he died. He has probably seen more Jose modded amps than just about anyone. Mark also subscribes to the mostly stock plexi circuit possible with some tweaks but still a two gain stage plexi not cascaded. You probably think he is an idiot as well since he doesn't agree with your theories. According to Mark that is a true blue Jose load box that was in Jose's shop similar to what Ed was using. Mark always maintained the amp was pretty much stock and you hear him saying that in the video.

If you don't know who Mark Cameron is look him up.

If Ed's amp was Jose modded with the master volume control why would he need the load box only to slave to other amps, he would have just used the Master volume control and not need to load down the amp to lower the volume for clubs playing and drag all those extra amps around with him.

You continually bebunk your own theories... but please carry on. Jose modded or maintained doesn't mean cascaded gain modded. Mark Cameron said Jose showed Ed how to load down an amp and slave it to another amplifier which is undeniable from the early club days and the 78 tour with all the extra amps. Something Ed continued through to his Bob Bradshaw rig for Diver Down and 5150.

 

[Amp_chaser]

The man speaking and playing in the video is Mark Cameron, an amp builder and tech who worked at the music shop that took over all the amp inventory from Jose Arrendondo's repair shop after he died. He has probably seen more Jose modded amps than just about anyone. Mark also subscribes to the mostly stock plexi circuit possible with some tweaks but still a two gain stage plexi not cascaded. You probably think he is an idiot as well since he doesn't agree with your theories. According to Mark that is a true blue Jose load box that was in Jose's shop similar to what Ed was using. Mark always maintained the amp was pretty much stock and you hear him saying that in the video.

If you don't know who Mark Cameron is look him up.

If Ed's amp was Jose modded with the master volume control why would he need the load box only to slave to other amps, he would have just used the Master volume control and not need to load down the amp to lower the volume for clubs playing and drag all those extra amps around with him.

You continually bebunk your own theories... but please carry on. Jose modded or maintained doesn't mean cascaded gain modded. Mark Cameron said Jose showed Ed how to load down an amp and slave it to another amplifier which is undeniable from the early club days and the 78 tour with all the extra amps. Something Ed continued through to his Bob Bradshaw rig for Diver Down and 5150.

harddriver did you even watched the video where zeke clark testifies...

zeke is not a dumb guy he knows about electronics and servicing guitar amps he had full access to eddie's gear and he states what josé stated.

he evens says the ot was directly connected to a variac. This explains the dual variac setup...

this interview came out last year, and i just found it today however it did not gain a lot of attention. It confirms josé did indeed rebuild the entire marshall head...



they probably had someone working directly with the evh team to bring the amp back to stock when eddie brought the amp outside to non van halen crew members...

 

[Amp_chaser]

The man speaking and playing in the video is Mark Cameron, an amp builder and tech who worked at the music shop that took over all the amp inventory from Jose Arrendondo's repair shop after he died. He has probably seen more Jose modded amps than just about anyone. Mark also subscribes to the mostly stock plexi circuit possible with some tweaks but still a two gain stage plexi not cascaded. You probably think he is an idiot as well since he doesn't agree with your theories. According to Mark that is a true blue Jose load box that was in Jose's shop similar to what Ed was using. Mark always maintained the amp was pretty much stock and you hear him saying that in the video.

If you don't know who Mark Cameron is look him up.

If Ed's amp was Jose modded with the master volume control why would he need the load box only to slave to other amps, he would have just used the Master volume control and not need to load down the amp to lower the volume for clubs playing and drag all those extra amps around with him.

You continually bebunk your own theories... but please carry on. Jose modded or maintained doesn't mean cascaded gain modded. Mark Cameron said Jose showed Ed how to load down an amp and slave it to another amplifier which is undeniable from the early club days and the 78 tour with all the extra amps. Something Ed continued through to his Bob Bradshaw rig for Diver Down and 5150.

for all the amp guru believers... or they were under nda or they were fooled by an amp brought back to stock before going to their shops.

