Dead music industry theory

Radio play has certainly been dominated by payola since, probably the 40’s.

Holy shit…in 14 years (if I’m still around) I’ll have to start clarifying with the 1940’s.
Also wild. Our dog is 12 and when he passes in a few years, I’ll probably have one more, smaller dog lifespan left before I’m worm food myself. Interesting way to look at it, that you’d have a 4 legged countdown running around.
 
skoora said:
Radio play has certainly been dominated by payola since, probably the 40’s.

Holy shit…in 14 years (if I’m still around) I’ll have to start clarifying with the 1940’s.
Also wild. Our dog is 12 and when he passes in a few years, I’ll probably have one more, smaller dog lifespan left before I’m worm food myself. Interesting way to look at it, that you’d have a 4 legged countdown running around.
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Yeah i think people don't understand the difference between "Radio play" and breaking into the industry at all, which are related but not the same thing

Payola was big before Telco in 1996 for just that - getting radio play on privately owned radio stations

Now you have to use a version of digital "payola" to do everything in marketing your band and having it break through in any meaningful way, which is the part that people don't seem to understand.

Underground bands on indie labels have sold millions of records without a cent of payola from the 1940s until like 2010, which is what I was alluding to earlier

That seems to be the dividing line where it became impossible, even in the independent space, for anyone to break through
 
DanTravis62 said:
It's sad watching it happen with complete certainty, because you know everyone is too lazy to do anything about it
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It's the new lazy Door Dash fatfuk generation..
Going to a Drive Thru for food isn't convenient enough anymore.. People pay someone to do it for them.

This morning my neighbors had some food delivered and it sat on their porch cold as a corpse. I was outside and was bigtimed by some 60 something year old raggety bitch that delivered it as she drove by like I'm the loser.. LOL

Last week I walked in to place an order for a Large Pizza at Hungry Howies.. The phone never rang while I waited because it goes to a call center now.. And then a fat ass Door Dash guy came it with his dick smugged phone in his hand to grab a DD Order for some shlub that brought in a 3rd party to bring them a pizza when it's the one place that always had delivery.

Fuck you all.. Get off your ass..
 
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VonBonfire said:
Name some of the bands.
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This is a stupid question there are literally hundreds if not thousands

All the punk bands that have ever existed before 1994

Every metal band that has existed after 1992 but before 2010

A million other indie bands in other genres

The whole point is there are entire genres that had their own ecosystems without radio, let alone "payola"
 
VonBonfire said:
Hundreds of punk/metal/indie bands sold millions of records without payola?

Ok, name five.
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Minor Threat/Fugazi
Bad Religion
Helloween
Opeth
Stratovarius


basically I can name every band in every independent genre on earth that doesn't get played on terrestrial/traditional radio, that's why the question is stupid
 
DanTravis62 said:
Minor Threat/Fugazi
Bad Religion
Helloween
Opeth
Stratovarius


basically I can name every band in every independent genre on earth that doesn't get played on terrestrial/traditional radio, that's why the question is stupid
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After googling some of the punk bands for those numbers only a handful appear to have moved over a million units without mainstream airplay. Nofx, Pennywise, Bad Brains, Ramones, Misfits....Minor Threat is listed as having sold a half million units.
 
VonBonfire said:
After googling some of the punk bands for those numbers only a handful appear to have moved over a million units without mainstream airplay. Nofx, Pennywise, Bad Brains, Ramones, Misfits....Minor Threat is listed as having sold a half million units.
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I was counting fugazi/minor threat as one thing, yeah you named 5 right there, and there's a shit ton of metal bands who've sold millions of records without mainstream airplay, too

Those are just the genres i'm familiar with, i'm sure it's the same for a bunch of other indie focused genres as well, and it was that way for decades

The important part is that it was very possible to succeed and make a living (even sell millions of records!) without payola for half a century
 
DanTravis62 said:
I was counting fugazi/minor threat as one thing, yeah you named 5 right there, and there's a shit ton of metal bands who've sold millions of records without mainstream airplay, too

Those are just the genres i'm familiar with, i'm sure it's the same for a bunch of other indie focused genres as well, and it was that way for decades

The important part is that it was very possible to succeed and make a living (even sell millions of records!) without payola for half a century
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I mean, sold "millions of records" collectively, or a hundreds/thousands (your words) of bands that individually sold millions of records as indie artists? I don't see that 2nd part being very true beyond a handful from each genre. Nothing musical exists in a vacuum without outside support and plenty of those people had connections or money support and/or were in a location that put them in a better spot to gain a foothold in the industry to begin with, payola or not.
 
VonBonfire said:
I mean, sold "millions of records" collectively, or a hundreds/thousands (your words) of bands that individually sold millions of records as indie artists? I don't see that 2nd part being very true beyond a handful from each genre. Nothing musical exists in a vacuum without outside support and plenty of those people had connections or money support and/or were in a location that put them in a better spot to gain a foothold in the industry to begin with, payola or not.
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Did they have other marketing? Yes, they all promoted themselves in other ways

But payola is something very specific, and i'm not talking about all marketing of a band

Did you watch the video in the OP? Instead of traditional radio "payola", the reason no independent bands can "break through" without significant financial backing is because you need to use the new "digital payola" he outlines in the video - and instead of it just applying to mainstream pop music on terrestrial radio, it applies to everyone which is a very, VERY different situation then it was from say, the 1950s to the 2000s,
 
So pretty much anyone "Making it" in the music business these days is garbage.

Think I'll just go curl up in the fetal position and listen to Master of Reality.
 
