Bugera TriRec Vs. Mesa Dual Recto (Video)

[D-Rock]

Used Mesa for less than 1k
all
day
long.

Used Bugera for $300
all
day
long.

Seriously, these things are going to be dirt cheap on the used market. I don't even overly like the recto tone, but I'd pick one up for $300 just to dick around with.

Someone's gotta, might as well be you. Won't be me that's for sure since I don't cheap out by buying counterfeit product and have no issue paying for originality and quality. Those Bugeras look and feel like junk in person. Could care less what they sound like, where they are made or how much they cost. They have an irreversible reputation that I won't support or endorse.

 

[madrigal77]

Used Mesa for less than 1k
all
day
long.

Used Bugera for $300
all
day
long.

Seriously, these things are going to be dirt cheap on the used market. I don't even overly like the recto tone, but I'd pick one up for $300 just to dick around with.

Someone's gotta, might as well be you. Won't be me that's for sure since I don't cheap out by buying counterfeit product and have no issue paying for originality and quality. Those Bugeras look and feel like junk in person. Could care less what they sound like, where they are made or how much they cost. They have an irreversible reputation that I won't support or endorse.

I don't think you know what counterfeit means. I'm not even going to elaborate because I'd be wasting my breath.

If you want a Recto and want Mesa quality, by all means go ahead and get a Mesa. For someone who jams at home and occasionally plays a local gig, I'm sure the Bugera would be good enough. I agree with you that if you are really serious about getting a Recto, you should go the Mesa route 10x out of 10. But if you're not a serious player or only have a mild interest in a Recto, $300-$350 for a used Bugera isn't a bad route to go.

 

[LP Freak]

Also LOL @ anyone who think "made in the USA" means it's made by "Americans". 90% of manufacturing jobs are done by immigrants. Made in the US by Mexicans and Chinese, or made in Mexico and China by Mexicans and Chinese; what's the difference, other than labour costs?

But the profit goes to the US not to a foreign country.

 

[jiveturkey]

Used Mesa for less than 1k
all
day
long.

Used Bugera for $300
all
day
long.

Seriously, these things are going to be dirt cheap on the used market. I don't even overly like the recto tone, but I'd pick one up for $300 just to dick around with.

Someone's gotta, might as well be you. Won't be me that's for sure since I don't cheap out by buying counterfeit product and have no issue paying for originality and quality. Those Bugeras look and feel like junk in person. Could care less what they sound like, where they are made or how much they cost. They have an irreversible reputation that I won't support or endorse.

I'm gonna go full on d*ck mode, but don't you have an LTD in your avatar? Not counterfeit, but it's cheap. Similar purchase considerations that one has when they don't have $1500~ to buy a new amp.
I have a 6262 (since 2008, no problems whatsoever) and it sounds awesome. I also have a Tremoverb and it sounds amazing as well. In the video, the TriRec sounded great. The Boogie could have sounded better than it did, but if I found a used TriRec for cheap, I would get one.

 

[madrigal77]

Also LOL @ anyone who think "made in the USA" means it's made by "Americans". 90% of manufacturing jobs are done by immigrants. Made in the US by Mexicans and Chinese, or made in Mexico and China by Mexicans and Chinese; what's the difference, other than labour costs?

But the profit goes to the US not to a foreign country.

Who cares? I don't see anyone having a problem buying from other German companies.

 

[dooredge]

Who cares? I don't see anyone having a problem buying from other German companies.

Is Bugera really a German company? Bugera is, I think, owned by Music Group IP Ltd (http://www.music-group.com)?

Or is Music Group the distributor of product? Their HQ is in the Philippines.

And for what it's worth, asking out of curiosity; I don't care who buys or doesn't buy a Bugera.

 

[borninwinter]

Why are we equating companies with countries? Mesa doesn't = the US. One thing the Japanese car manufacturers, for example, did with all their money was open factories all over this country and hire people. And it's not like "Mesa" is actually one person - it's a lot of individuals doing different things with their money. For all you know, some of those things might involve foreign investment of some sort.