"Jose just um started with the head the Marshall head and uh basically rebuilt the Marshall head uh to what Edward Van Halen sound like we're going to build something that is totally different from everybody else is but it's just like uh designed especially by and for and with Edward Van Halen which uh someday soon I'm sure that we we'll get on the market once we get it done where he's to keep it on changing it and and trying different things and different combinations where we don't even know (07:27) when it's going to be done yet or whatever but the day it is done it's going to be something that uh that the world would enjoy and have fun with"

we were robbed of this amp in development... eddie and josé wanted to release it for everyone...

https://www.guitarworld.com/news/dave-friedman-jose-arredondo-eddie-van-halen-mystery-amp

He also explains why there were 2 variacs sometimes : a mystery that people on the metroforums never were able to solve. they used a variac directly on the output transformer...

now we have enough evidence and proof that yes it was completely non stock.

this also confirms what peggy said about sunset sound known to not alter people's original tone. This also confirms that jim gaustad was getting close because he used a lot of eq using the same devices that were on the studio. however that's not the original way despite sounding close and good there was always a lack of asymetrical distortion and bloom.

for those wondering what humbuckers did eddie used ? in part 1 of those 2 videos, the answer : multiple franken humbuckers. zeke even says that eddie took half coils of humbuckers he liked and mixed them... making litteral franken humbuckers...

no wonder why this tone is impossible to duplicate it had nothing conventionnal it was more like a mad scientist lab gear => frankenstein...

this explains probably why he called his guitar like that haha. but ed was the real doctor frankenstein of electric guitar and guitar amps.

 

[ZEN Amps]

no wonder why this tone is impossible to duplicate

There are too many variables for any album tone to be exactly replicated at a later time, but many have gotten pretty close. Haven't read through this thread but the one from Jan (and probably many before) objectively demonstrates this.

I get that you're deep in some rabbit hole on this, but your claims don't seem to stack up man. Just get out there and play more, the 'tone' will follow.

 

[Amp_chaser]

There are too many variables for any album tone to be exactly replicated at a later time, but many have gotten pretty close. Haven't read through this thread but the one from Jan (and probably many before) objectively demonstrates this.

I get that you're deep in some rabbit hole on this, but your claims don't seem to stack up man. Just get out there and play more, the 'tone' will follow.

mh but zeke clark explains it clearly.

it was written multiple times that VH1 were 2 amps.

even if i had multiple theories it makes more sense now that i discovered that final piece of the puzzle in that video.

The OT voltages directly controlled by a variac could only be created by an external power amp that's why they needed another marshall amp.

what they did was using variac A on the 68 lead to lower b+ but used the variac B on the second amp which b+ was connected to the center tap of the OT of the 68 lead.

this would allow you to raise or lower the OT voltages of the 68 lead while keeping the overall b+ of the 68 lead lower.

this is an extremely unstable setup when those voltages are unbalanced it leads to OT and tube arcing and replating. this really makes much more sense and would explain why 2 amps on VH1.

this could even add bloom if the amp B is tube rectified.

however even today there is almost no way to make this amp and setup safe to sell that's probably why their idea to mass produce and sell it never hit the market... it would be too unstable. That's probably why this was only used once in the studio and not kept live.

 

[Kelly]

The only real mystery about EVH's Marshall at this point is how the Rose Palace got a '68 Super Lead in the first place. Leftover from Jeff Beck's tour, maybe?

 

[mentoneman]

that's quite very intersting. He was probably doing a lot of things right, Just by reading what you've written. G12h are also probably a big factor into ed's tone. Holmes pickups ?

vic called gh30s the anti harsh speakers.
he won me over to the holmes thing one day when i was at his shop and one of his customers brought in a vintage marshall. guy had a mcinturff gtr and claimed his amp was missing some plexi magic and wanted vic to mod it for vh tones. guy goes “strum strum” and it sounded cold and thin.

vic plugs in his holmes loaded strat and BA-WANG!!! huge and totally in the brown ballpark.
guy was in shock.

“nothing wrong with that amp dude..may wanna change the gtr/pus.”