I recreated the studio rig of classic Alice In Chains.

  • Thread starter Thread starter thefyn
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That stinks. I started that thread and most certainly did not request that any of it be deleted.
 
crwnedblasphemy":b5xql7q4 said:
Cabs make an enormous difference. Was wondering if you asked Dave Jerdan what he used?
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Warren Huart spoke to him and spilled the beans :-) got some inside info.

Check out "produce like a pro" on YouTube. Awesome channel and he gives out secrets all the time.
 
EXPcustom":m460wksq said:
Sucks that a lot of posts got deleted with the recent member exodus but we had Ronnie Champagne posting here discussing in detail what was used during facelift and Dirt in detail.

To the OP, your clip sounds great and you did a great job but some corrections to what Jerry actually used that was mentioned...

He used a late 60's Marshall 4x12 with greenbacks mic'd in a stairwell.

The only over drive pedal used was a BK butler into a Bassman 50.

The JCM 800 was modded by Bogner it was a 50 watter as well. Straight in, no need for a pedal let alone a TS9.

Like I said not trying to criticize, I think OP did a great job! Just want to make some corrections so misinformation isn't perpetuated.

In case you guys don't believe me here was a copy of his post I saved:

"...i know this is a really old thread,i just came across it...my name is Ronnie Champagne i was the engineer with Dave Jerden Producing on Facelift...i am the owner of the Snorkler...that we used for most of the guitar and some six string bass tracks on the album Facelift...its a Marshall 50 watt jcm 800 combo 4010 that i had Bogner modify for me...4-12ax7a tubes and el34's for power...i got in Canada in '83 as a trade for a 50 watt half stack that i didnt want to carry to the states when i moved to L.A. in '84...i was using Andy Brauer rentals in n.Hollywood for most of the gear we used on Janes Addiction's Nothings Shocking and Andy turned me onto a Bogner Modified jcm 800 that Rheinhold had modded...apparently he did a few...for Eddie and Steve and Joe...well i had the same amp and took it over to Rheinhold and asked him to do exactly the same thing to mine...he refused... saying that he was trying to launch his own product...i told him i didnt care how much it costs and that my clients would send him a ton of business,to which he capitulated,grudgingly....good move i'd say!this is the nastiest amp ive ever played thru...you are correct that we used a 4x12 with greenbacks in a stairwell all knobs on ten for solos...but we also used it in various settings for a multitude of overdubs...using a shure sm57 into a neve 1073 into a la-2a compressor/limiter to the tape machine...i also used it on Janes Ritual,Social Distortion,Deconstruction with Dave Navarro and Eric Avery from Janes....and many other records worldwide...plus i toured Europe with it as my main amp...we also used Bogner Ecstacy(?) and Fishes with Navarro....none had the totally full on brazen tone though...it is THE platinum amp,priceless to me(Jerry offered me big cash for it,but i aint no dummy!)in fact the last time i hung out with Alice(new guys) in Boston he still was complaining and wanting....as a side note i also used a R.K.Butler TubeDriver pre amp into a vintage Fender Bassman for many of the 'mellower' tones and also my pink Kramer Baretta 1 with a Ultrasonic 3 pickup(single and humbucker modes) plus a lot of Telecaster drop D tuned...the Snorkler responds unbelievably to single coil pick ups...we also used a Coral elecric sitar (amazing!) thru it...plus the six string bass for chorus's on many tracks...ala the Who....the Snorkler logo is from an old fire extinguisher i found in Hollywood...plus its a reference to blow snorters...my assistant attempted a clone of it but for some reason the o.g. still kicks its ass...ive a/b 'd it to most of the Bogner amps and this puppy is a boutique slayer...i also had some minor alterations done to it by the Professor in Seattle,mostly grounding and switches etc and he built me a new enclosure,i got the vox fabric from Jackson Brown....oh ya i used a KK Audio 1x12 cabinet with an ev 250 12L speaker(totally killer!)for most of the tracking....if y'all have any questions feel free to e-mail me at (removed)...i love chatting gear!but i live to play it!!!!Ronnie C... :)"
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Yep the second album had a few amps/preamps because there were a lot of clean/in between/thick solo sounds etc. but if you could choose one amp to recreate the studio tone, it would be the Bogner/Marshall. I could not possibly have gone deep enough to cover every tone. Haha.

Plus I'm convinced the amp used on Them Bones ryth was dominated by the Bogner/Marshall. If you switch between my clip and the song you can hear it.

I'm having a Marshall cab with vintage greenbacks delivered next week. I can try the cab in a stairwell technique and retry it. I'll just use a bathroom instead. Great info. Thanks.
 
I had the power amp wrong, I do remember the VHT after reading that again. The Mesa was in his live rig.

