Did anyone just see that Obama speech?

[Jordon]

Very well put, and a blind liberal view. My view of God and Christianity has nothing to do with the liberal mindset. I am not going to debate this with you as I can see you have your minimalistic view of this already. Can you say socialism. And I think the Church and people of America should help others, just not let the Government regulate it, everything they touch goes to crap, Can you say Social Security.

Hows supporting others through state regulation a LIBERAL view?

Why is supporting thousands or millions of homeless people minimalistic exactly?

Please, "socialist"? Give me a break, are you a complete idiot? I said that those that cannot provide for themselves should be looked out for, especially in the case of someone with Autism, or Down Syndrome, or Paraplegia - the government should take the moral highground and do that. Becuase, lets face it, not a whole lot of other people would help.

Same goes for the homeless, many of them just need a chance to improve and start again, it's completely immoral to ignore them and lecture them on life choices. I'm sure if there were migating circumstances they regret them, no need to get morally superior to the less fortunate.

The reason your government regulations go to crap is because most of your policies are inefficent and generally just shit in every facet. This isn't to say that having government regulated healthcare, or social security is a bad idea, or impractical - it's not and works very well in dozens of other countries, just that your current models are terrible.

Moral of the story - Get a real government, one that can legislate properly and support those less fortunate - neither of which are BAD ideas.

You need to get a fucking clue about the state of things before you go off on ignorant rants about OUR system.

Seemed pretty logical to me.

Ands the no starving people is absolute bullshit too. Take a walk around 26th and California in Chicago and tell me there isn't at least on person starving. Go take a look at the homeless that gather around Western and Ogden just a 1/4 mile away. I see them several times a week, and I DO give them something, if I can. Yea, there are people starving. To make that statement is just absolute bullshit ignorance.

 

[Marshall Freak]

I do not disagree with you at all. I just do not want my taxes taking care of the guy who spends his day drinking beer instead of working. The types you name above all need help. People in general should help and not expect the government to do everything for them. People are responsible, when is everyone going to grow up and not expect handouts all the time. The people you refer to all need help truly, and we as a society should help them period.

Moral of the story don't expect or rely on the government when people can make the difference themselves. The liberals want you to believe otherwise. So how is life in Australia? From your opinions it must be perfect.

Sure theres always a fine line between someone that needs help and someone who abuses the services provided, and it's not always clear cut.

Some people can make the difference, agreed, many can't - I've given examples previously.

Life in Australia is far from perfect - we have out share of problems. If this was a thread about issues in Australia politics or legislature I'd be just as critical, if not more so, than I am now.

Feel free to ask me any questions on Australia's successes or failures.

I think it's because we feel like we give enough already and that of the amount we give, too much of it gets wasted in beauracracy. The reason we may feel like we give enough already?

Understood. Seems to me the spending is not being utilised efficently or effectively. I'm not sure how relevant the figure you've quoted is - certainly it's a good starting point but I'd be interested to find out how much goes directly to helping homeless or disabled people. Public health care, collage aid - all good things but aren't directly helping the average homeless dude on the street - all that money could go into healthcare and not a cent to homeless people and it could still be called "federal aid". Though obviously a homeless guy will benefit from free health care.

No, There's around 744,000 homeless in the US. Out of 300,000,000 that's not an astronomical number when you consider how many of them have put themselves in that situation. And yes, there are programs to help them out if they decide to try.

I'd like to see your source on this figure. Your showing a remarkle lack on compassion for people that could have absolutely NO say in their situations - I'm sure there are people that are responsible for their homelessness. I'm sure there are many that aren't. I'm even more sure many of them want to and could reform and start again if people gave them a helping hand.

Unfortauntely most people won't - this is why the government should step in.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... less_x.htm

1/4 of 1%

Most have been given multiple chances, but even that study says that over 1/4 of them are "Chronically homeless"

One thing you need to understand is that in the US we have a long standing tradition of pulling yourself up by the bootstraps. Everyone is given every opportunity to succeed, but when you not only fall down but keep jumping into that ditch, You're probably going to die in that ditch regardless of how the government keeps bailing you out. A guy I used to play in a band with is about half a step from being homeless right now, and no matter how many times his Mommy keeps bailing him out, he keeps diving into the bottle. We tried to get him to stop many times, everyone that knows him has, and when his mom dies and he inherits her money, he'll spend through it like a democrat in office and I'd bet before he's done with the money, he'll have died in that bottle. There's nothing you, I or the government can do about it.

 

[thiswaythatway]

There are literally NO starving people in the US. It's the law here, no hospital can deny anyone of service, and there are tons of programs that help disabled people help. Our poorest people that live on Welfare still have cars, Air conditioned homes, TV's,DVD players etc. There are some that slip through the cracks etc, but for the most part all they had to do was ask.

are you serious?

I echo this statement. I'm not knocking you as a person or calling you stupid, but Marshall Freak your certainly misinformed in this area. To say your seeing things through rose coloured glasses might be the understatement of the century.