 

[Heritage Softail]

Bugera sounds like unemployed Americans and Chinese theft.

Sounds very close. But counterfeits are designed to sound close.

As destroyed as the economy is, the huge number of unemployed or underemployed people that are out there...

It is amazing Americans buy this stuff. It is a pretty poison. And stealing downloaded music did not hurt any musicians either.

It doesn't matter how great of a counterfeit it is, it is like a cancer that Americans pay money to get.

If you don't understand economics well enough to understand how this hurts our economy, remember that you don't have to understand the nuclear bomb works for it to kill you.

The fact is that spending money with China is funding the friend of North Korea. Right now China is openly saying they are still backing N K even after they say they will launch a first Nuke strike on the US. They have token criticism but funnel all the supplies to them they need.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/10/world/asia/china-says-it-will-not-abandon-north-korea.html?_r=0

Yeah I bet those millions of Bugeras sold sure make a dent in the American economy

Remember American jobs are still required to sell them, so not all is lost with foreign products. Why don't you use that argument about your TV, because it certainly isn't made here. Or your car stereo, microwave, DVD player, etc.

The copy, naming something after the original, and the loss of jobs while funding a country that hates us. They support N Korea that openly says they would do a first nuke strike.

The incorrect logic about selling the amp is funny. What business school did that come from? The Mesa would get sold as well. You dont think the Guitar Center kid comission is a drop in the bucket? And the Bug would probably sell at a lower margin. All money related to US sourced material would no longer recirculate in our economy.

The same argument holds exactly true with electronics. That is why over the years all those jobs have been lost. You can blame unions for part of the US auto industry stagnation and total crap they put out in the late 70's thru early 90's.

At the end of the day, it is easy to see the economic impact. It is not an opinion like the tone of an amp. Lost jobs for all, related to buying foreign in stead of American is factual. Some American makers got lax on quality and high on price and brought it on themselves.

The Bugera brand lives on copying amps and doing the clone thing. IMO they should be illegal and dealing them should carry a fine. That would apply to there that copy amp models like that. You don't see Ford making a Fordvette... There is no Chevy C-150.

If you buy foreign knock offs of domestic original products, it hurts our economy. Fact not opinion.

 

[borninwinter]

If you buy foreign knock offs of domestic original products, it hurts our economy. Fact not opinion.

The entire amp industry is miniscule in comparison to the overall economy. If every guitar player in the world started using Mesa, it still wouldn't impact the economy as a whole. Mesa would hire a few more assemblers (immigrants maybe sending money back home?), they'd continue to have to buy some of their parts abroad just like every other consumer product, and China would never notice.

 

[borninwinter]

Where do you supposed those big soldering machines and other equipment that Mesa uses in that video is made? No Chinese parts in there, I'm sure...

 

[jiveturkey]

If you buy foreign knock offs of domestic original products, it hurts our economy. Fact not opinion.

The entire amp industry is miniscule in comparison to the overall economy. If every guitar player in the world started using Mesa, it still wouldn't impact the economy as a whole. Mesa would hire a few more assemblers (immigrants maybe sending money back home?), they'd continue to have to buy some of their parts abroad just like every other consumer product, and China would never notice.

This x infinity. Buying a Bugera that has a very similar circuit design and name guarantees we will be nuked by N. Korea but buying a Marshall clone with a different name for $3700 is ok. Makes perfect sense.

 

[Heritage Softail]

If you buy foreign knock offs of domestic original products, it hurts our economy. Fact not opinion.

The entire amp industry is miniscule in comparison to the overall economy. If every guitar player in the world started using Mesa, it still wouldn't impact the economy as a whole. Mesa would hire a few more assemblers (immigrants maybe sending money back home?), they'd continue to have to buy some of their parts abroad just like every other consumer product, and China would never notice.

