Considering new speakers for a 4x12 Marshall cab UPDATE!

[glassjaw7]

I’m looking to do the same with my 1960B. I tried getting away from the celestion bite and raunch and ended up with a mix of Webers. They sound great but lately have been sounding a bit too polite for my taste. I might try to get some Marshall branded V30s since I’m mainly using a 2555x with it.
Or I could go with tried-and-true Greenbacks.

Speakers are the last and most important piece of the tone puzzle. Crazy how drastically they change tone.

 

[ChurchHill]

Just random numbers, but IMHO just considering the amp, speakers are about 45% of the sound, the output transformer's about 35%, tubes 10%, and everything else 10%. For a slightly bigger picture, the amp is about 10%, the guitar is about 5%, and the player is about 85%. Just my opinion.

 

[HellraiserJohnny]

I wanted more bottom end out of my JCM 1960 B 800\900 cabs so I loaded them with Warehouse E65's. Huge difference. It took a little bit to break them in but once they did, they sound better every day. Tons of tight thumping bottom with no flub at all, just real kick in the chest bass. Nice smooth mids and highs. No loss over the original Celestion sound there. You may want to try 2 to start (offset) and see if you like them enough to go with all 4. Best part is, they were cheap!!!

I started using them in my open back Fender combo amp and was very impressed so I thought I try em out in the 4X12 cabs. To add, Warehouse support is second to none, they are very responsive and treat customers very well.

 

[Rex Rocker]

I have to disagree. I have 2- 4x12 cabs loaded with g12h-30 and a 2x12 loaded with the creamback H-75's . I a/b the speakers when I first got the creambacks putting 2 g12's and 2 creambacks in the same cab. Then I used a cab switcher and set the cab for stereo so I could play through one set and instantly switch to the other.
The creambacks are much more agressive and have more top end.

Splatter... which G12H30s? 55Hz or 75Hz or Anniversaries? I would guess that the Creamback H30 would be closer to the 75Hz Heritage, but I don't have any of the Creamback H30s.

I'm curious as to which H30's you compared the CB's to as well.

IME, the H30 Anniversaries are as bright if not brighter than Creamback H-75's (asuming both have similar break-in time). I agree, CB-H-75's are pretty bright. However, I find they are all about sizzle, but they have much more relaxed upper-mids/lower-treble than say, a Vintage 30. I find the Annis don't have much less sizzle while having more of that high-mid stridency that CB's lack. Just my experience.

Then again, I have not tried the Heritage H30's (neither 55 or 75 Hz versions).

Or maybe you're talking about old vintage H30's?

 

[ChurchHill]

I've found the Annis to be much brighter than either the Heritage G12H30-55Hz, Heritage G12H30-75Hz, and the Creamback G12M65. I haven't tried the Creamback G12H75, yet, but imagine the difference between the two Creambacks to be similar to the difference between the two Heritages (G12M25 GB and G12H30-75Hz).

Not that the Annis are bad speakers at all, though. I've had great luck with them brightening up darker amps, both in cabs and in combos. They're just not jack-of-all-trades, but then again, is any speaker? Maybe a few come close (V30, any version GB), maybe.

 

[Rex Rocker]

I agree. I feel the Annis are probably the brightest speakers in the Celestion catalog. At least from the ones I've tried. It seems to be the case here too:

Then again, it varies from speaker to speaker. One of my two CB-75's is (subtly) brighter than the other, and the Chinese Vintage 30 that came in my Orange cab is noticeably brighter than the pair of 25th Anniversary Chinese Vintage 30's I bought a few years ago.

 

[harddriver]

After much consternation and comparative deliberation I ordered a full quad of Celestion Heritage 12H-30 55Hz. I just could not get past the tone in these vids. Since I have never ever played a 55HZ I though it was time for me to step up and try some. I may some time down the road X pattern with two heritage 12H-30 75 Hz but I wanted to try a full cab of the 55Hz first so I could heard them by themselves. I can't wait till they get here.

 

[Buckeyedog]

Cool man, let us know when you get 'em in.

 

[ChurchHill]

Cool! I'll be looking forward to hearing what you think once you get them. IME, they take some breaking in, so they may seem a little bright at first.

 

[harddriver]

Cool! I'll be looking forward to hearing what you think once you get them. IME, they take some breaking in, so they may seem a little bright at first.

According to George at Metro in the vid comments the Heritages in the above clip were brand new out of the box. I also heard clips on Johan Segborn's channels with the 55hz Heritage and they were noticeably darker than original 55hz H-30's but they still had the woody quality about them which really drew me to them. Johan did not like the fact that they were darker but he did not have a 75hz to compare. If they sound like what I hear in the Metro and the Celestion vid clips I think I will really like them.

 

[ChurchHill]

Woody, yes, but I'm not sure I would describe mine as darker. Definitely different, maybe darker in the upper midrange, but they still have plenty of highs. Mine settled in nicely after 10-20 hours. Still different (which is a good thing, IMHO), still woody, still a little less upper mids, still plenty of cut, just smoother and, to me, just generally nicer. Of course, YMMV, but I think you'll be very happy with them.

