Axe-fx vs Tube Amps... my first experience.

[spawnofthesith]

I saw Devin a few months ago (here in the US) and he was running the Axe FX into a Mesa poweramp. Can't remember which one though. I think it was the 2:90. Cynic is another band using the Axe FX. They run theirs straight into the PA

 

[RedB4Black]

All I know is that these guys are pros and have had the greatest equipment in rock and they have axefx

this

 

[spawnofthesith]

Oh and John Petrucci is also another hard hitter that has an Axe FX now. However, for his main rig he is just using it for FX. He uses amp sims over seas though

 

[mentoneman]

All I know is that these guys are pros and have had the greatest equipment in rock and they have axefx, just looking at it for what it is and no I do not own an axefx.

The pics I saw had the AxeFX being used as storage space for papers, hats, and chocolate bars, with his guitar plugged into his Legacy combo. When he's actually using it, that will be something to say.

Of course, I think the AxeFX would be an improvement to his tone.

Yeah I wish he would go back to the tone he had on Eat 'Em And Smile or Alien Love Secrets. As far as he goes that was two of his best IMHO.

or blue powder....

one thing for sure about the axe, the louder you can afford to play your axe rig, the better it sounds, and the more your rig will begin to feel like a tube rig.
but i really think i'll be using the axe as fx in a w/d/w rig, in the 4cm plugging:

gtr->axe in (for pedals before amp)->axe send->carol ann /hotplate line out->axe return=>>stereo out



i've tried it with my eggie tol 100 and carol ann OD2r and the results were excellent with very little effort, whereas i continue to look for more tube feel with the axe every time i turn it on. no lack of tube experience with the w/d/w rig, but more wiring hassles and gear to haul live

 

[chobley]

one thing for sure about the axe, the louder you can afford to play your axe rig, the better it sounds, and the more your rig will begin to feel like a tube rig.

I have a blown driver on my K-12 to prove this

 

[ejecta]

All I know is that these guys are pros and have had the greatest equipment in rock and they have axefx, just looking at it for what it is and no I do not own an axefx.

The pics I saw had the AxeFX being used as storage space for papers, hats, and chocolate bars, with his guitar plugged into his Legacy combo. When he's actually using it, that will be something to say.

Of course, I think the AxeFX would be an improvement to his tone.

Yeah I wish he would go back to the tone he had on Eat 'Em And Smile or Alien Love Secrets. As far as he goes that was two of his best IMHO.

or blue powder....

one thing for sure about the axe, the louder you can afford to play your axe rig, the better it sounds, and the more your rig will begin to feel like a tube rig.
but i really think i'll be using the axe as fx in a w/d/w rig, in the 4cm plugging:

gtr->axe in (for pedals before amp)->axe send->carol ann /hotplate line out->axe return=>>stereo out



i've tried it with my eggie tol 100 and carol ann OD2r and the results were excellent with very little effort, whereas i continue to look for more tube feel with the axe every time i turn it on. no lack of tube experience with the w/d/w rig, but more wiring hassles and gear to haul live

Yeah I found that as well with the Axe and 11R.... the more volume you had under them the better. I actually have to give a nod to the 11R for a much better feel all the way around YMMV. I bet that Carol Ann/Axe rig will sound righteous!

 

[mortega76]

Ok... Per Matt's suggestion I went ahead I looked for a Carvin TS100... I was able to find one today for $300. I was so excited that I went to our practice place to test it out against my QSC GX5. When I plugged in both cabs my bottom (Flextone 8ohm mono) cab sounded pretty loud with the amp at full volume and the presence at noon. But my Marshall 1960 (16 ohm) cab was very low... I then swapped the cables (and adjusted the ohm settings) and the Marshall was audible but the Flextone was whisper low. My bass player opened the rig and all the tubes looked fine but the volume knob on the PCB (?) board looks a bit corroded. I know nothing about amps so I have no clue what to do... I went ahead and set my Marshall 1960 cab to stereo mode at 4 ohms (if I remember correctly) so I can A/B with both the QSC and the Carvin TS100 2nd channel (Axe-fx power amp sims ON). First up was the Carvin TS100... my Axe-fx (with my current distortion setting and output 1 maxed) had a top end that I had never heard before coming from my setup... it's like a shimmer or high end sparkle that is very reminiscent of what I was hearing from the Fryette 2/90/2 (Axe-fx power amp sims OFF). To mimic Carvin's max volume I had to set the QSC's volume at around 12:30 or closer to 1 o'clock... and it definitely sound ed like it was muffled... or (like I've said before) the top 25% of the shimmer being filtered out. It was loud but definitely not "thumping"... I then put the QSC at 3 o'clock and then maxed it out... and it was freaking devastating!!! But at that volume you can't even hear yourself think... you just want to move out of the way of the speaker. My dilemma is that I want to have the power to "rumble" if the need ever arises... but in reality most soundmen I've dealt with don't even let me get past 10 o'clock. For my setup I want more power and a true stereo amp because I'm running two cabs so I need to sell my QSC GX5 and save up for a Fryette 2/90/2 or something similar. Any suggestions for a great tube power amp under $1000? Or maybe even a better SS power amp?

