How Do You Break This Musical Barrier?

[MistaGuitah]

Who else can identify with this present dilemma?

I've always had 2 critical deficiencies as a guitar player. First, by the age of 20, I had developed enough proficiency to play stuff like Iron Maiden and Metallica songs and solos. However, I spent years playing with crippling technical habits.

Even though I got the the point where I could play Satriani, Malmsteen, Eric Johnson, etc., I knew my technique would fail me and I'd have to slop a note or two to pull of those kinds of solos at Guitar Center. Therefore, I spent another decade trying to iron out all those technical habits.

Finally, it was only about 6 or 7 months ago that I reached a respectable level of skill in reasonably fast alternate, economy, sweep picking and legato articulation and fluidity (general playing technique). Naturally, at this point, I decided it was time to stop practicing and start making music. However, I started by jamming backing tracks (which I hadn't done at all in 5 years) but everything was so uninspiring.

Then it hit me like a ton of bricks that I'm a lousy guitarist. I was actually a better guitarist when I had all those bad habits because at least I could play with inspiration and feeling. Now, all I can hear are limitations on my musical expression.

Hence, I've arrived at the other critical deficiency I never addressed which is music theory. I actually know a lot of theory and even learned how to read music as a teenager, but never learned how to use it or connect anything. I know the intervals, the major & minor scale formulas (wwhwwwh, etc.), major & minor chord formulas (1,3,5 or 1,b3,5), that you can invert chords by moving the same notes to different strings. I know the Circle of 4ths, and that BEADGCF can follow backwards from C for number of sharps, and stuff like that. I also know all the 3-note per string scale shapes and CAGED shapes to improve with them fluidly. Lastly, part of this deficiency has been only memorizing fretboard notes on low & high E strings and relying on the skip-string pattern to identify same notes.

I recently memorized all the E, A, and G notes on the fretboard with fluidity, and still working on it. Despite this, the reason why I suck as a player is because I am unable to do 3 crucial things:

1. Practical use of theory to make simple songs and melodies.
2. Ability to move from note to note on the fretboard purposely towards or away from the tonic to create more dramatic or mild musical expression.
3. Be able to come up with songs in something other than 4/4 time signature.

I'm not saying I'm good enough to play any Petrucci solo note-for-note and stuff like that. I can play some of his easiest solos and speedy runs, and can play a few Malmsteen, Satriani, etc., songs note-for-note. I can play Cliffs of Dover intro and solo cleanly note-for-note, but struggle to play Dessert Rose solos at 80% speed. I can alternate pick cleanly, with evenly controlled dynamics, up and down major & minor scales and pentatonic scales at 120 bpm consistently without error, but most solos don't go up and down scales so I'm able to play a lot of more advanced stuff.

So this is honestly where I'm at and I don't know how to get to where I can express myself musically without basing my solos on speed licks, exercises, songs I've learned, or (GOD forbid) cliche licks . I'm unable to write metal or rock riffs because every time I come up with something cool, it get lost trying to find that right note to add or trying to get the chord voicing I want to hear. My songs end up sounding generic or cliche because I struggle to find the right ingredients, so my only option is to exclude them. Not only that, when I can manage to put together a few cool riffs, I cannot figure out how to piece them together into a whole song.

Even improvising over backing tracks is no fun anymore, and sounds uninspired because all I can do is find scales that work over the chord changes and iterate over song many times until I can develop a cohesive melody. I know I can land on 3rd or 4th or something other than the tonic, but it's just a grasp in the dark. Then I hear some YouTube player using a pentatonic scale but somehow shifts it over a half step or something and it sounds freaking cool, but I'm just scratching my head at how they can know to do that.

Oh yeah, my only understanding of noodling unaccompanied is just playing around on 3 note-per-string or pentatonic scales. I have no idea how those guys sit there and noodle to where they can hit those sweet notes or create different textures without backing chords. When I noodle, it sounds mechanical, predictable, and 2 dimensional.

It feels like I'm doomed to playing cover songs and being a lousy songwriter. I know this was wordy but I really could use some help understanding in a stripped-down, efficient, systematic method so I can at least put some decent songs together. Even if I can never reach a level of nuance, I'd be happy enough just to be able to jam confidently. How do you do this stuff and achieve musicality?

