Anyone score a Zzounds 2203x blowout?

[The~Kid]

Bro. No

This is the problem. No attenuation. you don't need 35 overdrive pedals

This is why everyone is saying you haven't actually experienced this before

There are some things like a 5150 type amp, that basically sound good at any volume, even lower because most of the goods are in the preamp section

This is not the case with an 800, or a hiwatt, or even an SLO in my opinion

You need to turn them up to like at least HALFWAY on the master volume, no distortion pedal allowed and just rip

I mean I understand why many like them but for me as is they just don't pack enough preamp gain and I feel they can get a bit flabby in that sense in general relative to other stuff.

I may check one out again and blast it higher than that to SEE/Hear whats up but in general i just think I don't really dig them and thats fine too and they just arent My thing and arent My thing. I prefer something like a 5150/6505, BE100, SmallBox etc etc or other amps mentioned that just have higher gain in general.

 

[DanTravis62]

I mean I understand why many like them but for me as is they just don't pack enough preamp gain and I feel they can get a bit flabby in that sense in general relative to other stuff.

I may check one out again and blast it higher than that to SEE/Hear whats up but in general i just think I don't really dig them and thats fine too and they just arent My thing and arent My thing. I prefer something like a 5150/6505, BE100, SmallBox etc etc or other amps mentioned that just have higher gain in general.

That's totally fair if it isn't your thing - I was just making the point that it's not the same thing as a JEL or other higher gain version of an 800

With vintage amps the whole "thing" is that they need to be pretty juiced to get the goods

 

[The~Kid]

That's totally fair if it isn't your thing - I was just making the point that it's not the same thing as a JEL or other higher gain version of an 800

With vintage amps the whole "thing" is that they need to be pretty juiced to get the goods

Dude here gets some good tones out of em and I'm not saying I don't dig that but yeah, I mean just being honest Even as dude mentions it's kind of hard to dial in without some extra Boost or help but yeah.


I mean yeah modern iterations with more gain arent exactly like a JCM800 and I agree there and they are modern takes on an 800. I mean there are aspects I like yes but just not enough gain for me in the preamp. Like there is a certain hair to an 800 and top end sizzle of course that I do love and well thats what I like about the character of the amp in essence..... That "Appetite for Destruction" tone for me and yeah it's not Bad and well I can see why many like the amp in it's essence and no wonder many have their take on it.....


So I like it but I don't..... And it's complicated but the amp aint so Bad as I made it out to be

 

[Greazygeo]

2203’s were great when they could be bought for $250-350. They sounded terrible, but could have the power sections modded and with power amp in jacks could be used as power amps. Slaving a plexi thru some effects and into the 2203 power amps worked ok.

Recently picked up another ‘78 2203…..ah, the familiar tone haha…will mod it one of these days.

 

[NeubyWanKaneuby]

LOL! Awesome. I rolled my Plexi out of my parents garage back in the day and it could be heard a couple miles away through the woods when cranked. I've thought about cranking my Twins on the porch for 4th of July star spangled banner action. It'd probably travel four miles down to Valero since I'm up on a vantage point, LOL.

Do it!

 

[67mike]

A cranked DR103 is a thing of glory, 100% but it's seriously dangerous volume levels

I cranked mine up in my garage to record some clips and the 711 two and a half blocks away were the ones who called the cops for the noise complaint

It's such an amazing sound but you'd have to be fucking nuts to be one of the "gigs with one" guys. If i had to do it over, i'd do a 504 like @67mike

Same tone, just a little bit easier to handle

My DR 504 full stack was so loud it shook bottles off the bar shelves in my basement!

 

[67mike]

2203’s were great when they could be bought for $250-350. They sounded terrible, but could have the power sections modded and with power amp in jacks could be used as power amps. Slaving a plexi thru some effects and into the 2203 power amps worked ok.

Recently picked up another ‘78 2203…..ah, the familiar tone haha…will mod it one of these days.

 

[Racerxrated]

2203’s were great when they could be bought for $250-350. They sounded terrible, but could have the power sections modded and with power amp in jacks could be used as power amps. Slaving a plexi thru some effects and into the 2203 power amps worked ok.

Recently picked up another ‘78 2203…..ah, the familiar tone haha…will mod it one of these days.

Terrible?

What years? I know you've had a ton of experience George, but I don't understand the terrible part. Compared to a healthy 1959 they can fall short, but not THAT short. And, they do need some help for more gain depending on what you want to play.
I don't know man, I've had some pretty killer 82/83 2203s that peeled the paint off the walls with plenty of thump and easily wiped the floor with most modded Marshalls/Friedmans I've tried, with just an SD1 in front. And, even compared favorably to the Wizard MC100 I had, and preferred them to the 1 Wizard MTL I had. That MTL just didn't have any mids to my ears. Very hollow. The MC was better.
But I'd still pick the 82 2203 I had over both of those Wizards in the end.

 

[Greazygeo]

View attachment 446028

Genious you must be..

