I recreated the studio rig of classic Alice In Chains.
- Thread starter thefyn
- Start date
NaturalBornBoy
Well-known member
Yeah IIRC, the 100B was only out in '92.
tubortski
Member
Terrible that thread was deleted.
Mr C was on point. Think about it, engineers actually make the record. He still owns the Snorkler. He set the mics, he pressed record, he was at the board. Yes, Jerden produced the record. It's both their word. Unless Cantrell is going to come on here and say different.
Mr C was on point. Think about it, engineers actually make the record. He still owns the Snorkler. He set the mics, he pressed record, he was at the board. Yes, Jerden produced the record. It's both their word. Unless Cantrell is going to come on here and say different.
NewWorldMan":flxqts1a said:Well, I don't see any info that cites the Bogner modded Marshall other than internet lore and speculation. That info I listed above (re: Bassman) is straight from the engineer himself. He stated the core rhythm tracks were a 4 knob, 80s Tube Driver into a clean Fender Bassman set on the edge of breakup (not distorted). He stated the Snorkler may have been used as a blender, but set more mild and used with the Tele.
Everyone is free to hear what they want, but neither the producer or the engineer stated a Bogner modded Marshall was used for rhythm on the album...
I'm a kinda confused, am I reading it wrong, or is Ronnie giving conflicting stories?
To quote from EXPcustom's post:
"my name is Ronnie Champagne i was the engineer with Dave Jerden Producing on Facelift...i am the owner of the Snorkler...that we used for most of the guitar and some six string bass tracks on the album Facelift...its a Marshall 50 watt jcm 800 combo 4010 that i had Bogner modify for me...4-12ax7a tubes and el34's for power"
".as a side note i also used a R.K.Butler TubeDriver pre amp into a vintage Fender Bassman for many of the 'mellower' tones "
glassjaw7":rsijplwi said:
Yep. It's probably why in all gear pages relating to the MAIN rig used was the Bogner Marshall.
The other pre's, amps, etc listed by the producer/engineers were probably for the alternative tones, cleans, wet and dry solo rigs and textures etc.
It's great that Jerry clears it up.
EXPcustom
New member
Philhouse":13ngx1ov said:NewWorldMan":13ngx1ov said:Well, I don't see any info that cites the Bogner modded Marshall other than internet lore and speculation. That info I listed above (re: Bassman) is straight from the engineer himself. He stated the core rhythm tracks were a 4 knob, 80s Tube Driver into a clean Fender Bassman set on the edge of breakup (not distorted). He stated the Snorkler may have been used as a blender, but set more mild and used with the Tele.
Everyone is free to hear what they want, but neither the producer or the engineer stated a Bogner modded Marshall was used for rhythm on the album...
I'm a kinda confused, am I reading it wrong, or is Ronnie giving conflicting stories?
To quote from EXPcustom's post:
"my name is Ronnie Champagne i was the engineer with Dave Jerden Producing on Facelift...i am the owner of the Snorkler...that we used for most of the guitar and some six string bass tracks on the album Facelift...its a Marshall 50 watt jcm 800 combo 4010 that i had Bogner modify for me...4-12ax7a tubes and el34's for power"
".as a side note i also used a R.K.Butler TubeDriver pre amp into a vintage Fender Bassman for many of the 'mellower' tones "
I think NewWorldMan believes that the Bogner modded Marshall was not used at all. Even though Jerry and Ronnie confirm that they used it on both albums, but NewWorldMan is saying that what Dave Jerden is saying is 100% correct regarding his recollection of the amps used and according to Jerden's recollection no Bogner modded Marshalls were used.
At least that's what I'm getting from his posts but maybe I'm confused.
EXPcustom
New member
Old post of Ronnies I saved from the now gone Bogner forums:
Warning Ronnie does not like paragraphs.