DanTravis62 said:
Did they have other marketing? Yes, they all promoted themselves in other ways

But payola is something very specific, and i'm not talking about all marketing of a band

Did you watch the video in the OP? Instead of traditional radio "payola", the reason no independent bands can "break through" without significant financial backing is because you need to use the new "digital payola" he outlines in the video - and instead of it just applying to mainstream pop music on terrestrial radio, it applies to everyone which is a very, VERY different situation then it was from say, the 1950s to the 2000s,
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I'm not suggesting the indies used payola, I'm suggesting very few of them made sales numbers in the millions.

I watched a portion of the video. It's a guy offering an opinion on why bands can't break through without significant financial backing, yet, that has always been the case. Success isn't built in a vacuum. It takes money. Now it takes even more money because there are more artists fighting for a piece of a smaller pie.

Just googling around some of those artists...fat mike for example. His dad co-signed the loan to get his record label off the ground and was a jazz clarinet player, and they were in the LA area....all of those things put him at an advantage over some dude in rural New Mexico trying to be a successful punk musician.

SRV was another name you mentioned. There is a recent documentary on Stevie and Jimmy that details the team of (successful) people that had to be assembled around Stevie in order to get eyes on him. And they had the benefit of being in the Austin area. Jimmy was making more money than his father just doing gigs before he was out of high school. Otherwise they would just be some unknowns playing blues gigs around here like all the rest....
 
VonBonfire said:
I'm not suggesting the indies used payola, I'm suggesting very few of them made sales numbers in the millions.

I watched a portion of the video. It's a guy offering an opinion on why bands can't break through without significant financial backing, yet, that has always been the case. Success isn't built in a vacuum. It takes money. Now it takes even more money because there are more artists fighting for a piece of a smaller pie.

Just googling around some of those artists...fat mike for example. His dad co-signed the loan to get his record label off the ground and was a jazz clarinet player, and they were in the LA area....all of those things put him at an advantage over some dude in rural New Mexico trying to be a successful punk musician.

SRV was another name you mentioned. There is a recent documentary on Stevie and Jimmy that details the team of (successful) people that had to be assembled around Stevie in order to get eyes on him. And they had the benefit of being in the Austin area. Jimmy was making more money than his father just doing gigs before he was out of high school. Otherwise they would just be some unknowns playing blues gigs around here like all the rest....
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Having lucky breaks (like having a team behind you, your geograhic area, your dad loaning you money) isn't "payola" VBF

And you need to watch the entire video because the point isn't "significant financial backing" and that isn't what payola is in the first place.

Yes, you need lucky breaks and financial or other windfalls to make it, that isn't even remotely the point

The point is that there are a handful of bot farms that fake comments, views, and interest to game the algorithm, and they are quite literally the only way for a band to breakthrough in this digital wasteland we find ourselves in. That isn't in the same universe as Fat Mike getting a loan from his dad to start his record label (which, by the way, NOFXs biggest selling records weren't on his record label)
 
There is nothing fake on the internet, it’s all legit
Sorry, my bot got loose…

Will check out the videos later but with millions of songs constantly being uploaded all the time, it’s getting harder and harder to wade through and find something good.
 
stratjacket said:
There is nothing fake on the internet, it’s all legit
Sorry, my bot got loose…

Will check out the videos later but with millions of songs constantly being uploaded all the time, it’s getting harder and harder to wade through and find something good.
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That's exactly what's being gamed by the bot farms, ironically
 
DanTravis62 said:
Having lucky breaks (like having a team behind you, your geograhic area, your dad loaning you money) isn't "payola" VBF

And you need to watch the entire video because the point isn't "significant financial backing" and that isn't what payola is in the first place.

Yes, you need lucky breaks and financial or other windfalls to make it, that isn't even remotely the point

The point is that there are a handful of bot farms that fake comments, views, and interest to game the algorithm, and they are quite literally the only way for a band to breakthrough in this digital wasteland we find ourselves in. That isn't in the same universe as Fat Mike getting a loan from his dad to start his record label (which, by the way, NOFXs biggest selling records weren't on his record label)
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You made the claim that hundreds if not thousands of bands were million sellers because it was possible to do so in the pre-internet age, and now it's not possible. I showed that a relatively small handful of bands actually achieved that in the pre-internet age.

You made a claim that doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. Bands and rock music fell out of favor around the turn of the century so saying it's impossible for an indie band to make that million sales mark isn't solely due to the digital age, but also by musical tastes of younger people, who by and large are the largest consumers of music, and do not listen to bands and rock music in the numbers they did in previous times.
 
DanTravis62 said:
Having lucky breaks (like having a team behind you, your geograhic area, your dad loaning you money) isn't "payola" VBF
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Having a band like “Rock Bitch” supporting you, is a good idea too.

Or an uncle called “Norm”.

But the sad act below don’t even deserve the steam off my shit. I can’t understand why the audience aren’t throwing bags of piss at it.

 
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VonBonfire said:
You made the claim that hundreds if not thousands of bands were million sellers because it was possible to do so in the pre-internet age, and now it's not possible. I showed that a relatively small handful of bands actually achieved that in the pre-internet age.

You made a claim that doesn't really hold up to scrutiny. Bands and rock music fell out of favor around the turn of the century so saying it's impossible for an indie band to make that million sales mark isn't solely due to the digital age, but also by musical tastes of younger people, who by and large are the largest consumers of music, and do not listen to bands and rock music in the numbers they did in previous times.
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vbf.jpg



That's complete bullshit. You made the claim that everyone has always used payola to succeed in music. It's not true.
 
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