 

[blackie13]

I had a quad of G12H H55 and I switched to 4 75Hz...(I tried the 55/75 combo too)
I Thought that the 55 lacked the mids I wanted...
That speaker had the most tight and detailed bass responce I have ever heard though...
the 75's didn't have that omph but they had more mids and less strident treble...
Hope you like them...
Make sure you use lots of gain and mids...55 loves them..

 

[harddriver]

Speakers got here today fellas! I only ordered them yesterday 8/23/18 at 2PM CST from Parts Express! They got to my house in 24 hours exactly, now that's great service, Well packed in the original 4 four pack with a single overpack box from Celestion, weighed about 49 pounds in total.

I got them installed and I've been playing them for about 2.5 hours. The highs were a bit strident for about the first half hour then started to mellow out nicely, the low mids/mids are the woody goodness that I hoped for and everything those clips exhibit and the low end is tight and controlled absolutely no flub. These literally sound pretty much dead on like my original 1979 12H-30's 75hz but with more low end and slightly less highs, they clank just like them but definitely have more of that WOODY knock that I hear in alot of vintage early to mids 70's 12H-30 55hz clips. By the end of 2 1/2hours of playing my 1969 superlead through this cab I can honestly say I am really pleased with these speakers. Much better than my experience with the Anniversary 12H-30 75hz those were the brightest harshest speakers I have ever played, it seemed like they never broke in.

One thing I have found out is I don't think I'm a Greenback guy, I think it's the the 96Db sensitivity that I don't like about the greenback, they always feel wooly to me on the low end and I have played the new EVH G12M20(which is a heritage speaker) EVH cab with my amps in the past as well as my blackback cabs. I think since initially started with 12H-30 very early on in my playing lifetime that is what my ears crave. I am going to put some more time on them but I am already considering pulling the other cab of greenbacks I have out for the Hertitage G12H-30 75HZ, we'll see, they're pretty spendy but it's nice to be satisfied almost immediately with the tone and feel of these speakers for a change. I feel like I got my money's worth. I think Celestion has done a good job on these Heritage 12H-30 series in replicating the vintage tone and feel when compared directly to my 1979 12H-30 75hz originals all the characteristics that I like are there.

Here's the place where I bought them, I got the quad for 796.00 no shipping and no tax. I think that's a decent deal along with super fast 24 hour delivery.
https://www.parts-express.com/cat/guita ... peakers/37

 

[Speeddemon]

I've found the Annis to be much brighter than either the Heritage G12H30-55Hz, Heritage G12H30-75Hz, and the Creamback G12M65. I haven't tried the Creamback G12H75, yet, but imagine the difference between the two Creambacks to be similar to the difference between the two Heritages (G12M25 GB and G12H30-75Hz).

Not that the Annis are bad speakers at all, though. I've had great luck with them brightening up darker amps, both in cabs and in combos. They're just not jack-of-all-trades, but then again, is any speaker? Maybe a few come close (V30, any version GB), maybe.

+1!

I had a pair of Annis in a 2x12 for a while, which I liked with the Engl Ironball (which is on the middy/darker side of things) and to a lesser extent with a H&K Tubemeister 18 (treble to 0), but hated them with the EVH 5150III 50W.
My pair of pre Rola G12H30 55Hz however...pure magical bliss with that amp. I still need to build a cab for them though.

 

[ChurchHill]

Glad you're liking them!! That's cool that they started breaking in after only an hour or two. Mine took a little longer, but once they did... very nice! Congrats!! And you're right, 24-hour turn-around is pretty freakin' amazing!

 

[harddriver]

Glad you're liking them!! That's cool that they started breaking in after only an hour or two. Mine took a little longer, but once they did... very nice! Congrats!! And you're right, 24-hour turn-around is pretty freakin' amazing!

I'm sure they have a way to go before being fully broken in, it did seem the unpleasant high end transients that was there when I first fired them up was lessened within the first hour or so. Either that or my ears became sensitized to it playing them for 2 hours. I wasn't playing at band levels but pretty loud. I have played them since and I still like what I hear. It's funny, I went through almost every variant of Greenback over the years, standard UK, 1978 Blackbacks, 6402 Kurt mueller's, EVH(Heritage), Scumback and I always seem to come to the same conclusion that I just wasn't digging them but I kept telling myself that I should. I guess they are not for me and that's fine. I will say the Anniversary 12H-30 (UK built) was a complete disappointment because I was expecting to hear my original blackback 12H-30 75hz speaker tone instead they bright and harsh with none of that woody character (YMMV). I gave them plenty of time to break in to be fair.... I ended up selling the entire 4x12 cab.

With my Anniversary experience I had concerns that the Heritage would not deliver at that pricepoint. Thankfully they have, is nice to finally be satisfied with the tone and feel almost immediately than say to myself, "they will sound better once broken in." I'm not saying Greenbacks aren't the favorite for alot of players, they are the speakers of rock and roll.....maybe I'll find a greenback one day that I gel with playing. For now I have to go with my preference that inspires me to play and what I like to hear.