Hello Fellas!Normally i dont do the forum thing but i have some interesting info to share.My name is Ronnie Champagne im a Producer/Engineer/Guitarist,i was in the Hollywood studio game from 1984 to 1998.I recorded Janes Addiction's "NOTHINGS SHOCKING"and 'RITUAL DE LO HABITUAL",as well as Dave Navarro and Eric Avery's "DECONSTRUCTION" for Rick Rubin.I also recorded ALICE IN CHAINS "FACELIFT" as well as SOCIAL DISTORTION and MY SISTERS MACHINE's "DIVA" and a few hundred more around the world as well as touring europe and africa and canada and the u.s.I just wanted to clarify what msr.Bogner has on his web site about the Fish and Jerry Cantrell.But lets backtrack a little.When i was recording "nothings shocking" i was using my own amps,a black face fender bassman 50,a late 70's,early 80's marshall jcm 800 50 and a silverface twin loaded with greenbacks.plus a 60's marshall 4x12 with greenies...i was getting great tones using a modified r.k.butler tube driver to hit my amps hard...anyways back in the day ANDY BRAUER RENTALS had some great gear so i used them all the time for extra tones,well we finished nothings shocking and i was listening to how un satisfied i was with the tones(they still rock though)so i got it by the grapevine that steve and joe and eddie had these mods done by this new guy,msr B.,when it came time to start preproduction on janes "ritual" i was told there was a modded marshall at brauers that i should check out...i did...and i wouldnt give it back!!!it was a jcm 800 just like the one i owned.So i took mine over to Brauers where Bogner was now working before he got funding for his own line...i asked him if he would do to mine exactly what he had done to this rental...he said no...i said you dont get this one back...i finally pleaded with him telling him that it was in his best interest considering i knew what was in the pipeline and i think we paid him double,hehe!any ways thats when the SNORKLER was born.it was originally a combo that i bought in canada in '83,used.Actually i traded a half stack for it and some dosh as i was moving to los angeles and didnt want to lug a half stack around...well the rest is history as they say...everyone who got to use my baby wanted to buy it from me.i think Jerry offered me 5 grand at one point a couple years after facelift went platinum because he couldnt get the tone from the bog's he got...my favorite tone is using a drop d tuning telecaster thru the snorkler and two 4x12's....its the voice of god!we used that combo alot on Facelift doubled with Jerry's G & L 's...my 69 les paul custom fucking kills it and my es 135 sounds like butter with fangs!!!Contrary to popular belief i always went straight into the snorkler and then mic into neve 1073 into la-2a direct to tape(studer a-800 16 track tw0 inch.)i used the fender bassman for clean tracks and slightly raunchy brown tones then left the solos for the SNORKLER.I recorded most of Jerry's solos and Lanes vocals at Capitol Studios hollywood studio "a".I put my 4x12 greenies in a stairwell,which made everyone go crazy!!!thats my style....and recorded the natural ambience so it sounded fucking real and HUGE...dont know if they will let me do that trick ever again!!!but hey i want to sell millions of records so they can suck it up,cuz i pay their wages!!!Anyways thats pretty much the set up i have used since 1990 or so...
So as far as the Fish pre amp goes,well thats not what we used,ever...I think my snorkler is one of the 6 best sounding amps ever made and they all were modded by rheinhold...hes a fucking genius.Its priceless to me,made me and others a lot of money just trying to crush some fucking skulls via ROCK GUITAR!!!...any questions?
Warning Ronnie does not like paragraphs.
