Diezel VH4 clips with BBE and without BBE....

  • Thread starter Thread starter Mailman1971
  • Start date Start date
Motorpud":z38ydvaa said:
jcj":z38ydvaa said:
I get it.....I'm pretty sure I could use more practice and less drinking, too. :lol: :LOL:

Dude, 90% of the guys on here need to drink less beer and practice more, and I'm one of them :lol: :LOL:

Lord Toneking":z38ydvaa said:
That amp is too good for you....the BBE makes little difference with that level of playing and shouldnt even be debated.

buy fewer amps, practice more and drink less


I'm sorry but I've had a few beers and I'm being brutally honest :(

Talk about taking the fun out of something. What a dick move :thumbsdown:


I am one of those guys also who needs to practice more. Lord sometimes I feel like I have hardly touched my guitar and it bums me out.
 
Hey Dan !
What were your settings on the BBE ?
Maybe just a bit to high ?
 
headown":1akjap12 said:
Hey Dan !
What were your settings on the BBE ?
Maybe just a bit to high ?
Yeah, lots of players dial the BBE in really bad resulting in crap tone.
Also, it should be used in the loop, so the poweramp gets the influence, not the the preamp up front.
Low Contour 9 o' clock, Process 2 o' clock.
 
nbarts":sebe69rk said:
Man, it's hard to believe how close minded people can be. :confused: When you posted your first video with BBE, nobody seemed to mind it, until they knew you have one in there, now they all went over the board explaining how & why you shouldn't use it. How's using a BBE any different than using any other peace of gear? VH4 is an amp, that's all it is, an amp.
+100 on this. If you put a reverb pedal thru the loop......it changes the 'flavor' of the amp. Not the amp.
Or a delay pedal....
or any processor. Hell I read where guys run Axe FX in the loop of their Diezels. That would change the tone I would think? :lol: :LOL:
 
D-Rock":1qpluuac said:
headown":1qpluuac said:
Hey Dan !
What were your settings on the BBE ?
Maybe just a bit to high ?
Yeah, lots of players dial the BBE in really bad resulting in crap tone.
Also, it should be used in the loop, so the poweramp gets the influence, not the the preamp up front.
Low Contour 9 o' clock, Process 2 o' clock.
I have it in the loop with the process barely on. Maybe at 9 oclock.
either way I am still going to play around with more settings without it.
I downloaded the PDF file from the Diezel site for some settings. :thumbsup:
 
Motorpud":29br83ls said:
saxxamafone":29br83ls said:
put it this way

i don't think i've seen a BBE in ANY pro's rig
guys who seem to really know tone understand you don't need one

my opinion of course :thumbsup:

Well, there there looks to be over 100 on this list and they all seem to be pro guitarists :D

http://www.bbesound.com/artists/
Yeah! If it's good enough for "Bal Sac The Jaws Of Death" and "Beefcake The Mighty," then it's good enough for Danno! :lol: :LOL:
 
Beyond Black":sotth5u7 said:
Motorpud":sotth5u7 said:
saxxamafone":sotth5u7 said:
put it this way

i don't think i've seen a BBE in ANY pro's rig
guys who seem to really know tone understand you don't need one

my opinion of course :thumbsup:

Well, there there looks to be over 100 on this list and they all seem to be pro guitarists :D

http://www.bbesound.com/artists/
Yeah! If it's good enough for "Bal Sac The Jaws Of Death" and "Beefcake The Mighty," then it's good enough for Danno! :lol: :LOL:
Damn right! :lol: :LOL:

Actually I hooked up with it after reading that Scott Ian and Alex Skolnik used them.
They are big influences for me. I am one of the weirdos that actually like the tone off the early Testament albums. :yes:
 
glassjaw7":48mvv8u0 said:
Lord Toneking":48mvv8u0 said:
That amp is too good for you....the BBE makes little difference with that level of playing and shouldnt even be debated.

buy fewer amps, practice more and drink less


I'm sorry but I've had a few beers and I'm being brutally honest :(
That's just...not cool at all. :no: If you're going by that logic, then most rock bands that are famous deserve to be playing Peavey Rage 158's. You don't have to be a mega-shredder to know what tone you like. It's the people that don't even play or are rich and just starting out, or buy it because it's "cool" that don't deserve amps like that. Dan is passionate about playing guitar and his tone, and plays cool stuff so he is worthy of the Diezel! :yes:
Well put brotha. :thumbsup: Dan, who gives a flying fuck what anybody says. If playing through a Diezel (even with a BBE ;) ) makes you happy, then that's all that matters. I'm not telling you anything that you didn't already know. Rock on. :D :rock:
 
Bronco":2pif2uex said:
With an amp like this, I have to agree with everyone...adding a BBE to the equation is akin to adding Coke to a fine bourbon like Woodford, Basil Hayden's, Booker's...hell, even adding Coke to Jack Daniel's is blasphemy IMO :gethim:

So I guess if you're a Jack and Coke guy, then go ahead with the BBE :rock:
I do like Jack and coke..... :lol: :LOL:



Getting a new amp too.....
Going to re-finance my house and get the Dumble.
Comes with a free T-Shirt.
I am going to wear it when I play that amp.... :hys:

And yes....the BBE will be running in the Dumble.....with a Boss Metal Zone in front of the amp! :lol: :LOL:
 
Actually its all cool. Everyone likes different things. I will try and re-dial in the VH4 without the BBE.
I am open minded. Seriously I didnt think it would erupt to all this! :lol: :LOL:

Sounds like Donbarzini and I hi-jacked this thread!! :D
 
I'd say do whichever one you like the best - I did notice you played longer with the BBE on :) ... or use both sounds depending on the song - can you use a footswitch with the BBE?
 
