Insulation in Bogner cabs

[Marshall Freak]

In building subwoofer boxes, adding the insulation to all of the surfaces adds up to 20% more space, at least as far as calculating the speaker enclosure size by the free air resonance of the speaker.

Info above from a book I read awhile back on building your own speakers... was interesting, but then again, guitar cabs are so specialized imho not sure if it would really apply. Just adding to the discussion.

Pete

I had a thread years ago asking about how today's 4x12 came to be and the best answer I got was that Marshall built a box to hold 4 12" speakers I have a book as well and it goes into detail about how in stereo speakers you build the box around your drivers and port size and depth. The driver has specs that you use to compute the box dimension. I have read some boutique builder's sites how they have an exact formula for their enclosures but never got past that.

All I know is that Bogner is the only guy to go this route and have no clue why

Actually, Pete Townsend wanted an 8x12, and they told him it would be WAY Too heavy. I think they built him a few and it was too much, so they basically cut it in half and made two 4x12's. I don't remember how the slant part came into play, if it was before or after the 8x12 experiment or not. Pure luck for the most part.

 

[stratotone]

In building subwoofer boxes, adding the insulation to all of the surfaces adds up to 20% more space, at least as far as calculating the speaker enclosure size by the free air resonance of the speaker.

Info above from a book I read awhile back on building your own speakers... was interesting, but then again, guitar cabs are so specialized imho not sure if it would really apply. Just adding to the discussion.

Pete

I had a thread years ago asking about how today's 4x12 came to be and the best answer I got was that Marshall built a box to hold 4 12" speakers I have a book as well and it goes into detail about how in stereo speakers you build the box around your drivers and port size and depth. The driver has specs that you use to compute the box dimension. I have read some boutique builder's sites how they have an exact formula for their enclosures but never got past that.

All I know is that Bogner is the only guy to go this route and have no clue why

Actually, Pete Townsend wanted an 8x12, and they told him it would be WAY Too heavy. I think they built him a few and it was too much, so they basically cut it in half and made two 4x12's. I don't remember how the slant part came into play, if it was before or after the 8x12 experiment or not. Pure luck for the most part.

I seem to recall reading that his roadies threatened to quit it so was heavy. Just imagine if they had cut it where there were four speakers on top of each other... I bet we'd be using that setup instead of what we do now.

 

[nwright]

Actually, Pete Townsend wanted an 8x12, and they told him it would be WAY Too heavy. I think they built him a few and it was too much, so they basically cut it in half and made two 4x12's. I don't remember how the slant part came into play, if it was before or after the 8x12 experiment or not. Pure luck for the most part.

I remember reading about the history of Marshall, and what I read was the same thing, but the slanted top of the 8x12 (and subsequent 4x12 "top") was made to allow the sound to carry up and out to fill the arenas they were playing at the time. Back then, PA's could not handle wattage like todays, so the amps really did push a LOT of sound, and having the slanted top of an 8x12 or a full stack allowed the sound to travel to the upper rafters.

 

[FourT6and2]

Actually, Pete Townsend wanted an 8x12, and they told him it would be WAY Too heavy. I think they built him a few and it was too much, so they basically cut it in half and made two 4x12's. I don't remember how the slant part came into play, if it was before or after the 8x12 experiment or not. Pure luck for the most part.

I remember reading about the history of Marshall, and what I read was the same thing, but the slanted top of the 8x12 (and subsequent 4x12 "top") was made to allow the sound to carry up and out to fill the arenas they were playing at the time. Back then, PA's could not handle wattage like todays, so the amps really did push a LOT of sound, and having the slanted top of an 8x12 or a full stack allowed the sound to travel to the upper rafters.

Whoops, old thread. But I've read that Jim Marshall created the slanted part of the cab for purely cosmetic reasons. He said something about the slant adding a touch of beauty and pleasant lines to the otherwise slab-sided look of the thing.

 

[tcrash]

Actually, Pete Townsend wanted an 8x12, and they told him it would be WAY Too heavy. I think they built him a few and it was too much, so they basically cut it in half and made two 4x12's. I don't remember how the slant part came into play, if it was before or after the 8x12 experiment or not. Pure luck for the most part.

I remember reading about the history of Marshall, and what I read was the same thing, but the slanted top of the 8x12 (and subsequent 4x12 "top") was made to allow the sound to carry up and out to fill the arenas they were playing at the time. Back then, PA's could not handle wattage like todays, so the amps really did push a LOT of sound, and having the slanted top of an 8x12 or a full stack allowed the sound to travel to the upper rafters.

Whoops, old thread. But I've read that Jim Marshall created the slanted part of the cab for purely cosmetic reasons. He said something about the slant adding a touch of beauty and pleasant lines to the otherwise slab-sided look of the thing.