Hello Fellas!Normally i dont do the forum thing but i have some interesting info to share.My name is Ronnie Champagne im a Producer/Engineer/Guitarist,i was in the Hollywood studio game from 1984 to 1998.I recorded Janes Addiction's "NOTHINGS SHOCKING"and 'RITUAL DE LO HABITUAL",as well as Dave Navarro and Eric Avery's "DECONSTRUCTION" for Rick Rubin.I also recorded ALICE IN CHAINS "FACELIFT" as well as SOCIAL DISTORTION and MY SISTERS MACHINE's "DIVA" and a few hundred more around the world as well as touring europe and africa and canada and the u.s.I just wanted to clarify what msr.Bogner has on his web site about the Fish and Jerry Cantrell.But lets backtrack a little.When i was recording "nothings shocking" i was using my own amps,a black face fender bassman 50,a late 70's,early 80's marshall jcm 800 50 and a silverface twin loaded with greenbacks.plus a 60's marshall 4x12 with greenies...i was getting great tones using a modified r.k.butler tube driver to hit my amps hard...anyways back in the day ANDY BRAUER RENTALS had some great gear so i used them all the time for extra tones,well we finished nothings shocking and i was listening to how un satisfied i was with the tones(they still rock though)so i got it by the grapevine that steve and joe and eddie had these mods done by this new guy,msr B.,when it came time to start preproduction on janes "ritual" i was told there was a modded marshall at brauers that i should check out...i did...and i wouldnt give it back!!!it was a jcm 800 just like the one i owned.So i took mine over to Brauers where Bogner was now working before he got funding for his own line...i asked him if he would do to mine exactly what he had done to this rental...he said no...i said you dont get this one back...i finally pleaded with him telling him that it was in his best interest considering i knew what was in the pipeline and i think we paid him double,hehe!any ways thats when the SNORKLER was born.it was originally a combo that i bought in canada in '83,used.Actually i traded a half stack for it and some dosh as i was moving to los angeles and didnt want to lug a half stack around...well the rest is history as they say...everyone who got to use my baby wanted to buy it from me.i think Jerry offered me 5 grand at one point a couple years after facelift went platinum because he couldnt get the tone from the bog's he got...my favorite tone is using a drop d tuning telecaster thru the snorkler and two 4x12's....its the voice of god!we used that combo alot on Facelift doubled with Jerry's G & L 's...my 69 les paul custom fucking kills it and my es 135 sounds like butter with fangs!!!Contrary to popular belief i always went straight into the snorkler and then mic into neve 1073 into la-2a direct to tape(studer a-800 16 track tw0 inch.)i used the fender bassman for clean tracks and slightly raunchy brown tones then left the solos for the SNORKLER.I recorded most of Jerry's solos and Lanes vocals at Capitol Studios hollywood studio "a".I put my 4x12 greenies in a stairwell,which made everyone go crazy!!!thats my style....and recorded the natural ambience so it sounded fucking real and HUGE...dont know if they will let me do that trick ever again!!!but hey i want to sell millions of records so they can suck it up,cuz i pay their wages!!!Anyways thats pretty much the set up i have used since 1990 or so...
So as far as the Fish pre amp goes,well thats not what we used,ever...I think my snorkler is one of the 6 best sounding amps ever made and they all were modded by rheinhold...hes a fucking genius.Its priceless to me,made me and others a lot of money just trying to crush some fucking skulls via ROCK GUITAR!!!...any questions?
NewWorldMan
Well-known member
Ronnie, Jerry, and Jerden have ALL given conflicting stories on what was used on those first 2 albums. You see the story above with Ronnie stating it was all "Snorkler", and yet here's from an exchange with him regarding "Facelift":
Question: "Did you guys plug straight into the amp for rhythms? Were the rhythms the 1X12 or the 4X12 Marshall Greenback cab?"
Ronnie: "I recall most of the rhythm parts were done with the G&Ls into the Tube Driver into the Fenders. I believe I also doubled parts with a Tele straight into the Snorkler with a 'milder' setting..."
He later went on to say that the Tube Driver was an older 4 knob model, and that the Bassman was set for a clean tone on the edge of breakup. He also clarified that one of keys to that tone was the massive amount of compression they used on the guitars, both while tracking and while mixing (specifics mentioned above in my previous post).
I've seen interviews with Jerry about "Dirt" where he said it was the Bogner/Marshall, Bogner Fish and others, Bogner plus Mesa Dual Rectifier, etc. Jerry has cited that album was more combos than I can count.