To add to what NewWorldMan posted from Jerden,

Dave Jerden":2ashpbbl said:
The main rhythm guitars for Facelift were recorded with a Randall 100 Watt and a Marshall 100 Super lead (left and right guitars ) . For the lead guitars on both albums I used my 1988 Marshall Super Lead 100 watt
modified by Mike Moran . For Laynes Vocals on both records I used a Neuman M49 . We triple tracked all vocals. All Efx were from Stomp boxes except in mixing .
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Me personnally I take what Dabe Jerden says with a grain of salt over with what Ronnie C. says. Most of the artist and producers when you ask them about gear they used 20+ years ago don't remember or their answers change as years pass, just because it's not that important to them like it is us fanboys.
 
It's 2 different stories regarding "Facelift":

Per Ronnie, the rhythm parts on "Facelift" were done with a BK Butler Tube Driver into a Fender Bassman. At least, the rhythm foundation. The Bogner/Marshall "Snorkler" may have been used as filler for extra layers when needed on rhythms, set on a milder setting and using a Tele. The 1X12 was used, and one of the keys was a lot of compression and HP/LP filtering. Compression was used after the Neve's while tracking, and more was used when mixing on the SSL. He never specified anything about the HP/LP filtering, but I'll assume it's similar to what Jerden mentioned. Leads were the "Snorkler" with the Greenback cab.

Per Jerden, it's as stated above...a 100W Randall and a Marshall Super Lead (1959) on rhythms, and a Mike Moran modded Super Lead for leads.

So, regardless of who you believe, there's virtually no tale of the Bogner/Marshall used on "Facelift" for rhythm guitars. It was either used for rhythm filler on occasion and lead in one account, or not used at all per the other.

"Dirt" has even more conflicting stories, so who knows!
 
maybe jerry knows. lol

this is kind of a confusing video because you are talking about facelift tones and then play them bones wrong. it sounds ok. but not nailed.
 
Jerden says he kept notes for all the setups but I'd approach anyone's recollections with caution at this point being it was 25 years ago. There is also a book by a third person detailing alot of the stuff done in the studio which adds to the confusion.
 
GregM":2zif4ex1 said:
Jerden says he kept notes for all the setups but I'd approach anyone's recollections with caution at this point being it was 25 years ago. There is also a book by a third person detailing alot of the stuff done in the studio which adds to the confusion.
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Yep. Practically all info mentions the bogner Marshall. And let's face it, the engineers really know what's up. They mic'd everything up. Producers often are less involved than guys who place the mic's and dial the knobs.

I hear a Marshall constant through the songs. The dominant voice is a Marshall. Lots of preamps etc may have been mic'd up and recorded but in the mix a lot gets discarded. We will never really know what amps made the cut during the mixing.

I'm glad it mentions the 1x12 because that was the main "reveal" of my video.

The bassman may have been recorded but I know from experience a boosted bassman wont be as tight as the album at those tunings. But Marshalls are based on old Fenders so perhaos that was modded too?
 
Well, I don't see any info that cites the Bogner modded Marshall other than internet lore and speculation. That info I listed above (re: Bassman) is straight from the engineer himself. He stated the core rhythm tracks were a 4 knob, 80s Tube Driver into a clean Fender Bassman set on the edge of breakup (not distorted). He stated the Snorkler may have been used as a blender, but set more mild and used with the Tele.

Everyone is free to hear what they want, but neither the producer or the engineer stated a Bogner modded Marshall was used for rhythm on the album... :)
 
cardinal":1j8ila6c said:
That stinks. I started that thread and most certainly did not request that any of it be deleted.
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bob savage did it when he reset the interwebzz.....
 
wIsEbLooD":yuusbn7d said:
maybe jerry knows. lol

this is kind of a confusing video because you are talking about facelift tones and then play them bones wrong. it sounds ok. but not nailed.
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True, there are def parts where the song was played wrong.
 
NewWorldMan":2nyf8vx2 said:
It's 2 different stories regarding "Facelift":

Per Ronnie, the rhythm parts on "Facelift" were done with a BK Butler Tube Driver into a Fender Bassman. At least, the rhythm foundation. The Bogner/Marshall "Snorkler" may have been used as filler for extra layers when needed on rhythms, set on a milder setting and using a Tele. The 1X12 was used, and one of the keys was a lot of compression and HP/LP filtering. Compression was used after the Neve's while tracking, and more was used when mixing on the SSL. He never specified anything about the HP/LP filtering, but I'll assume it's similar to what Jerden mentioned. Leads were the "Snorkler" with the Greenback cab.

Per Jerden, it's as stated above...a 100W Randall and a Marshall Super Lead (1959) on rhythms, and a Mike Moran modded Super Lead for leads.

So, regardless of who you believe, there's virtually no tale of the Bogner/Marshall used on "Facelift" for rhythm guitars. It was either used for rhythm filler on occasion and lead in one account, or not used at all per the other.