I read the same thing, said he heads looked better sitting on them.

 

[FourT6and2]

Actually, Pete Townsend wanted an 8x12, and they told him it would be WAY Too heavy. I think they built him a few and it was too much, so they basically cut it in half and made two 4x12's. I don't remember how the slant part came into play, if it was before or after the 8x12 experiment or not. Pure luck for the most part.

I remember reading about the history of Marshall, and what I read was the same thing, but the slanted top of the 8x12 (and subsequent 4x12 "top") was made to allow the sound to carry up and out to fill the arenas they were playing at the time. Back then, PA's could not handle wattage like todays, so the amps really did push a LOT of sound, and having the slanted top of an 8x12 or a full stack allowed the sound to travel to the upper rafters.

Whoops, old thread. But I've read that Jim Marshall created the slanted part of the cab for purely cosmetic reasons. He said something about the slant adding a touch of beauty and pleasant lines to the otherwise slab-sided look of the thing.

I read the same thing, said he heads looked better sitting on them.

I think it's kind of hilarious that, fast forward years and years, the "holy grail" of tones stem from things the designer made based purely on aesthetic reasons. 4x12 cabs have become the norm because the 8x12 was too big to move. So, they cut the fucker in half and called it a day. Slanted cabs: different frequency response? Phasing? Sounds better? Engineering? Hell no! Just looks better! lol

 

[Pickup]

Jim Marshall also said there was no ryhme or reason for the size of the box. They just did it.

 

[LP Freak]

I did notice a big difference between my Bogner 4x12 with the baffle and my Marshall 4x12 with no baffle. They both have the same Scumback speakers and the Bogner is definately darker which I don't prefer. It doesn't have the zing that the Marshall has. I've considered removing the baffle but never got around to it.

 

[FourT6and2]

I did notice a big difference between my Bogner 4x12 with the baffle and my Marshall 4x12 with no baffle. They both have the same Scumback speakers and the Bogner is definately darker which I don't prefer. It doesn't have the zing that the Marshall has. I've considered removing the baffle but never got around to it.

By baffle, you mean the insulation right? Not the speaker baffle... two different things.

I like the darker sound. So I loves me my Bogner cab. It's loaded with Greenbacks, too. Sounds fantastic.

 

[FourT6and2]

Jim Marshall also said there was no ryhme or reason for the size of the box. They just did it.

Yeah, that's the best part. And now those measurements are copied as if they're some sort of magical figure.

 

[LP Freak]

I did notice a big difference between my Bogner 4x12 with the baffle and my Marshall 4x12 with no baffle. They both have the same Scumback speakers and the Bogner is definately darker which I don't prefer. It doesn't have the zing that the Marshall has. I've considered removing the baffle but never got around to it.

By baffle, you mean the insulation right? Not the speaker baffle... two different things.

I like the darker sound. So I loves me my Bogner cab. It's loaded with Greenbacks, too. Sounds fantastic.

You are correct Sir baffle (insulation).

 

[TheMagicEight]

I did notice a big difference between my Bogner 4x12 with the baffle and my Marshall 4x12 with no baffle. They both have the same Scumback speakers and the Bogner is definately darker which I don't prefer. It doesn't have the zing that the Marshall has. I've considered removing the baffle but never got around to it.

By baffle, you mean the insulation right? Not the speaker baffle... two different things.

I like the darker sound. So I loves me my Bogner cab. It's loaded with Greenbacks, too. Sounds fantastic.

You are correct Sir baffle (insulation).

Isn't the baffle the piece of wood speakers get mounted on?

I removed the insulation from one of my Bogner cab and have been going back and forth between the two backs (with and without insulation). I really like the tightness and tone the insulation offers - it definitely makes a difference that works for Bogner voicing - but I think I prefer without insulation. I have yet to crank it up too loud, but for now, it looks like no insulation is my preference.

 

[LP Freak]

I did notice a big difference between my Bogner 4x12 with the baffle and my Marshall 4x12 with no baffle. They both have the same Scumback speakers and the Bogner is definately darker which I don't prefer. It doesn't have the zing that the Marshall has. I've considered removing the baffle but never got around to it.

By baffle, you mean the insulation right? Not the speaker baffle... two different things.

I like the darker sound. So I loves me my Bogner cab. It's loaded with Greenbacks, too. Sounds fantastic.

You are correct Sir baffle (insulation).

Isn't the baffle the piece of wood speakers get mounted on?

I removed the insulation from one of my Bogner cab and have been going back and forth between the two backs (with and without insulation). I really like the tightness and tone the insulation offers - it definitely makes a difference that works for Bogner voicing - but I think I prefer without insulation. I have yet to crank it up too loud, but for now, it looks like no insulation is my preference.