So yeah, what I'm saying is that whomever you choose to believe, every single one of them has told conflicting stories over the years, and that includes conflicting with their own previous accounts of what was used...
Question: "Did you guys plug straight into the amp for rhythms? Were the rhythms the 1X12 or the 4X12 Marshall Greenback cab?"
Ronnie: "I recall most of the rhythm parts were done with the G&Ls into the Tube Driver into the Fenders. I believe I also doubled parts with a Tele straight into the Snorkler with a 'milder' setting..."
He later went on to say that the Tube Driver was an older 4 knob model, and that the Bassman was set for a clean tone on the edge of breakup. He also clarified that one of keys to that tone was the massive amount of compression they used on the guitars, both while tracking and while mixing (specifics mentioned above in my previous post).
I've seen interviews with Jerry about "Dirt" where he said it was the Bogner/Marshall, Bogner Fish and others, Bogner plus Mesa Dual Rectifier, etc. Jerry has cited that album was more combos than I can count.
So yeah, what I'm saying is that whomever you choose to believe, every single one of them has told conflicting stories over the years, and that includes conflicting with their own previous accounts of what was used...
cardinal
Well-known member
The only consistency seems to be that the Snorkler was used for the lead parts.
As for the rhythms, the exact gear used probably doesn't really matter at this point. An old-school, non-master-volume Bassman is pretty similar to non-master Marshalls (because early Marshalls were Bassman copies), and a decent boosted Marshall tone plus some post processing should get Facelift type tones. So tube driver into a bassman. Bogner modded Marshall. Whatever. Just plug it into a nice cab and some quality recording gear and get it done.
As for the rhythms, the exact gear used probably doesn't really matter at this point. An old-school, non-master-volume Bassman is pretty similar to non-master Marshalls (because early Marshalls were Bassman copies), and a decent boosted Marshall tone plus some post processing should get Facelift type tones. So tube driver into a bassman. Bogner modded Marshall. Whatever. Just plug it into a nice cab and some quality recording gear and get it done.
NewWorldMan
Well-known member
cardinal":ec93utkp said:
Pretty much...except for Jerden who claimed that it was a Mike Moran modded Marshall. I guess the only consistency from everyone involved over the years that has never changed in any telling of the story is that the leads were done with a modded Marshall of some kind...
To the OP, nice work on the clip, sounds great. As far as exactly what was used? Unless any of us are time travelers, we'll never know 100% for certain, because there's too many variations on it from everyone involved to know for sure. Just get a hot rodded Marshall type amp, compress the hell out of your signal, and it sounds like you're in the ballpark.
NewWorldMan
Well-known member
That was a one-on-one conversation I had with with Ronnie about it. Those are some of my favorite albums, so I've talked to as many folks as I can about it.
Ronnie is a fantastic guy, very knowledgeable, great to talk shop with about anything. I can try to dig out the rest of the conversation if anyone is interested? He even sent a PDF of the builders plan for the 1X12 cab that was used. Yes, he was that cool and forthcoming...
Ronnie is a fantastic guy, very knowledgeable, great to talk shop with about anything. I can try to dig out the rest of the conversation if anyone is interested? He even sent a PDF of the builders plan for the 1X12 cab that was used. Yes, he was that cool and forthcoming...
EXPcustom
New member
NewWorldMan":fsxkeuyw said:That was a one-on-one conversation I had with with Ronnie about it. Those are some of my favorite albums, so I've talked to as many folks as I can about it.
Ronnie is a fantastic guy, very knowledgeable, great to talk shop with about anything. I can try to dig out the rest of the conversation if anyone is interested? He even sent a PDF of the builders plan for the 1X12 cab that was used. Yes, he was that cool and forthcoming...
Plans for the KK Audio 1x12 he said he used?
I'm more interested in the Tube Driver but if you have the interview or whatever post it.
