Jeff Hilligan
Well-known member
I only record music and don't play out. I finally decided to stop with all the plug ins and trying to buy stuff that makes my tube amps sound good. Anyone got input as to how I get stated with her?
S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑
Hack
When you get it figured out, make some clips. I don't envy the process of figuring it out, but I bet you will enjoy it
I
itsgoodnow
Well-known member
Honestly how good the axe fx sounds is really more about the cab than anything. A lot of great IRs out there. Even the built in ones are good. What kind of tone are you going for?
DanTravis62
Moderator
Moderator
This. The IRs are everything with modelers.
Jeff Hilligan
Well-known member
I just can't get a clean mid gain tone...early kings x kinda sound. Everything I have tried is just to mid centered and too much gain. When I get gain level where it sounds right it's either farty on low end or thin as shit. I've been using Micheal neilsons it's and I have box of rock and Celestion it's, scumback you name it
C
chumbucket
Well-known member
Have you updated to the latest firmware? The Dyna Cabs are great. You can leave the amp settings alone and move the mic placement on the speaker for tonal changes. You may find that IRs are limiting and you waste a lot of time scrolling for a good match while the Dyna Cabs get you to the finish line quicker.
CoreyW
Well-known member
The Cooper Carter Axe FX class thing is well worth the money.
Cooper Carters youtube channel, has a lot of the info that is in his class, but it isnt laid out like the class is, and there is a lot from the class that he doesnt touch on in his normal youtube videos.
The G66 videos are a wealth of knowledge.
Leon Todd has a bunch of videos on the Axe FX as well.
How are you using the Axe, you mention in your OP about making your tube amps sound good, are you using it as an fx unit in the loop of an amp, or are you just using it by itself. If you are running through your amp and speakers, I would turn off amp and cab modeling in the unit and not use an IR.
Cooper Carters youtube channel, has a lot of the info that is in his class, but it isnt laid out like the class is, and there is a lot from the class that he doesnt touch on in his normal youtube videos.
The G66 videos are a wealth of knowledge.
Leon Todd has a bunch of videos on the Axe FX as well.
How are you using the Axe, you mention in your OP about making your tube amps sound good, are you using it as an fx unit in the loop of an amp, or are you just using it by itself. If you are running through your amp and speakers, I would turn off amp and cab modeling in the unit and not use an IR.
ChurchHill
Well-known member
First, make sure you've got all the latest installed. I think they just released a new firmware today 33.00, not beta, that supports NAM.
I started by going through the presets, got bored with that pretty quickly. So, I just created a blank preset with just an IR. I agree, the Dyna Cabs are much easier to get better results more quickly. Then, I just started selecting amps until I found something that inspired me to not switch to the next. Kept doing that until I had a few favorites. Then, I just started tweaking.
I'd suggest trying not to get sucked into a rabbit hole with advanced parameters just yet. There are too many things that you can adjust, but the default settings are really good and the presets are good, too. If a particular model doesn't sound good to you, don't waste time trying to make it sound good. That's an easy way to waste a lot of time tweaking instead of playing.
It's a great tool, but that's all it is, just a tool. Spoiler alert, it didn't make me want to sell my other amps. The effects are really good, too.
Oh, when changing amp models, don't forget to look at the IR. The default IR is from a Pignose 4". It has its uses, I'm sure, but is not exactly what I would expect.
I started by going through the presets, got bored with that pretty quickly. So, I just created a blank preset with just an IR. I agree, the Dyna Cabs are much easier to get better results more quickly. Then, I just started selecting amps until I found something that inspired me to not switch to the next. Kept doing that until I had a few favorites. Then, I just started tweaking.
I'd suggest trying not to get sucked into a rabbit hole with advanced parameters just yet. There are too many things that you can adjust, but the default settings are really good and the presets are good, too. If a particular model doesn't sound good to you, don't waste time trying to make it sound good. That's an easy way to waste a lot of time tweaking instead of playing.