 

[Greazygeo]

Terrible?

What years? I know you've had a ton of experience George, but I don't understand the terrible part. Compared to a healthy 1959 they can fall short, but not THAT short. And, they do need some help for more gain depending on what you want to play.
I don't know man, I've had some pretty killer 82/83 2203s that peeled the paint off the walls with plenty of thump and easily wiped the floor with most modded Marshalls/Friedmans I've tried, with just an SD1 in front. And, even compared favorably to the Wizard MC100 I had, and preferred them to the 1 Wizard MTL I had. That MTL just didn't have any mids to my ears. Very hollow. The MC was better.
But I'd still pick the 82 2203 I had over both of those Wizards in the end.

Any of them, I hate 2203’s always have. Hate the feel and tone, also don’t like them recorded. Plenty enough gain as they are, tone and feel no thanks. Like I said as a power amp they can be ok. Have had enough and worked on plenty of others, not a fan. Sure they can peel paint, can’t say that is an attribute in an amp I search for.

That said, back in the early 90’s when I took plexis and modded them similar to a 2203 I could get them to sound ok, but still not what I wanted to hear or feel without slaving etc.
The plexi style preamp sounds way better even stock, but does need a bunch of tweaks for me to be happier with them. Still not 100% happy by any means, but pretty good sounding.
Picked up a 78 2203 for $500.00 not long ago. Will mod it one of these days for fun. Hard to believe people pay what they pay for these now…
If you are happy with them, that is great. Glad you are happy with them.

 

[Bloodrock]

I remember Angus saying years ago that a Marshall amp turns your guitar into a percussion instrument. Always thought that was a cool take. Nothing else really punches like a cranked marshall. Not even high dollar mods or boutique brands i've tried can compete with a Marshall and a boost in the end for me.

 

[311boogieman]

I remember Angus saying years ago that a Marshall amp turns your guitar into a percussion instrument. Always thought that was a cool take. Nothing else really punches like a cranked marshall. Not even high dollar mods or boutique brands i've tried can compete with a Marshall and a boost in the end for me.

But have you ever attenuated one with a DS1?

Yeah, I read further into the thread on the Marshall form and it looks like it was a mistaken price and they did cancel everything.

Sounds like a bait and switch

 

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

I remember Angus saying years ago that a Marshall amp turns your guitar into a percussion instrument. Always thought that was a cool take. Nothing else really punches like a cranked marshall. Not even high dollar mods or boutique brands i've tried can compete with a Marshall and a boost in the end for me.

The superlead was an amazing circuit that did a suprising thing when pushed to its limits. But when it got there, the magic happened. They tried to tame it with the 800, but ended up kind of making another cool thing. Now a good amount of the amps we use try to recreate one of those circuits with different flavors.

 

[rstites]

That's the reason why @Racerxrated and others are like "grasshopper go play one" because it's a really wildly different guitar experience, especially loud as fuck with a whole band rocking out

The band is key too. A 2203 on it's own needs volume to sound great, but even then it's pretty ear-piercing on its own. However, once you get the toms and snare going, what's left is exactly what sets nicely above them. Hence, why so many idiots clip out out the bright cap - well that, and they don't turn the gain up. Why the hell buy the 2203 if you don't want to turn up the gain a bit? I mean, the 1959 is right there and sounds glorious already.

Playing an old 2203 is a lot like driving a tuned up muscle car. Don't complain about them not handling curves so well, or braking all that great - especially for the power, or having fancy interiors, or being loud, etc. etc. They do one thing really well and as you try to do other things, you're just fighting them. Move to something else if it isn't what you want.

However, claiming they don't have balls is asinine. Those old Marshall 100W amps (both the NMV and MV) are the very definition of balls in a guitar amp. Just remember that if you aren't doing serious hearing loss to yourself, you aren't really experiencing them doing what they're designed to do. Also, attenuators aren't the answer. There's an entire tone component to the acoustic feedback/reinforcement you get at volume with them, not to mention distorting the speakers. You don't get either of those with an attenuated amp.

 

[DanTravis62]

The band is key too. A 2203 on it's own needs volume to sound great, but even then it's pretty ear-piercing on its own. However, once you get the toms and snare going, what's left is exactly what sets nicely above them. Hence, why so many idiots clip out out the bright cap - well that, and they don't turn the gain up. Why the hell buy the 2203 if you don't want to turn up the gain a bit? I mean, the 1959 is right there and sounds glorious already.

Playing an old 2203 is a lot like driving a tuned up muscle car. Don't complain about them not handling curves so well, or braking all that great - especially for the power, or having fancy interiors, or being loud, etc. etc. They do one thing really well and as you try to do other things, you're just fighting them. Move to something else if it isn't what you want.

However, claiming they don't have balls is asinine. Those old Marshall 100W amps (both the NMV and MV) are the very definition of balls in a guitar amp. Just remember that if you aren't doing serious hearing loss to yourself, you aren't really experiencing them doing what they're designed to do. Also, attenuators aren't the answer. There's an entire tone component to the acoustic feedback/reinforcement you get at volume with them, not to mention distorting the speakers. You don't get either of those with an attenuated amp.