The number of Americans working 2-3 jobs just to make ends meet in insane, current estimates on the number of truly homeless people hover around the 20-40 MILLION mark. That's just the reality, thats a large population that isn't offered the kind of legislature they obviously need.

Did you just pull 20-40 million out of your rear-end? The reality is you're a world away and there's no way there's that many homeless people in America, STOP believing all the bullshit on the internet. If there were that many homeless then we could have just elected Giuliani President and he would make them all vanish, just like how got rid of all the bums in NYC.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

I presume that "chronically homeless" is similar to the situation you described? I wouldn't want to presume what that term means, first I've heard of it!

I admitted there are people who freeload off the government - sure they exist. But in my opinion and experience these are an extreme minority of the homeless - truly homeless - population.

The problem with a lot of the "help" thats offered is that it's unattainable for homeless people. I'm sure these cases exist in the States as well. For instance, a homeless person I talked to once said he couldn't receive the financial assistance he needed, or food vouchers because the government couldn't send them to someone lacking a physical address.

Also governments have a way or claiming increases in the amounts given when in reality they take say $9 out of the $10 they promised. I'm sure this isn't an isolated incident at all. Especially when Chubtone was talking about red tape.

Give me awhile to check out your source, I'm in the middle of studying statistics analysis so hopefully won't take too long.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

Did you just pull 20-40 million out of your rear-end?

No - but I'll be double checking my sources to make sure it wasn't an error on my part, or on theirs. Statstics are rarely without flaw. Granted 40 million is quite the excess.

 

[Jordon]

"744,00 homeless"

Where did you get that figure? Seriously, I'd love to read that report.

EDIT: Nevermind haha.

 

[Marshall Freak]

I presume that "chronically homeless" is similar to the situation you described? I wouldn't want to presume what that term means, first I've heard of it!

I admitted there are people who freeload off the government - sure they exist. But in my opinion and experience these are an extreme minority of the homeless - truly homeless - population.

The problem with a lot of the "help" thats offered is that it's unattainable for homeless people. I'm sure these cases exist in the States as well. For instance, a homeless person I talked to once said he couldn't receive the financial assistance he needed, or food vouchers because the government couldn't send them to someone lacking a physical address.

Also governments have a way or claiming increases in the amounts given when in reality they take say $9 out of the $10 they promised. I'm sure this isn't an isolated incident at all. Especially when Chubtone was talking about red tape.

Give me awhile to check out your source, I'm in the middle of studying statistics analysis so hopefully won't take too long.

My experience with the homeless, has been that 99% of the ones I've met are drunk, drug addicted bums that refuse to climb out of their mess because they're too far gone. But most of my dealings have been when I visited large cities, and that's what I ran into. I live out in the sticks, we have like 3 homeless people here, and two of those are people that sold their house and are living with their parents until they decide to build or what to buy.

I agree wholeheartedly about too much being tied up in red tape, and bullshit. I've had to deal with WAY too many govt programs in the past, and it's one of the main reasons I'm completely against universal health care.

 

[Marshall Freak]

"744,00 homeless"

Where did you get that figure? Seriously, I'd love to read that report.

I already linked it about 5-6 posts back.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... less_x.htm

 

[thiswaythatway]

Check out Obama girl.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKsoXHYICqU

 

[Chubtone]

Did you just pull 20-40 million out of your rear-end?

No - but I'll be double checking my sources to make sure it wasn't an error on my part, or on theirs. Statstics are rarely without flaw. Granted 40 million is quite the excess.

Trust me it was a mistake and a ridiculous one at that. I'd like the guy who gave you that figure to be the one who tabulates my next paycheck.

 

[Jordon]

"744,00 homeless"

Where did you get that figure? Seriously, I'd love to read that report.

I already linked it about 5-6 posts back.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/200 ... less_x.htm

I'm a jackass, sorry!

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

MF - I read the article, sorry I don't trust that source. The study might have been done corretly but theres no mention of how it was conducted, and when measuring something like homeless people method is really, really important in gauging how realistic the survey is.

In all probability it might have been done quite exactly but that article isn't providing me with enough information to say that conclusively.

I could go into detail why if your interested, but thats a tangent, and a fucking boring one at that.

I agree wholeheartedly about too much being tied up in red tape, and bullshit. I've had to deal with WAY too many govt programs in the past, and it's one of the main reasons I'm completely against universal health care.

Well I'm just realting my experiences. I don't think people that are "so far gone" would realistically be able to take advantage of aid to it's fullest potential. It doesn't have to be in handing out free money. Maybe a government job or something similar.

Universal Health Care is a different issue, we can go there - but it's been proven to work in dozens on countries. So as long as it's implemented well and effectively theres no reason to fear. It couldn't be any worse that current American wait times.

Again just relating my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with American public health care.

 

[Jordon]

I for one, am for a decent, plausible health care system. It's hard as fuck to find a job at my age that has decent benefits without gouging out almost 40% of your paycheck. When you don't bring in a whole lot, that kinda sucks.