NewWorldMan
Well-known member
EXPcustom":1sm6mkhq said:Plans for the KK Audio 1x12 he said he used?
I'm more interested in the Tube Driver but if you have the interview or whatever post it.
I don't remember the brand of 1X12, could be KK Audio if that's what you heard. I just remember that it was essentially the EV TL806 spec (did a quick Google search to track down a copy
https://robrobinette.com/images/Guitar/ ... _plans.pdf
I'll dig out and post what I have. I wouldn't so much call it an interview as much as a fanboy of the albums obsessing over details most people could care less about and asking whatever questions popped into his head...
EXPcustom
New member
Ronnie said in his own words when he posted he used a KK Audio 1x12
"..oh ya i used a KK Audio 1x12 cabinet with an ev 250 12L speaker(totally killer!)for most of the tracking.."
That's kind of weird he would have the plans for the cabinet and offer to share them with you when you can just go out and buy one of these cabs used for 300 bucks?
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding things...
"..oh ya i used a KK Audio 1x12 cabinet with an ev 250 12L speaker(totally killer!)for most of the tracking.."
That's kind of weird he would have the plans for the cabinet and offer to share them with you when you can just go out and buy one of these cabs used for 300 bucks?
Maybe I'm just misunderstanding things...
NewWorldMan
Well-known member
I have more somewhere, but this is all I could dig up at the moment. I'm going to clean this up to make it easier to read and follow, as well as edit some of the grammar and put it into an "interview context" so it makes sense when you read it. This was from around 3 years ago...
NewWorldMan's "Interview" with Ronnie
(In regards to Facelift)
NewWorldMan: "We Die Young" comes on, and it gets me every time. The tones you dialed in on that album are some of my favorite. Did you plug straight into the amp for rhythms? Were the rhythms the 1X12 cab or the 4X12 Marshall Greenback cab?"
Ronnie: "I recall most of the rhythm parts were done with the G&L's into the Tube Driver into the Fenders. I believe I also doubled parts with a Tele straight into the "Snorkler" with a 'milder' setting."
NewWorldMan: "Do you recall what sort of settings you used? I'm curious how it was dialed in. I believe I recall it previously mentioned that the leads were done in a stairwell with all of the amp knobs on "10?"
Ronnie: "Because we layer tones to get it to sound like one big guitar, I just used my ears. The track tells you what it needs. With the solos, I was trying to capture the excitement of a stadium space without resorting to using effects. I started out with a "crunchy" sound and it got progressively nastier, up to the balls out solo tone. The "Snorkler" has so many subtle and not so subtle variations of color. Bogner is a genius! I like to hit a Fender, Vox, or normal Marshall amp with a lot of gain, overdriving the preamp circuit. A Linear Power Booster (NewWorldMan's Note: see EHX LPB-1 Linear Power Booster, made in the 70s) will give you the same result, where you can turn down the volume knob on the guitar to clean up the tone. This is what I do when I play live, using an A/B box. One side is going to my pedal board, and the other straight into the "Snokler", post wah. The "Snorkler" only hears the guitar into the wah, as it doesn't need any help. Trust me!"
NewWorldMan: "Do you recall what guitars and pickups were used on the album?"
Ronnie: "We used Jerry's G&Ls, a Tele, and my Kramer Baretta with a Duncan JB-1. I've always used those lipstick pickups on the Jerry Jones reissues. As I recall, we had a couple of those. There was a 6 string bass and a guitar, so that tone is in there somewhere, especially on the bass. I doubled the choruses with the 6 string bass, ala John Entwhistle and John Paul Jones."
NewWorldMan: "You mentioned earlier that the rhythm guitar tracks included a Tube Driver and Fender. Do you recall what tracks or parts the (Butler) Tube Driver into the Fender Bassman were used on? I'm curious about that. It sounds like an inventive, but great tonal combo."