I had ordered something from Parts Express years ago.... they popped up in my speaker search along with Sweetwater,GC and such. I was expecting them the following week since I placed the order so late in the week, it was a nice surprise.

 

[mooncobra]

Splatter... which G12H30s? 55Hz or 75Hz or Anniversaries? I would guess that the Creamback H30 would be closer to the 75Hz Heritage, but I don't have any of the Creamback H30s.

the anniversaries are awesome.

 

[ChurchHill]

Yeah, the Anniversaries are great, too! They are the brightest speakers I have, though (and I have some JBL K-120). I use the Annies to liven up some of the duller amps I have. I think they work great with V30s, too, even though I always thought that'd be an unlikely pairing.

 

[Racerxrated]

Glad you're liking them!! That's cool that they started breaking in after only an hour or two. Mine took a little longer, but once they did... very nice! Congrats!! And you're right, 24-hour turn-around is pretty freakin' amazing!

I'm sure they have a way to go before being fully broken in, it did seem the unpleasant high end transients that was there when I first fired them up was lessened within the first hour or so. Either that or my ears became sensitized to it playing them for 2 hours. I wasn't playing at band levels but pretty loud. I have played them since and I still like what I hear. It's funny, I went through almost every variant of Greenback over the years, standard UK, 1978 Blackbacks, 6402 Kurt mueller's, EVH(Heritage), Scumback and I always seem to come to the same conclusion that I just wasn't digging them but I kept telling myself that I should. I guess they are not for me and that's fine. I will say the Anniversary 12H-30 (UK built) was a complete disappointment because I was expecting to hear my original blackback 12H-30 75hz speaker tone instead they bright and harsh with none of that woody character (YMMV). I gave them plenty of time to break in to be fair.... I ended up selling the entire 4x12 cab.

With my Anniversary experience I had concerns that the Heritage would not deliver at that pricepoint. Thankfully they have, is nice to finally be satisfied with the tone and feel almost immediately than say to myself, "they will sound better once broken in." I'm not saying Greenbacks aren't the favorite for alot of players, they are the speakers of rock and roll.....maybe I'll find a greenback one day that I gel with playing. For now I have to go with my preference that inspires me to play and what I like to hear.

I had ordered something from Parts Express years ago.... they popped up in my speaker search along with Sweetwater,GC and such. I was expecting them the following week since I placed the order so late in the week, it was a nice surprise.

Great that you found your speakers....It's quite a long and expensive ride trying new speakers to find the "one". Your faves seem to be the Mueller blackbacks...man, I've had 3 original Marshall cabs with them, both G12Ms and G12Hs and they have been sterile city for me compared to almost ANY GB cab I've owned otherwise. Just not hearing the tone you all hear....maybe all 3 cabs were shot? But they took high volume well without farting out, seemed tight..I'd put the chinese RI above those BBs. My fav are the precursor to the blackbacks, the RIC cones. I have a BX cab with 6402s and they are very close to the RICs, maybe a bit less top end. 65s though for me.

 

[harddriver]

Great that you found your speakers....It's quite a long and expensive ride trying new speakers to find the "one". Your faves seem to be the Mueller blackbacks...man, I've had 3 original Marshall cabs with them, both G12Ms and G12Hs and they have been sterile city for me compared to almost ANY GB cab I've owned otherwise. Just not hearing the tone you all hear....maybe all 3 cabs were shot? But they took high volume well without farting out, seemed tight..I'd put the chinese RI above those BBs. My fav are the precursor to the blackbacks, the RIC cones. I have a BX cab with 6402s and they are very close to the RICs, maybe a bit less top end. 65s though for me.

Don't the 6402's have Mueller cones? I'm fairly certain that they do. When I got the 6402's it was my understanding that they were close to pre-rola tone, Ralle and Rockstah swore by them. I however was not super impressed by them, it was quite a disappointment. My blackback 12M25's can have a grating top end until you really drive them with considerable volume, the impedance is still within spec on them but they don't have the warm and woody character that I thought Greenbacks are supposed to possess. My BB 12H-30's are well balanced and have more woody character at all volume levels. The Heritage 55hz's have more woody character, more low end and seem warmer than my BB 12H-30 75hz. That fact that I like them now means I will only like them better as they fully break in, winning! One day I would like to play a real pre-rola Greenback that is in good condition just to hear them in person. What's interesting is that the 90th Anniversary G12-35XC is supposed to be a pre-rola pulsonic recreation but has a 100DB sensitivity like a 12H but it seems like it is a greenback variant, they don't really come out and say that though.

At this point I think it is just pure preference for the 12H-30 tonal qualities and characteristics for me. I'm convinced it is mostly to do with the sensitivity ratings between the two speaker type's 96DB for the 12M greenbacks and the 100DB for the 12H-30's.