It's a great tool, but that's all it is, just a tool. Spoiler alert, it didn't make me want to sell my other amps. The effects are really good, too.
Oh, when changing amp models, don't forget to look at the IR. The default IR is from a Pignose 4". It has its uses, I'm sure, but is not exactly what I would expect.
CoreyW
Well-known member
So, something I have trouble understanding.. and I am not disagreeing with the people who say it... but the whole finding the right IR approach..
Its relatively easy to see how much of a difference they can make... but in the physical world, how many of us have hundreds or thousands of different cabs and mics to choose from to pick our sound... most of us have 1, maybe 2 cabs... and we just have to make it work, and that has worked for what the last 70 years...
C
chumbucket
Well-known member
I went through a metric shit ton of IRs and for my tastes, when I found the Ownhammer Classic Rock Essentials Rock Box with Greenbacks, the search was over. No weird frequency scoops or bumps. They sound great with every amp I typically choose which is usually of the high gain Marshall variety.
https://ownhammer.com/products/classic-rock-essentials
ChurchHill
Well-known member
That's one of the reasons I like Dyna Cabs better. There aren't nearly as many to choose from and you can adjust them in the same way, virtually, that you would with a mic on a cab. I just find something that's close to what I'm used to, the 4x12 1960TV is a good place to start, quickly adjust to taste and go from there. That's what I do with a real cab, pick the one I think will work best and just go with it.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
-As far as IR’s go, if you’re completely wet behind the ears and have no idea where to even start, I’d recommend trying the Legacy 104 Legacy 103 cab IR: Marshall 4x12 TV Mix. It’s a really old IR, but there is some magic they happened to capture in that particular one. It still sounds great today.
-Completely clear out one of the banks of presets so you can start building your own. Maybe run through them once just to kind of wrap your head around the kinds of tricks the Axe-Fx has up its sleeve, but after that, delete em. I have never found prebuilt presets that sound better than what happens when you dial in your own sound from scratch.
-When dialing in a patch, treat it like you would build a real rig. First, start with the basics, just an Amp and Cab block, maybe a boost pedal in front, maybe an EQ block after the cab for fine tuning. After you get your core tone sounding good, then move onto effects if you feel like you need them.
-Sometimes less is more. Not every patch needs to be a kitchen sink patch that maxes out the CPU. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
-BUILD A TEMPLATE PATCH, then save it somewhere so you can copy paste it to new presets so you don’t have to trudge through the boring tedious groundwork every time you want to dial in a new sound.
-If at all possible, download the editor and learn to work through it at first. It is the most feature-complete PC editor of any piece of gear I have ever used. Feel free to learn to dial using the front panel later. You can do everything from the front panel if you want, but the PC editor always makes everything faster and easier.
-Finally, coming back to IR‘s, part of the reason some people feel a little friction when learning any modeler is because it kind of forces them to think about guitar rigs not just from guitar to speaker cab, but from guitar to speaker cab to mic to console to stereo system. Modeling sort of forces you to think not just like a guitar player, but also like a producer too. There’s a lot of new information to absorb here. Personally, I found the whole process fascinating and kind of loved getting into it. You are of course free to ignore all that, disable the cab block, and run straight into a real power amp and cab, but there are advantages to learning and mastering the rest of the signal chain as well. Namely, it gives you more complete control of what you sound like. You will no longer be reliant on a sound guy or producer to determine the 60-70% of your total tone that inevitably occurs between the speaker cab and microphone interaction and everything afterwards. Imagine being able to just hand any sound guy one or two XLR cables and that’s it, while you have complete control of your rig front to back in a way you never had before. It’s pretty cool.
Edit: correction, the IR I was talking about is Legacy 103 Basketweave TV Mix, not Legacy IR 104.
-Completely clear out one of the banks of presets so you can start building your own. Maybe run through them once just to kind of wrap your head around the kinds of tricks the Axe-Fx has up its sleeve, but after that, delete em. I have never found prebuilt presets that sound better than what happens when you dial in your own sound from scratch.