 

[chameleon2112]

Ok... Per Matt's suggestion I went ahead I looked for a Carvin TS100... I was able to find one today for $300. I was so excited that I went to our practice place to test it out against my QSC GX5. When I plugged in both cabs my bottom (Flextone 8ohm mono) cab sounded pretty loud with the amp at full volume and the presence at noon. But my Marshall 1960 (16 ohm) cab was very low... I then swapped the cables (and adjusted the ohm settings) and the Marshall was audible but the Flextone was whisper low. My bass player opened the rig and all the tubes looked fine but the volume knob on the PCB (?) board looks a bit corroded. I know nothing about amps so I have no clue what to do... I went ahead and set my Marshall 1960 cab to stereo mode at 4 ohms (if I remember correctly) so I can A/B with both the QSC and the Carvin TS100 2nd channel (Axe-fx power amp sims ON). First up was the Carvin TS100... my Axe-fx (with my current distortion setting and output 1 maxed) had a top end that I had never heard before coming from my setup... it's like a shimmer or high end sparkle that is very reminiscent of what I was hearing from the Fryette 2/90/2 (Axe-fx power amp sims OFF). To mimic Carvin's max volume I had to set the QSC's volume at around 12:30 or closer to 1 o'clock... and it definitely sound ed like it was muffled... or (like I've said before) the top 25% of the shimmer being filtered out. It was loud but definitely not "thumping"... I then put the QSC at 3 o'clock and then maxed it out... and it was freaking devastating!!! But at that volume you can't even hear yourself think... you just want to move out of the way of the speaker. My dilemma is that I want to have the power to "rumble" if the need ever arises... but in reality most soundmen I've dealt with don't even let me get past 10 o'clock. For my setup I want more power and a true stereo amp because I'm running two cabs so I need to sell my QSC GX5 and save up for a Fryette 2/90/2 or something similar. Any suggestions for a great tube power amp under $1000? Or maybe even a better SS power amp?

Samhill sounds awesome with his Art SLA-2. What are they, around $350? I have a Recto 2:100 that sounds really good with the Axe. You can find them used for $750-$800. I was ready to sell it and lighten the load a little, but I am really liking how the rig sounds right now. Maybe Samhill will chime in and give a comparison of the two, since he has both.

 

[gbsmusic]

I have the VHT 2-50-2 and love it. Plenty of power. I've heard great things about the Art but I just cant get rid of tubes all the way

 

[rupe]

Forgot to mention that Matt had some of the best beer I've ever tasted... wow. I think he said it was imported from heaven!

Cleveland is a far cry from Heaven...but Great Lakes Edmund Fitzgerald Porter is one of my all time favorites.

The Mistake by the Lake isn't bad, but its no San Antonio. I personally like alot Eliot Ness, but the Edmund Fitzgerald is great.

I drove that keg all they way back from Cleveland. You could say I'm a beer junkie. Try some of their Blackout Stout. Great stuff.

The secret is the Lake Erie water

 

[mortega76]

chameleon2112: Mark (samhill) gave us his list to his top 6 power amps (sections)...

Bacon
OD100
Mesa 2:100
Fryette 2/50/2
Egnater
SLA2

I just tested out the volume of the Carvin TS100 and I really don't think 50 watts per channel is quite enough for me... especially in our practice room that absorbs a lot of volume. I really would like someone's take on the Fryette 2/90/2 vs the Mesa 2:90 (or whatever they're called) or the Mesa 2:100.

gbsmusic: If the Carvin was any indication of what 50 watts sounds like in a stereo setup, then it's definitely not enough power for me.

rupe: So that's where that "chocolate" flavor comes from!!!

 

[mortega76]

Also, just a question... do you have to still worry about speaker load with tube power amps? I'm a tube n00b so I have no idea...