Mailman1971":apv9gegu said:
Beyond Black":apv9gegu said:
Motorpud":apv9gegu said:
saxxamafone":apv9gegu said:
put it this way

i don't think i've seen a BBE in ANY pro's rig
guys who seem to really know tone understand you don't need one

my opinion of course :thumbsup:

Well, there there looks to be over 100 on this list and they all seem to be pro guitarists :D

http://www.bbesound.com/artists/
Yeah! If it's good enough for "Bal Sac The Jaws Of Death" and "Beefcake The Mighty," then it's good enough for Danno! :lol: :LOL:
Damn right! :lol: :LOL:

Actually I hooked up with it after reading that Scott Ian and Alex Skolnik used them.
They are big influences for me. I am one of the weirdos that actually like the tone off the early Testament albums. :yes:
"The New Order" and " Practice What You Preach" had killer tones! :rock: I didn't realize that we of that opinion were the minority. :confused:
 
Beyond Black":2at94zxk said:
Mailman1971":2at94zxk said:
Beyond Black":2at94zxk said:
Motorpud":2at94zxk said:
saxxamafone":2at94zxk said:
put it this way

i don't think i've seen a BBE in ANY pro's rig
guys who seem to really know tone understand you don't need one

my opinion of course :thumbsup:

Well, there there looks to be over 100 on this list and they all seem to be pro guitarists :D

http://www.bbesound.com/artists/
Yeah! If it's good enough for "Bal Sac The Jaws Of Death" and "Beefcake The Mighty," then it's good enough for Danno! :lol: :LOL:
Damn right! :lol: :LOL:

Actually I hooked up with it after reading that Scott Ian and Alex Skolnik used them.
They are big influences for me. I am one of the weirdos that actually like the tone off the early Testament albums. :yes:
"The New Order" and " Practice What You Preach" had killer tones! :rock: I didn't realize that we of that opinion were the minority. :confused:
Since we do play alot of metal....the BBE dont change the Voice of the Diezel....and it sure dont make it sound solid state. It would be the same thing as running a EQ in the loop and adding a little more bass and taking a little mid out.
 
nbarts":1aa9wliq said:
Man, it's hard to believe how close minded people can be. :confused: When you posted your first video with BBE, nobody seemed to mind it, until they knew you have one in there, now they all went over the board explaining how & why you shouldn't use it. How's using a BBE any different than using any other peace of gear? VH4 is an amp, that's all it is, an amp.

Just an amp??? Heresy, sir, Heresy!

:banhim: :lol: :LOL:
 
Using the BBE is like the Herbert mid cut for poor people and more leaving the "vintage" territory. :lol: :LOL:
I´m using both knobs at 3 from 10 and get a great result using it in the loop. :thumbsup:
I also like my girlfriend in sexy underwear !!! hahaha
:doh:
 
headown":1fipi21f said:
Using the BBE is like the Herbert mid cut for poor people and more leaving the "vintage" territory. :lol: :LOL:
I´m using both knobs at 3 from 10 and get a great result using it in the loop. :thumbsup:
I also like my girlfriend in sexy underwear !!! hahaha
:doh:
Couldnt of said it better myself! :thumbsup:
To me the VOICE of the Diezel is intact. No solid state sounds here. I have owned TONS of amps....tube and solid state. This baby will knock you down! :rock:
 
Mailman1971":kfhlfmh0 said:
Beyond Black":kfhlfmh0 said:
Mailman1971":kfhlfmh0 said:
Beyond Black":kfhlfmh0 said:
Motorpud":kfhlfmh0 said:
saxxamafone":kfhlfmh0 said:
put it this way

i don't think i've seen a BBE in ANY pro's rig
guys who seem to really know tone understand you don't need one

my opinion of course :thumbsup:

Well, there there looks to be over 100 on this list and they all seem to be pro guitarists :D

http://www.bbesound.com/artists/
Yeah! If it's good enough for "Bal Sac The Jaws Of Death" and "Beefcake The Mighty," then it's good enough for Danno! :lol: :LOL:
Damn right! :lol: :LOL:

Actually I hooked up with it after reading that Scott Ian and Alex Skolnik used them.
They are big influences for me. I am one of the weirdos that actually like the tone off the early Testament albums. :yes:
"The New Order" and " Practice What You Preach" had killer tones! :rock: I didn't realize that we of that opinion were the minority. :confused:
Since we do play alot of metal....the BBE dont change the Voice of the Diezel....and it sure dont make it sound solid state. It would be the same thing as running a EQ in the loop and adding a little more bass and taking a little mid out.