Ronnie: "The (Butler) Tube Driver and the Fender Bassman were on every track. They were more like more like "bed tracks" for the Snorkler to jump out of, which isn't to say that we didn't use the Snorkler at all for rhythm tracks (NewWorldMan Note: see comment above on how "Snorkler was used for rhythms). It's more about the tones of the guitars. Pretty much all of the songs had a rhythm, doubled rhythm, and then a center track. Then for the solos...listen in mono, then in stereo. You should be able to hear how it spreads out. The trick is to NOT use the same tone twice on a song, otherwise it gets mushy and loses definition."
"I can't remember if I used my ultra sonic pickups on this record, which is what I've been using for 20 years now. They are a very flat response pickup that really let the amps do their job. I also used a Thiele design 1x12 cab with an EV-12L 250 speaker for most of the tracking. It has a very flat, very tight, and focused sound. I'm not a big fan of 4x12s in the studio, as I never need the kind of volume that they require to break up the signal. Plus, they have no ports (NewWorldMan Note: see the EV Thiele cab design for details on ports), so all of those beautiful low mids and bottom end just resonate the cabinet and are useless unless you use a boundary mic, or let's say a U47 or some other great tube mic a few feet away from the cab. The downside of that is washy phase cancellations. I've recorded everything from blues to jazz and country using the same techniques, and it translates well through all genres."
NewWorldMan: "In regards to the Butler Tube Driver, is the one you used the older 3 knob version from the late 80s and early 90s? There are tons of variations that were made.
Ronnie: "No, I have the old 4 knob version with no bias control. It's an easy mod, but I just like the way this one sounds. I've used different tubes as well, depending on the gig. I've used 12AU7s, 12AX7s, etc. They all sound different. I like the 12AX7s.
NewWorldMan: "When tracking, did you crank the (Fender) Bassman to distort, then slam the front end with the Tube Driver, or did you run the (Fender) Bassman clean and use only the overdrive from the Tube Driver?"
Ronnie: "I always try to start with a good, loud clean tone, just to the point of where speakers will start to break up. Sometimes, depending on the amp and speaker combo, it's at a very low volume. For example, I have a couple of old Tweed '50's Fenders, a Harvard and a Champ 600, that don't take too much volume to get them breaking up, which I prefer to record with. With those amps, I use this box called the "Blue Collar Overdrive" that is such a creamy blues tone. Alternately, I'll hit them with an EHX LPB-1 Linear Power Booster.
I used to use small Vox's (Cambridge, Reverbs, etc) when I was a kid and they screamed when I hit 'em real hard! Tons of sustain and punch, and I could clean up the tone by turning the volume knob on the guitar down to a minimum. To do so, you have to do a capacitor mod across the input/output on your volume pot. I use .022 caps on Strats. Seymour Duncan uses a parallel resistor as well to determine the treble low pass point, just depends on the type of pickup.. I like the top end myself, so I'll just back off the presence a bit on the overall amp and pedal settings. It's always a fine line determined by the environment."
NewWorldMan: "Any other pointers for achieving those types of guitar tones?"
Ronnie: "What a lot of people don't understand is that we used a lot of compression after the Neve preamps while tracking, and a lot more when mixing through the SSL. Hearing that tone and then trying to emulate the sound with an amp mod are so far off base it's criminal! Plus, don't discount all of the low pass and high pass filtering used to carve off the "nasties" to make the tracks fit in the mix. No amp in the world can recreate that signal path, but that's our art form...our painting, as it were." One crucial element is to get the speakers off the floor! It's called "decoupling", and it changes everything. Auralex makes a unit called a "Gramma". It's what works best for that."