You are correct about the baffle too.

 

[TheMagicEight]

I removed the insulation from one of my Bogner cab and have been going back and forth between the two backs (with and without insulation). I really like the tightness and tone the insulation offers - it definitely makes a difference that works for Bogner voicing - but I think I prefer without insulation. I have yet to crank it up too loud, but for now, it looks like no insulation is my preference.

I've been playing cranked these past few days and definitely like the insulation out. It sounds good in, especially with Bogner voicing, but I'm going for "Bogner head into late 60s Marshall stack" sound and this is the 2nd best way to do it (apart from getting the very expensive real thing)!

 

[LP Freak]

I removed the insulation from one of my Bogner cab and have been going back and forth between the two backs (with and without insulation). I really like the tightness and tone the insulation offers - it definitely makes a difference that works for Bogner voicing - but I think I prefer without insulation. I have yet to crank it up too loud, but for now, it looks like no insulation is my preference.

I've been playing cranked these past few days and definitely like the insulation out. It sounds good in, especially with Bogner voicing, but I'm going for "Bogner head into late 60s Marshall stack" sound and this is the 2nd best way to do it (apart from getting the very expensive real thing)!

I was thinking of taking it out too. I'd like a little more attack out of the cabinet and I'm assuming that would help?

 

[TheMagicEight]

I removed the insulation from one of my Bogner cab and have been going back and forth between the two backs (with and without insulation). I really like the tightness and tone the insulation offers - it definitely makes a difference that works for Bogner voicing - but I think I prefer without insulation. I have yet to crank it up too loud, but for now, it looks like no insulation is my preference.

I've been playing cranked these past few days and definitely like the insulation out. It sounds good in, especially with Bogner voicing, but I'm going for "Bogner head into late 60s Marshall stack" sound and this is the 2nd best way to do it (apart from getting the very expensive real thing)!

I was thinking of taking it out too. I'd like a little more attack out of the cabinet and I'm assuming that would help?

It seems to have better attack, but not tighter. More alive, where the insulation can choke off the tone a little. All IMO.

 

[LP Freak]

I removed the insulation from one of my Bogner cab and have been going back and forth between the two backs (with and without insulation). I really like the tightness and tone the insulation offers - it definitely makes a difference that works for Bogner voicing - but I think I prefer without insulation. I have yet to crank it up too loud, but for now, it looks like no insulation is my preference.

I've been playing cranked these past few days and definitely like the insulation out. It sounds good in, especially with Bogner voicing, but I'm going for "Bogner head into late 60s Marshall stack" sound and this is the 2nd best way to do it (apart from getting the very expensive real thing)!

I was thinking of taking it out too. I'd like a little more attack out of the cabinet and I'm assuming that would help?

It seems to have better attack, but not tighter. More alive, where the insulation can choke off the tone a little. All IMO.

Did it get any looser?

 

[TheMagicEight]

I removed the insulation from one of my Bogner cab and have been going back and forth between the two backs (with and without insulation). I really like the tightness and tone the insulation offers - it definitely makes a difference that works for Bogner voicing - but I think I prefer without insulation. I have yet to crank it up too loud, but for now, it looks like no insulation is my preference.

I've been playing cranked these past few days and definitely like the insulation out. It sounds good in, especially with Bogner voicing, but I'm going for "Bogner head into late 60s Marshall stack" sound and this is the 2nd best way to do it (apart from getting the very expensive real thing)!

I was thinking of taking it out too. I'd like a little more attack out of the cabinet and I'm assuming that would help?

It seems to have better attack, but not tighter. More alive, where the insulation can choke off the tone a little. All IMO.

Did it get any looser?

I think choked was the right word for the cab with insulation, which could give the impression of being tighter. It doesn't feel looser to me, but to someone else it might be. All depends on your right hand, I think.

 

[FourT6and2]

Old thread, sorry. but still relevant for those interested.

I have two Bogner 4x12s. One with insulation and one with it removed. Without the insulation, the cab is more "alive." It resonants more. It sounds deeper, as in slightly farther away (in a good way). With the insulation, the whole cab is dampened a bit. The attack is faster, yes. But the sound is also more in your face and present. Maybe a good way of putting it is that it's like a room mic vs a mic right up against the cone.

 

[eternal_idol]

double necro!

in all seriousness, i do actually refer to this thread every once in awhile, got an odd side reflection with certain speakers in my cabinet.

make a point to getting around to getting some carpet under padding to cover the offending side (i assume its the recessed handle ), but still haven't gotten around to it LMAO, that and the cab doesn't need any help with low end.