its doing more than that, here is some info on the BBE:


There is a fair amount of mystique surrounding the "Sonic Maximizer®" products produced by BBE, of Huntington Beach, CA. The online demos of the Sonic Maximizer® seemed reasonably impressive to me at first. After some critical listening, I couldn't really tell if there was some "magic" at work or simple equalization. I listened ad nauseum and concluded this sounded like a 3bx... a very old product produced by a company called "dbx" (more about that, later). In the future I will add more information regarding technical details of the Sonic Maximizer®, but for now I will give my $0.02 on what I know thus far.

There is a PDF file of the 482i Sonic Maximizer® available from the BBE website. This document also includes a schematic for that unit. Now before you jump out of your chair and download it, hang on. The schematic merely shows some passive components connected to some "wonder chip", and little else. The documentation does not seem to explain exactly what the circuit does. Again, we get back to vague descriptions of the sound alterations produced with little regard for what is actually going on in a technical sense. That is good marketing but bad for some techie that wants to know what is really going on.

Here's the real story as I see it right now. This device is not some super-duper DSP with a zillion bytes of code to modify sound. It is in fact, a fairly low-tech analog filter arrangement with a somewhat novel twist. The circuit is basically a state-variable filter with each of the three possible outputs summed by an opamp. The low-pass output provides an adjustable bass-boost via the "LO-CONTOUR" potentiometer located on the front panel. That is about all that it appears to do. The "sizzle" is provided by what would be the high-pass output of the state-variable filter. The audio input is sampled by a peak detector circuit which is in turn, applied to the control port of a VCA. There is a front panel potentiometer called "PROCESS" which adjusts the amount of high-pass VCA-emphasized signal presented to the output summing opamp. As the input signal level increases, the amount of high-pass filter output is further increased by the peak detector-VCA chain. The amount of additional, boosted high-pass signal is what the "PROCESS" potentiometer adjusts. The bandpass output of the filter is presented to the summing opamp at a fixed level. I assume this is the bulk of the audio signal.There are some inherent phase shifts introduced by the filter.

I was rather disappointed in the apparent lack of "magic" within the box. The marketing hype suggested some really way-out approach to sound enhancement. On the surface of looking at technical documentation, I don't see much magic. I feel compelled to point out that I do not own a 482i and have never used one. My only exposure to the unit is from the demos on the BBE website. I could easily have missed the boat on what this unit does. But my experience tells me otherwise.

technical:

The heart of the 482i is a "wonder chip" that is manufactured by NJR (New Japan Radio). I suppose the chip was designed by BBE engineers and is fabricated by NJR. The device is known as the NJM2153 and the data sheet is available on the NJR website. Between the NJR data sheet and the schematic provided by BBE for the 482i, I concocted the schematic . Basically, I took the chip "guts" as documented on the NJR website and married the BBE documentation to it, primarily for component values. The end result is a schematic of one channel of the 482i with the chip "guts" spelled out. I am guessing that this circuit could be built for a few dollars per channel using off-the-shelf components. If one uses the NJR chip, there is a licensing arrangement one must enter into before NJR will sell you chips. I would presume there would be some cash outlay involved but that is unconfirmed at this time.

The BBE website alludes to their having a number of patents related to this technology. I did a search for patents and initially found nothing related. But a more exhaustive search revealed patents 5,510,752 and 5,736,897. Contrary to BBE documentation, these are the real "Sonic Maximizer" patents. I will continue looking for others. These patents are in effect until 2015 so duplication for profit is not encouraged! Still, worth a look anyway.

Other patents related to the "Sonic Maximizer" and worth looking at are:

3,714,462 3,789,143 4,097,767 4,403,199

These were invented by David Blackmer and were the technology behind "dbx" products. My suggestions about "dbx" and THAT was spot on. The BBE patents even cite THAT chips used in the prototype circuit disclosed in the patent. How's that for serendipity?!

More information will be added as I delve deeper into this subject matter. At $200 a pop for a unit, that translates into a very spiffy margin for BBE.
 
Thats pretty cool info on the BBE. :thumbsup:
I am going to get into a DIAL IN marathon this weekend with both cabs....all settings and speaker placement on the VH4S.
I know this amp will crush without the BBE .....
I just been lazy to dial it in properly.
:scared:
I got alot of good settings that Fellow Diezel users have fwd to me.
Cant wait to check them out! :rock:
 
psychodave":2h48k90n said:
I just listened. You should sell the BBE as fast as you can. I like it without... :rock:
I think it might make a good drink coaster.... :lol: :LOL:
 

Similar threads

Soundstorm
Replies
61
Views
6K
Techdeth
Techdeth
S
Replies
5
Views
541
stevemac1
S
Music&Chaos
Replies
0
Views
132
Music&Chaos
Music&Chaos
Back
Top