"You can make your own decoupler.. Get a 3/4 inch piece of plywood and good dense foam, with points like a pyramid, which is the point of it: decoupling from the floor.. It's an immense difference. When I recorded Jerry's solos, my 4X12 (NewWorldMan Note: Marshall Greenback Cab) was on it's back on a milk crate pointed up! Minimal floor coupling. I can't remember if I had foam or not. It was a last minute thing to do the stairwell trick, and it was Brian Carlstrom that showed me the stairwell. He was a second at Capitol when we were there. I knew him from earlier days at Track Record when we both worked there. In fact, I gave him the job with Jerden. Literally! I was done at that point. Too many production jobs coming at me."
And there you have it. I believe I have more, but that's all I can find right now. If I find more, I'll edit this post to include it. Enjoy!
NewWorldMan's "Interview" with Ronnie
(In regards to Facelift)
NewWorldMan: "We Die Young" comes on, and it gets me every time. The tones you dialed in on that album are some of my favorite. Did you plug straight into the amp for rhythms? Were the rhythms the 1X12 cab or the 4X12 Marshall Greenback cab?"
Ronnie: "I recall most of the rhythm parts were done with the G&L's into the Tube Driver into the Fenders. I believe I also doubled parts with a Tele straight into the "Snorkler" with a 'milder' setting."
NewWorldMan: "Do you recall what sort of settings you used? I'm curious how it was dialed in. I believe I recall it previously mentioned that the leads were done in a stairwell with all of the amp knobs on "10?"
Ronnie: "Because we layer tones to get it to sound like one big guitar, I just used my ears. The track tells you what it needs. With the solos, I was trying to capture the excitement of a stadium space without resorting to using effects. I started out with a "crunchy" sound and it got progressively nastier, up to the balls out solo tone. The "Snorkler" has so many subtle and not so subtle variations of color. Bogner is a genius! I like to hit a Fender, Vox, or normal Marshall amp with a lot of gain, overdriving the preamp circuit. A Linear Power Booster (NewWorldMan's Note: see EHX LPB-1 Linear Power Booster, made in the 70s) will give you the same result, where you can turn down the volume knob on the guitar to clean up the tone. This is what I do when I play live, using an A/B box. One side is going to my pedal board, and the other straight into the "Snokler", post wah. The "Snorkler" only hears the guitar into the wah, as it doesn't need any help. Trust me!"
NewWorldMan: "Do you recall what guitars and pickups were used on the album?"
Ronnie: "We used Jerry's G&Ls, a Tele, and my Kramer Baretta with a Duncan JB-1. I've always used those lipstick pickups on the Jerry Jones reissues. As I recall, we had a couple of those. There was a 6 string bass and a guitar, so that tone is in there somewhere, especially on the bass. I doubled the choruses with the 6 string bass, ala John Entwhistle and John Paul Jones."
NewWorldMan: "You mentioned earlier that the rhythm guitar tracks included a Tube Driver and Fender. Do you recall what tracks or parts the (Butler) Tube Driver into the Fender Bassman were used on? I'm curious about that. It sounds like an inventive, but great tonal combo."
Ronnie: "The (Butler) Tube Driver and the Fender Bassman were on every track. They were more like more like "bed tracks" for the Snorkler to jump out of, which isn't to say that we didn't use the Snorkler at all for rhythm tracks (NewWorldMan Note: see comment above on how "Snorkler was used for rhythms). It's more about the tones of the guitars. Pretty much all of the songs had a rhythm, doubled rhythm, and then a center track. Then for the solos...listen in mono, then in stereo. You should be able to hear how it spreads out. The trick is to NOT use the same tone twice on a song, otherwise it gets mushy and loses definition."
"I can't remember if I used my ultra sonic pickups on this record, which is what I've been using for 20 years now. They are a very flat response pickup that really let the amps do their job. I also used a Thiele design 1x12 cab with an EV-12L 250 speaker for most of the tracking. It has a very flat, very tight, and focused sound. I'm not a big fan of 4x12s in the studio, as I never need the kind of volume that they require to break up the signal. Plus, they have no ports (NewWorldMan Note: see the EV Thiele cab design for details on ports), so all of those beautiful low mids and bottom end just resonate the cabinet and are useless unless you use a boundary mic, or let's say a U47 or some other great tube mic a few feet away from the cab. The downside of that is washy phase cancellations. I've recorded everything from blues to jazz and country using the same techniques, and it translates well through all genres."