It never matters until it gets your job cut. Recirculating $ is huge. Has a 7-10X impact depending on the school of thought. We try and source American made materials in our products for that reason. I need a speaker cab. Will get a guy of the forum to make it. Kyle is making my next amp. I would have no issue buying a Diezel. It is the real deal. I would not buy a Diezel knock off. A Bugera version of a Diesel would still be a copy by a slime ball company.

At the end of the day it is a personal choice, but it does have national consequence when you factor in the collective buying choices.

 

[Heritage Softail]

If you buy foreign knock offs of domestic original products, it hurts our economy. Fact not opinion.

The entire amp industry is miniscule in comparison to the overall economy. If every guitar player in the world started using Mesa, it still wouldn't impact the economy as a whole. Mesa would hire a few more assemblers (immigrants maybe sending money back home?), they'd continue to have to buy some of their parts abroad just like every other consumer product, and China would never notice.

This x infinity. Buying a Bugera that has a very similar circuit design and name guarantees we will be nuked by N. Korea but buying a Marshall clone with a different name for $3700 is ok. Makes perfect sense.

Being a dumb ass with a smart ass comment makes lots of sense too.

I see this in the perspective of a 40,000 employee company. It all matters. We could change a supplier and a mom and pop business of 12 could have to lay off half their employees. It impacts people and paychecks. It is not some impersonal thing.

 

[some dude]

Where do you supposed those big soldering machines and other equipment that Mesa uses in that video is made? No Chinese parts in there, I'm sure...

I'm suppose we should throw out the baby with the bath water...

 

[LP Freak]

If you buy foreign knock offs of domestic original products, it hurts our economy. Fact not opinion.

The entire amp industry is miniscule in comparison to the overall economy. If every guitar player in the world started using Mesa, it still wouldn't impact the economy as a whole. Mesa would hire a few more assemblers (immigrants maybe sending money back home?), they'd continue to have to buy some of their parts abroad just like every other consumer product, and China would never notice.

This x infinity. Buying a Bugera that has a very similar circuit design and name guarantees we will be nuked by N. Korea but buying a Marshall clone with a different name for $3700 is ok. Makes perfect sense.

Being a dumb ass with a smart ass comment makes lots of sense too.

I see this in the perspective of a 40,000 employee company. It all matters. We could change a supplier and a mom and pop business of 12 could have to lay off half their employees. It impacts people and paychecks. It is not some impersonal thing.

Exactly

 

[jiveturkey]

If you buy foreign knock offs of domestic original products, it hurts our economy. Fact not opinion.

The entire amp industry is miniscule in comparison to the overall economy. If every guitar player in the world started using Mesa, it still wouldn't impact the economy as a whole. Mesa would hire a few more assemblers (immigrants maybe sending money back home?), they'd continue to have to buy some of their parts abroad just like every other consumer product, and China would never notice.

This x infinity. Buying a Bugera that has a very similar circuit design and name guarantees we will be nuked by N. Korea but buying a Marshall clone with a different name for $3700 is ok. Makes perfect sense.

Being a dumb ass with a smart ass comment makes lots of sense too.

I see this in the perspective of a 40,000 employee company. It all matters. We could change a supplier and a mom and pop business of 12 could have to lay off half their employees. It impacts people and paychecks. It is not some impersonal thing.

Slippery slope, isn't it... I was kind of trolling you

The entire amp industry is miniscule in comparison to the overall economy. If every guitar player in the world started using Mesa, it still wouldn't impact the economy as a whole.
Again, that is the valid point. I understand your thought process and agree to an extent, but if someone wants a Mesa and can afford a Mesa, they will buy a Boogie. I bought a used one as I couldn't afford nor justify spending that much money on a hobby I pursue on a very limited basis. High-Gain amp manufacturers aren't suddenly outsourcing any more than than they already have. It is a niche market at very best. People can afford what they can afford.