"Dirt" has even more conflicting stories, so who knows!
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There is a recent interview where Jerry Cantrell confirms Ronnie's story that he offered him 5 grand for that Bogner modded Marshall. Now for the life of me I can't find it on Google. Does anyone else remember reading or hearing that Cantrell interview.

I'm going with Cantrell and Ronnie C. on this. I know someone who is friends with Jerden and he told me take what that guy says over twitter or FB with a grain of salt. Jerden is a gear guy but his memory isn't that great, so unless he posted studio notes... well take what I say with grain of salt, I'm just a fanboy. :lol: :LOL:
 
EXPcustom":q23xljkc said:
There is a recent interview where Jerry Cantrell confirms Ronnie's story that he offered him 5 grand for that Bogner modded Marshall. Now for the life of me I can't find it on Google. Does anyone else remember reading or hearing that Cantrell interview.
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I vaguely remember something, I think it might be in a Youtube video. I seem to remember him briefly mentioning the stairway thing for recording the leads also. I'm picturing the video with Jerry and Sean on the couch around 2009-10 but that might not be right. I'll check later tonight if I have time.
 
More from Ronnie:

Hello Fellas!Normally i dont do the forum thing but i have some interesting info to share.My name is Ronnie Champagne im a Producer/Engineer/Guitarist,i was in the Hollywood studio game from 1984 to 1998.I recorded Janes Addiction's "NOTHINGS SHOCKING"and 'RITUAL DE LO HABITUAL",as well as Dave Navarro and Eric Avery's "DECONSTRUCTION" for Rick Rubin.I also recorded ALICE IN CHAINS "FACELIFT" as well as SOCIAL DISTORTION and MY SISTERS MACHINE's "DIVA" and a few hundred more around the world as well as touring europe and africa and canada and the u.s.I just wanted to clarify what msr.Bogner has on his web site about the Fish and Jerry Cantrell.But lets backtrack a little.When i was recording "nothings shocking" i was using my own amps,a black face fender bassman 50,a late 70's,early 80's marshall jcm 800 50 and a silverface twin loaded with greenbacks.plus a 60's marshall 4x12 with greenies...i was getting great tones using a modified r.k.butler tube driver to hit my amps hard...anyways back in the day ANDY BRAUER RENTALS had some great gear so i used them all the time for extra tones,well we finished nothings shocking and i was listening to how un satisfied i was with the tones(they still rock though)so i got it by the grapevine that steve and joe and eddie had these mods done by this new guy,msr B.,when it came time to start preproduction on janes "ritual" i was told there was a modded marshall at brauers that i should check out...i did...and i wouldnt give it back!!!it was a jcm 800 just like the one i owned.So i took mine over to Brauers where Bogner was now working before he got funding for his own line...i asked him if he would do to mine exactly what he had done to this rental...he said no...i said you dont get this one back...i finally pleaded with him telling him that it was in his best interest considering i knew what was in the pipeline and i think we paid him double,hehe!any ways thats when the SNORKLER was born.it was originally a combo that i bought in canada in '83,used.Actually i traded a half stack for it and some dosh as i was moving to los angeles and didnt want to lug a half stack around...well the rest is history as they say...everyone who got to use my baby wanted to buy it from me.i think Jerry offered me 5 grand at one point a couple years after facelift went platinum because he couldnt get the tone from the bog's he got...my favorite tone is using a drop d tuning telecaster thru the snorkler and two 4x12's....its the voice of god!we used that combo alot on Facelift doubled with Jerry's G & L 's...my 69 les paul custom fucking kills it and my es 135 sounds like butter with fangs!!!Contrary to popular belief i always went straight into the snorkler and then mic into neve 1073 into la-2a direct to tape(studer a-800 16 track tw0 inch.)i used the fender bassman for clean tracks and slightly raunchy brown tones then left the solos for the SNORKLER.I recorded most of Jerry's solos and Lanes vocals at Capitol Studios hollywood studio "a".I put my 4x12 greenies in a stairwell,which made everyone go crazy!!!thats my style....and recorded the natural ambience so it sounded fucking real and HUGE...dont know if they will let me do that trick ever again!!!but hey i want to sell millions of records so they can suck it up,cuz i pay their wages!!!Anyways thats pretty much the set up i have used since 1990 or so...
So as far as the Fish pre amp goes,well thats not what we used,ever...I think my snorkler is one of the 6 best sounding amps ever made and they all were modded by rheinhold...hes a fucking genius.Its priceless to me,made me and others a lot of money just trying to crush some fucking skulls via ROCK GUITAR!!!...any questions?
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Jerry's take on it:

" I used a Reinhold Bogner–modified Marshall exclusively on Facelift and Dirt,” he says, referring to the Alice in Chains albums. “I love that sound: clear low end with a lot of growl that doesn’t come at the cost of definition.”

Just found this in a GW interview from 2009. I have the mag here
 
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