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

I for one, am for a decent, plausible health care system. It's hard as fuck to find a job at my age that has decent benefits without gouging out almost 40% of your paycheck. When you don't bring in a whole lot, that kinda sucks.

Move here, or to Europe. Good pay, good people, good health care. Weather's kind of shit during summer, gear prices are higher but so are waged.

Women are hotter here too. A lot hotter.

 

[Marshall Freak]

MF - I read the article, sorry I don't trust that source. The study might have been done corretly but theres no mention of how it was conducted, and when measuring something like homeless people method is really, really important in gauging how realistic the survey is.

In all probability it might have been done quite exactly but that article isn't providing me with enough information to say that conclusively.

I could go into detail why if your interested, but thats a tangent, and a fucking boring one at that.

I agree wholeheartedly about too much being tied up in red tape, and bullshit. I've had to deal with WAY too many govt programs in the past, and it's one of the main reasons I'm completely against universal health care.

Well I'm just realting my experiences. I don't think people that are "so far gone" would realistically be able to take advantage of aid to it's fullest potential. It doesn't have to be in handing out free money. Maybe a government job or something similar.

Universal Health Care is a different issue, we can go there - but it's been proven to work in dozens on countries. So as long as it's implemented well and effectively theres no reason to fear. It couldn't be any worse that current American wait times.

Again just relating my PERSONAL EXPERIENCE with American public health care.

It doesn't really matter if you trust the source. It's a well reputed newspaper reporting on a government count. The numbers are NO where near 20-40 million.

Universal health care has been implemented in quite a few countries, and it's one of the main reasons why there are quite a few people from those countries that come to the US to pay for surgeries because their wait lists are longer than ours. Canada and the UK are two of the main ones I've read about.

 

[Jordon]

I for one, am for a decent, plausible health care system. It's hard as fuck to find a job at my age that has decent benefits without gouging out almost 40% of your paycheck. When you don't bring in a whole lot, that kinda sucks.

Move here, or to Europe. Good pay, good people, good health care. Weather's kind of shit during summer, gear prices are higher but so are waged.

Women are hotter here too. A lot hotter.

There's nothing like a smokin' chick with an Australian accent!

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

I for one, am for a decent, plausible health care system. It's hard as fuck to find a job at my age that has decent benefits without gouging out almost 40% of your paycheck. When you don't bring in a whole lot, that kinda sucks.

Move here, or to Europe. Good pay, good people, good health care. Weather's kind of shit during summer, gear prices are higher but so are waged.

Women are hotter here too. A lot hotter.

There's nothing like a smokin' chick with an Australian accent!

Well - personally Melbourne has the second highest number of Vietnamese people living in it. Second only to Saigon! Works for me!

 

[Chubtone]

Women are hotter here too. A lot hotter.

I read the comment, sorry I don't trust that source. The study might have been done corretly but theres no mention of how it was conducted, and when measuring something like female hotness method is really, really important in gauging how realistic the survey is.

In all probability it might have been done quite exactly but that article isn't providing me with enough information to say that conclusively.

You ever been to California my friend? And if Australian women are so hot, I feel really sorry for them being stuck with a bunch of wankers who look like Crocodile Dundee, Steve Erwin, Angus Young, Bon Scott, and Frank Gambale

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

It doesn't really matter if you trust the source. It's a well reputed newspaper reporting on a government count. The numbers are NO where near 20-40 million.

Universal health care has been implemented in quite a few countries, and it's one of the main reasons why there are quite a few people from those countries that come to the US to pay for surgeries because their wait lists are longer than ours. Canada and the UK are two of the main ones I've read about.

Well, I'm NOT taking a source at face value - especially from a news article. I'm sorry, there are SO many flaws in media reports that come from data, it's obscene. Reputable or not I gaurentee theres at least ONE flaw in there, in fact I already pointed my major qualm with it no information on how data was gathered.

As far as universal health care goes - personally I see no issue with having it and having private for those that can afford it, as I said earlier it's the best of both worlds. If people want to pay to jump the cue by going to a different country that doesn't automatically mean the system has failed. If people were afraid of Canadian or English surgeons because they sucked then yes, I'd say the system is shite.

However look at Scandanavian countries for an example of Universal Health Care working exceptionally well. Australia's works pretty well too, not flawlessly, not by a long shot - but my experiences in the ER here and the ER in the US. I don't know why you guys put up with it!

 

[theNoseBleedKid]

Women are hotter here too. A lot hotter.

I read the comment, sorry I don't trust that source. The study might have been done corretly but theres no mention of how it was conducted, and when measuring something like female hotness method is really, really important in gauging how realistic the survey is.

In all probability it might have been done quite exactly but that article isn't providing me with enough information to say that conclusively.

You ever been to California my friend? And if Australian women are so hot, I feel really sorry for them being stuck with a bunch of wankers who look like Crocodile Dundee, Steve Erwin, Angus Young, Bon Scott, and Frank Gambale

In all seriousness. Californian women were overated from what I observed.

It's to our eternal shame that Paul Hogan and Steve Irwin are what people think of when they think of Australia!