 

[Death by Uberschall]

Bogner Ubershall... the Bogner sounded very smooth and no where near as brewtal as the ENGL so, but together they sounded pretty good... I really didn't adjust the Ubershall all that much.

You should have twisted the knobs. You might have really been surprised. The Presence knob is the key.

 

[needtopractice1]

My AXE FX patch with the VHT 2150 is heaven to me...

A big thanks to Matt (mhenson42) for inviting us over to his house... it was a pleasure meeting you and your family. Crazy thing is that his buddy (Paul) showed up and after we got to talking a bit we found out that we've jammed out with a couple of the same folks... Such a small world...

Again... big thanks to Matt for the invite... it was an eye opening experience.

I've used the Axe-fx for over 2 years and it's been my go to amp since I've gotten it... before that I had a Vetta II HD and before that I had a Marshall Valavestate 200. When I got the Axe-fx it was on 5.1x and I was not crazy about it... my band mates were telling that I should have stayed with my Vetta II HD... and at the time I completely agreed with them even though I only ever told them that I just needed some time to get acquainted with it. Well, it didn't get any better (for me) until 7.xx came out and the power amp modeling got a big boost from Cliff's voodoo magic code. 8.xx only updated the drive blocks so it didn't affect my tone... then 9.xx came out and the power amp modeling got another big update. 10.xx came out and via my headphones everything sounded soooo much better, but when I had my last practice, everything sounded so much more fizzier... not necessarily a harsh digital fizz, but just a fizz in general... I defaulted the amp parameters, lowered the gain, upped the master, upped the presence and I could not find a way to make it sound "brewtal" enough for me. That's where I'm at with the Axe-fx as of now... powered by my QSC GX5.

Matt had a great line up of amps... Bogner Ubershall, Diezel Herbert, Axe-fx Ultra, Mako Mak4, along with SLA2, Fryette 2/50/2 and the Fryette 2/90/2 and his buddy brought over a ENGL SE that he was going to re-tube for him... pretty much every piece of gear I've ever wanted to hear was there. All this gear was going to go through two awesome looking (and sounding) Mills cabs with V30/G12K-100 X-pattern.

First up was the Diezel Herbert that I've really wanted to play ever since I heard the Cancer Bat song "Hail Destroyer" and someone here on Rig Talk said they used this amp. Well, I was playing on Channel 3 (thinking this should be the best of the three) and I had a hard time trying to make it sound good... I don't have any experience with tube amps so I ask why the tone was "jumping" and why it was a bit "compressed" on the low end, maybe a bit of "pumping"... little did I know that this is exactly what tube amps do... they interact with your playing.

I stopped playing that amp because the ENGL SE was ready to be tested. Well, that amp sounded thick as fuck!!! Brewtals galore!!! He played that for a while and I was initially blown away... After he stopped playing the ENGL I asked if they could A/B it to the the Bogner Ubershall... the Bogner sounded very smooth and no where near as brewtal as the ENGL so, but together they sounded pretty good... I really didn't adjust the Ubershall all that much.

I came back to the Herbert and tried Channel 2... waaaaaay better sounding that Channel 3... much more open and tighter distortion sound.

Well, then we come to the Mako Mak4... Matt connected it to the Fryette 2/90/2 and put it on the Dorado channel... gain around 8-9 o'clock, low to around 11 o'clock, mid at noon, and high to around 2 o'clock and volume to taste. It was the best high gain distortion I have ever heard in my life. That sucker was a buffet of upper frequency goodness. I played that amp for 20 minutes straight and every so often I would pick up my jaw off the floor and tell the guys how awesome this setup sounded. For the first time I really thought of selling my rig and getting a Mako Mak4 and Fryette 2/90/2.

I then asked them to A/B the Mako to the the ENGL SE and it was no comparison... the ENGL SE had a great low end (but very round) and the mids and highs were just ok (after hearing what the Mako sounded like). Together they sounded very very good... the Mako did lack a bit in the lows so the ENGL combo was perfect. Maybe putting a PEQ in the chain would have helped. The Mako was tightest, thickest, meatiest, most brewtal tone I have ever heard... it just needs a bit more low end but damn that setup was phenomenal, I cannot stress that enough...

Finally we connected the Axe-fx with my QSC GX5 and on my best patch it sounded as if the top 25% of the high end (harmonic) juicy goodness was just gone compared to most of the amp sims I tried... we used the SLO, Recto's, Bogner's, Das Metall, and only the Peavey 5150 came close... but still it lacked the top 25% of the goodness that the Mak4-2/90/2 had. The Mako clean channel was a great sounding channel as well... the Plexi, sounded similar to an over driven Plexi amp sim from the Axe-fx without the 25% goodness.