 

[borninwinter]

If you buy foreign knock offs of domestic original products, it hurts our economy. Fact not opinion.

The entire amp industry is miniscule in comparison to the overall economy. If every guitar player in the world started using Mesa, it still wouldn't impact the economy as a whole. Mesa would hire a few more assemblers (immigrants maybe sending money back home?), they'd continue to have to buy some of their parts abroad just like every other consumer product, and China would never notice.

It never matters until it gets your job cut. Recirculating $ is huge. Has a 7-10X impact depending on the school of thought. We try and source American made materials in our products for that reason. I need a speaker cab. Will get a guy of the forum to make it. Kyle is making my next amp. I would have no issue buying a Diezel. It is the real deal. I would not buy a Diezel knock off. A Bugera version of a Diesel would still be a copy by a slime ball company.

At the end of the day it is a personal choice, but it does have national consequence when you factor in the collective buying choices.

If you're recirculating 0.0000000000000001% of the economy 10x, that's still not much. I do agree about the point of the individual employee's job. I don't agree that that's the same thing as "impacting the economy." For example, the Japanese auto manufacturers in the 1970s and 80s were bad news if you were working in Detroit, MI at the time. Lots of people in the auto industry impacted negatively. But from the perspective of the economy as a whole - people got cheaper, more reliable cars that lasted longer, and didn't cost as much in maintenance either, which freed up cash to use on other things. Ultimately, they opened factories here which hired a bunch of people. So in the end the Japanese car manufacturers were pretty good for the US economy and the average citizen. I'm not saying that Bugera is the same as Honda, but Honda and Toyota did get in by selling cheaper cars. Point being, if you just mean you want to help Mesa keep employing a handful of people in the US, I can see your point. But this just isn't the same thing as having an impact on the overall economy or affecting the fundamental relationship bw the US and foreign manufacturing. I mean low cost mfg is yesterday's issue, it gone and done. There will always be some "niche" type manufacturers like Mesa, but the large scale stuff is gone and it's not coming back...to the extend it does it will be highly mechanized with machines built with Chinese parts.

 

[jiveturkey]

These Bugera discussions always boil down to 2 camps. Cheap/poor people who can't afford the real thing (which always brings the absurd "I can get $200 5150s off craigslist all day long" replies out of the woodwork) and people that want to pay thousands of dollars for gear that will permanently sit in their basement and maybe come out once a month or so for a random gig. I'm poor/cheap and have a family to support, so I will never buy a new $8000 rig to play local gigs at a bar with. Just does not make sense to me.

 

[TheMagicEight]

Where do you supposed those big soldering machines and other equipment that Mesa uses in that video is made? No Chinese parts in there, I'm sure...

Something industrial like that? Probably a lot less than you think. Much more likely German. I doubt Mesa would skimp on quality.

The entire amp industry is miniscule in comparison to the overall economy.

Do you also throw trash out of your car window because you're miniscule in comparison to the entire population?

It's the principle. No, Mesa / Bugera will have an unnoticeable impact on the economy. But when this type of thinking is applied across the board, it demonstrates pretty well why the US is in terrible shape.

And as for people wondering why countries like Germany are okay, it has to do with - neglecting all social issues and implications - trade. The EU, while we still don't export to them as much as we import, is three times more likely to purchase our products than China, according to the US Census Bureau. That adds up to a MASSIVE trade deficit.

How big? $315 billion dollars in 2012. Up from $103 billion in 2002.

 

[borninwinter]

Where do you supposed those big soldering machines and other equipment that Mesa uses in that video is made? No Chinese parts in there, I'm sure...

I'm suppose we should throw out the baby with the bath water...

The point is that people are greatly amplifying ( ) the actual impact of their personal choices and how much of a difference "buying American" actually makes anymore. Not that anyone doesn't want to support the home team, but reality is what it is. Across the board, most consumer products are manufactured in China and there is no choice. 300 billion in a drop in the bucket as far as US-China goes, really.