Couldn't possibly agree with this more.

So my original punk band probably plays 30-35 gigs a year, every year. We play all over the PNW, with all sorts of original bands - mostly punk, hardcore, thrash, but also some post-hardcore, emo, stuff like that. So we probably play with close to 100 original bands a year.

I would say a pretty easy 4 out of 5 of them play a 2203 or 800. Yes, there's pedal guys with twins, and yes there are a handful of rectos, and a smattering of plexis and marks. But by far the most common amps are 800s of some flavor. Sometimes guys will have a klone or an 808, sometimes not.

But it's almost always an 800. They absolutely kill in a band situation, cranked up with everyone playing loud and hard.

 

[67mike]

Couldn't possibly agree with this more.

So my original punk band probably plays 30-35 gigs a year, every year. We play all over the PNW, with all sorts of original bands - mostly punk, hardcore, thrash, but also some post-hardcore, emo, stuff like that. So we probably play with close to 100 original bands a year.

I would say a pretty easy 4 out of 5 of them play a 2203 or 800. Yes, there's pedal guys with twins, and yes there are a handful of rectos, and a smattering of plexis and marks. But by far the most common amps are 800s of some flavor. Sometimes guys will have a klone or an 808, sometimes not.

But it's almost always an 800. They absolutely kill in a band situation, cranked up with everyone playing loud and hard.

I will add Silver Jubilee to the equation: just kicks ass when recording and playing in a band at volume.

 

[DanTravis62]

I will add Silver Jubilee to the equation: just kicks ass when recording and playing in a band at volume.

Everyone loves jubes; unfortunately just don't see them as much

Which sucks, I love them

Bad Religion has some freaking excellent guitar tones and a lot of that 90s stuff was jubes

 

[rstites]

I mean I understand why many like them but for me as is they just don't pack enough preamp gain and I feel they can get a bit flabby in that sense in general relative to other stuff.

I may check one out again and blast it higher than that to SEE/Hear whats up but in general i just think I don't really dig them and thats fine too and they just arent My thing and arent My thing. I prefer something like a 5150/6505, BE100, SmallBox etc etc or other amps mentioned that just have higher gain in general.

The 2203 is most definitely not high gain by modern standards. They had more than the classic NMV - plenty for 70's hard rock, but beyond that everyone boosts them or starts tinkering with them to add gain stages, clippers, etc. for more distortion. They also get a bit loose if you crank the preamp gain all the way up, though you can get up to 7-8 (depending on specific amp) on the preamp gain and stay fairly tight. I wouldn't use the word flabby, because the power amp stays very tight. Keep the 6550's in them they came to the US with for a number years and they really stay tight.

There's lots of downsides to the 2203, but it's not so much the core tone as a lack of options. They're only one channel. They need a boost for any kind of metal. They need someone who can manage the guitar volume control for anything approaching a clean sound. You need the sound man to kick in the solo boost for lead breaks (true for any amp without a dedicated lead vs heavy rhythm channel). I'm not a huge effects guy, but when I ran some delay or (rarely) reverb, I'd have that kicked in at the board too as there's no loop and those effects sound like ass in front of the amp.

.....but for pure, straight-forward, kicking someone in the teeth sounds, there are few amps that measure up. Most of the higher gain amps lack to raw balls and power of the old Marshalls at volume. However, lots of them sound much better at low volumes or without a band, and definitely when just jamming by yourself. The Marshall wasn't designed to sound great in isolation. It was designed to cut through the mix on stage.

 

[rstites]

Couldn't possibly agree with this more.

So my original punk band probably plays 30-35 gigs a year, every year. We play all over the PNW, with all sorts of original bands - mostly punk, hardcore, thrash, but also some post-hardcore, emo, stuff like that. So we probably play with close to 100 original bands a year.

I would say a pretty easy 4 out of 5 of them play a 2203 or 800. Yes, there's pedal guys with twins, and yes there are a handful of rectos, and a smattering of plexis and marks. But by far the most common amps are 800s of some flavor. Sometimes guys will have a klone or an 808, sometimes not.

But it's almost always an 800. They absolutely kill in a band situation, cranked up with everyone playing loud and hard.

I'm thrilled to hear of so many bands still playing at volume on stage! I hear so much about quiet stages, and really see so many bands with direct feeds now that I love the idea of someone out there banging away on the big old amps.

 

[DanTravis62]

I'm thrilled to hear of so many bands still playing at volume on stage! I hear so much about quiet stages, and really see so many bands with direct feeds now that I love the idea of someone out there banging away on the big old amps.

if someone wanted a "silent stage" at most of the venues I play at, the promoter and sound guys would laugh them out of the building

These are punk rock shows, not playing "la grange" at the county fair with your grab-n-go modeler