We then disconnected the QSC and connected the SLA2 and it sounded even worse... I've always heard folks saying that it sounds great but it really sounded bad... I don't get what folks hear in the SLA2.

So if I had to rate them...

1. Mako Mak4 with the Fryette 2/90/2 (we tried it with the 2/50/2 as well but I preferred the 2/90/2)
2. This was really a toss up between the ENGL SE and the Herbert Channel 2... but I gave it to the ENGL SE
3. Herbert Channel 2...
4. Bogner Ubershall... this amp was the one I really wanted to hear and was a bit disappointed compared to the Mako.
5. Herbert Channel 3...
5. Axe-fx... this is another big disappointment... maaaaaaan... I had no idea was I was missing... I really want to buy a Fryette 2/90/2 and run it with my Axe-fx and see if I get better results than what we got at Matt's... I didn't get a chance to try any of my patches with the Fryette 2/90/2... maybe next time. I was lucky that the warden... I mean... my wife didn't get mad at me for staying so long at his pad so I didn't want to push the issue... hahahahaha

Very short review to an awesome day at Matt's house... thank you so much for inviting us into your home.

P.S. Cliff... if you are reading this... please... please... please model the Mako Mak4 Durado channel... that channel is the ultimate in metal brewtalz.

P.S.S. Two things I didn't like about the Mako were that the sucker is big (but still light) and the old school knobs... give us some chrome!!!!

P.S.S.S. Anyone from Mako want to send me a Mak4?!?!?? Please!?!!!? Pretty Please?!?!?!?

 

[gbsmusic]

chameleon2112: Mark (samhill) gave us his list to his top 6 power amps (sections)...

Bacon
OD100
Mesa 2:100
Fryette 2/50/2
Egnater
SLA2

I just tested out the volume of the Carvin TS100 and I really don't think 50 watts per channel is quite enough for me... especially in our practice room that absorbs a lot of volume. I really would like someone's take on the Fryette 2/90/2 vs the Mesa 2:90 (or whatever they're called) or the Mesa 2:100.

gbsmusic: If the Carvin was any indication of what 50 watts sounds like in a stereo setup, then it's definitely not enough power for me.

rupe: So that's where that "chocolate" flavor comes from!!!

I have yet to need to turn my system up more then half way. At half it can compete with a loud drummer.

 

[Ventura]

Zappa replaced his entire crazy rack with the axefx for his euro rig.

Devin Townsend, creator of one of the heaviest albums of all time uses the axefx.

Steve Vai of stadium rack use and supersoaker uses the axefx.

I think these guys know what is up.

Dweezil played the QE in Vancouver a month ago with 2 Ultra's behind him - no amps... The sound was alright, but in certain frequency ranges or "clusters", one couldn't make out the notes, the articulation, or even what the hell was going on. I think the Axe FX is a phenomenal adjunct in any studio environment, or DAW, but it's by no means going to replicate the growl and character of red hot glass. On the same note, Dweezil's other guitarist was mic'ing a couple 30W or 50W combos, a Duende or Shiva and a Two Rock, his sound was superior.

I'm not sayin...
I'm just sayin...
You know what I'm sayin?

V.

 

[diagrammatiks]

ya. take that digital technology. suck it. suck it. suuuuuuuck it.
you like apples.
tubes number 1
tubes number 1
tubes number 1

j/k

I'm a right tool right task kinda of guy. My toolbox is big and it's very accepting. I can't think of a single good reason not to own something on par with the axe fx. Although, I can't think of a single good reason to own only an axe fx either.

 

[richedie]

Do you still have your Axe FX? I bet if you had the new version 11.0 into a good VHT power amp, you'd be hard pressed to hear or feel a difference from those tube amps. And now they have AxeFX II coming out! I might be signing up.

 

[Deleted member 3860]

...

 

[polaris20]

A bunch of players tour Europe with just the Axe (Petrucci, Vai, Ty Tabor), and that makes sense. But here, they just use it for effects. There's no doubt the effects are outstanding, but is it the feel that has these guys coming back to tubes (MkV for Petrucci, Legacy for Vai, Egnater for Tabor) when they get home?

It'll be interesting to see how the II stacks up in the feel department. No modeler I've ever tried has had that unpredictable push back that tubes have.