-When dialing in a patch, treat it like you would build a real rig. First, start with the basics, just an Amp and Cab block, maybe a boost pedal in front, maybe an EQ block after the cab for fine tuning. After you get your core tone sounding good, then move onto effects if you feel like you need them.
-Sometimes less is more. Not every patch needs to be a kitchen sink patch that maxes out the CPU. Just because you can doesn’t mean you should.
-BUILD A TEMPLATE PATCH, then save it somewhere so you can copy paste it to new presets so you don’t have to trudge through the boring tedious groundwork every time you want to dial in a new sound.
-If at all possible, download the editor and learn to work through it at first. It is the most feature-complete PC editor of any piece of gear I have ever used. Feel free to learn to dial using the front panel later. You can do everything from the front panel if you want, but the PC editor always makes everything faster and easier.
-Finally, coming back to IR‘s, part of the reason some people feel a little friction when learning any modeler is because it kind of forces them to think about guitar rigs not just from guitar to speaker cab, but from guitar to speaker cab to mic to console to stereo system. Modeling sort of forces you to think not just like a guitar player, but also like a producer too. There’s a lot of new information to absorb here. Personally, I found the whole process fascinating and kind of loved getting into it. You are of course free to ignore all that, disable the cab block, and run straight into a real power amp and cab, but there are advantages to learning and mastering the rest of the signal chain as well. Namely, it gives you more complete control of what you sound like. You will no longer be reliant on a sound guy or producer to determine the 60-70% of your total tone that inevitably occurs between the speaker cab and microphone interaction and everything afterwards. Imagine being able to just hand any sound guy one or two XLR cables and that’s it, while you have complete control of your rig front to back in a way you never had before. It’s pretty cool.
Edit: correction, the IR I was talking about is Legacy 103 Basketweave TV Mix, not Legacy IR 104.
Last edited:
I
itsgoodnow
Well-known member
Totally good points. The issue is an IR isn’t really a complete cab. It’s a snapshot of someone’s rig, mic, and cab. That’s why 90 different IR of the same cab and speakers sound so different. So finding the right version really affects the tone hunt.
C
chumbucket
Well-known member
^ This is great advice. Spoken like a Fractal pro.
CoreyW
Well-known member
A while back I was on the fractal forums, and I came across a series of posts about a specific IR that just had some kinda voodoo to it, it was named, but I never book marked it to try it out later. I have tried to go back and search, but that may be the one you're talking about.
I have been tweaking the Leon Todd preset for a while and just mainly stick with it... its so messed up, since I got the Axe like 18 months ago, I don't just sit and tweak I can find a preset pretty quick that I latch on to and just fiddle with it occasionally, but am pretty happy with everything I can get out of the unit.
You did hit on probably the most important point about using a modeler. You are listening to an end result tone, its what you would hear off a recording, its not a direct off the cabinet in the room sound most of us are use to, and it takes a while to adjust to it.
CoreyW
Well-known member
Im not trying to argue any points, I just find it rather humorous how a lot of us can be pretty happy/content with a single cab that we can use different heads with, and we just make it work, but once we have access to IRs, either load boxes or modelers, its like we are chasing that perfect IR when in the real world thats not a viable option for most of us, and the closest most of us will get is a small handful of different cabs to cycle through.
CoreyW
Well-known member
Are you sure its Legacy 104? For me thats showing a Mesa cab.
103 is 4x12 basketweave tv mix.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
Ah shit yep my mistake. Basketweave TV Mix is the legacy IR I was talking about that everybody seems to like, I'll edit what I said above. Thanks!
tallcoolone
Well-known member
True but moving a mic around a speaker does the same thing. I agree with starting with a finite number of options and then choosing from those. Option paralysis is very much in play with IRs. The comparison to having one or two cabs is a good one—pick a few you think you like then go from there
Similar threads
- BadCat
- Rig-Talk