NewWorldMan: "In regards to the Butler Tube Driver, is the one you used the older 3 knob version from the late 80s and early 90s? There are tons of variations that were made.
Ronnie: "No, I have the old 4 knob version with no bias control. It's an easy mod, but I just like the way this one sounds. I've used different tubes as well, depending on the gig. I've used 12AU7s, 12AX7s, etc. They all sound different. I like the 12AX7s.
NewWorldMan: "When tracking, did you crank the (Fender) Bassman to distort, then slam the front end with the Tube Driver, or did you run the (Fender) Bassman clean and use only the overdrive from the Tube Driver?"
Ronnie: "I always try to start with a good, loud clean tone, just to the point of where speakers will start to break up. Sometimes, depending on the amp and speaker combo, it's at a very low volume. For example, I have a couple of old Tweed '50's Fenders, a Harvard and a Champ 600, that don't take too much volume to get them breaking up, which I prefer to record with. With those amps, I use this box called the "Blue Collar Overdrive" that is such a creamy blues tone. Alternately, I'll hit them with an EHX LPB-1 Linear Power Booster.
I used to use small Vox's (Cambridge, Reverbs, etc) when I was a kid and they screamed when I hit 'em real hard! Tons of sustain and punch, and I could clean up the tone by turning the volume knob on the guitar down to a minimum. To do so, you have to do a capacitor mod across the input/output on your volume pot. I use .022 caps on Strats. Seymour Duncan uses a parallel resistor as well to determine the treble low pass point, just depends on the type of pickup.. I like the top end myself, so I'll just back off the presence a bit on the overall amp and pedal settings. It's always a fine line determined by the environment."
NewWorldMan: "Any other pointers for achieving those types of guitar tones?"
Ronnie: "What a lot of people don't understand is that we used a lot of compression after the Neve preamps while tracking, and a lot more when mixing through the SSL. Hearing that tone and then trying to emulate the sound with an amp mod are so far off base it's criminal! Plus, don't discount all of the low pass and high pass filtering used to carve off the "nasties" to make the tracks fit in the mix. No amp in the world can recreate that signal path, but that's our art form...our painting, as it were." One crucial element is to get the speakers off the floor! It's called "decoupling", and it changes everything. Auralex makes a unit called a "Gramma". It's what works best for that."
"You can make your own decoupler.. Get a 3/4 inch piece of plywood and good dense foam, with points like a pyramid, which is the point of it: decoupling from the floor.. It's an immense difference. When I recorded Jerry's solos, my 4X12 (NewWorldMan Note: Marshall Greenback Cab) was on it's back on a milk crate pointed up! Minimal floor coupling. I can't remember if I had foam or not. It was a last minute thing to do the stairwell trick, and it was Brian Carlstrom that showed me the stairwell. He was a second at Capitol when we were there. I knew him from earlier days at Track Record when we both worked there. In fact, I gave him the job with Jerden. Literally! I was done at that point. Too many production jobs coming at me."
And there you have it. I believe I have more, but that's all I can find right now. If I find more, I'll edit this post to include it. Enjoy!
Hung Huy Tran
New member
Enjoyed the vid. Entertaining and informative.
Hung Huy Tran":jxxtbe15 said:Enjoyed the vid. Entertaining and informative.
Thanks!! Really appreciate it.
Next I'm doing in my opinion the (joint)
greatest ever recorded clean tone:
So great. I'm getting closer...about to record my first track.
Depending on mood my fav clean tone changes. The other is "Wicked Game" but there is no chance I can get a hold of the effects unit used. It's super expensive/old/rare. Luckily I already own most of the INXS guitar/bass chain. There is a surprise on this one too.