 

[guitarded_1]

A lot to unpack there, but I do get it. Try an experiment where you set aside just about everything you think you know about guitar playing. Connect with music from your intuition and less from boxes. Push yourself out of your comfort zone with a different guitar and listen to different music. If you don’t have one yet, buy a good tele and really connect with it. It’s a simple guitar that can open a lot of creative doors. Think in terms of songs and less in terms of guitar parts. Sounds stupid, but open up and let the music come to you. Read “The Music Lesson” by Victor Wooten. More feel, less science. Good luck!

 

[VonBonfire]

A couple suggestions/observations:

How many songs have you written to completion, regardless of your satisfaction with them?

Songwriting is a skill that exists completely outside of technical guitar chops and instrumental command. Force yourself to write songs in place of your guitar practice session. For every two or three "guitar practice hours", turn one of those into a songwriting hour. The songs resulting likely aren't going to be any good at first....or, you might write five, or ten, and be satisfied with one song. That's the start and even many greats discard or sit on a lot of material. For now, focus on supporting your vocal/lyrics with your instrument, instead of finessing everything with the guitar all at once. Assume someone else in the band will provide the majority of accompaniment and any leads that way it's less of a concern. Just like guitar, these skills take time and effort to develop.

IME the best song ideas come at extremely inopportune times. You MUST start to habitually put aside what you are doing, and at least write down that lyric line or document the melody. You can do it on your phone, or a self email, or carry a small notebook with you at all times. Some of my best material (IMO) came as I was about to go to bed....I wanted to go to bed but the song idea hit me and I stayed up another two or three hours capitalizing on it, writing the song....because it was there at that moment. If I had gone to bed, it wouldn't have materialized. It's inconvenient.

Many ideas will seem good at the time, but will not materialize in a way that pleases you. That's just a part of the process. Write it down. A verse that doesn't work for a given song might be ideal when rewritten later or lines can be borrowed for another song. By writing it down you have it for future reference. Other ideas will not please you at first, but the song will come. Other times you will have an idea and the song will pour out almost as fast as you can get it down, sometimes, faster than you can track it. Sometimes you just have to force the whole thing, line by line, until you have something complete. You have to be willing to drop other stuff to make good, or you lose out. The best songs usually just happen quicky, but that is a rare occurrence that you can't rely on to happen. Inspiration can be something you cultivate so it becomes more frequent.

Choice solos....you mentioned pentatonics. If you aren't playing the changes, you are noodling. You likely ARE playing the changes to some degree without realizing it but you (likely) aren't analyzing what notes you're using over a given chord, thus missing out on some of those choice notes that make the best musical statements. I've spent countless hours playing over 12/8 slow blues backing tracks and live, MANY thousands of hours, with I IV V changes. I'm still not 100% satisfied. That's part of the thrill of blues, to chase the blue notes. Those who pay their dues will ultimately sound better than those who throw in the towel because of a lack of satisfaction. You have to have the drive to get there. It's mostly hard work....

Hopefully that was of some help.

 

[cobrahead1030]

Never stop learning solos that inspire you.

Keep writing and composing, even if you’re unhappy with the result. You’ll get better, in small steps, but the improvement will come.

Becoming a better guitarist is an endless cycle of getting worse first, if you really want to tackle your weaknesses as a player.

 

[PDC]

To OP: I absolutely SO relate to this post. And good on you for being willing to raise your hand and own it. I did the G.I.T. thing and then did the 4-nights a week thing before doing the 'I'm Moving Back to L.A.' thing. At my peak, I had respectable chops. But I always doubted my sense of melody, individuality and 'salt' - for lack of a better term. Everyone I heard live sounded so much 'saltier' and more 'authentic' in their playing than I did. I still have all my gear, and my chops vacillate between 'I still got this' and 'why the f*ck do I still own all this gear?'

But in reading your original post - think of the skills and knowledge you HAVE - before focusing on the list of the skills you think you lack.

One of my favorite guitarists that I discovered online is Mike Himmel. He sounds so loose and relaxed while absolutely ripping. I identified that he was sliding in and out of adjacent pentatonic boxes making his licks sound really slippery and unpredictable. I picked a few easy things I could do to cop a little bit of that feel, and tried working them into my vocabulary. It is still a work in progress.

Another absolute monster on this forum is AL Estrada. I listened to a few of his countless staggering videos and tried to cop just a bit of that easy, relaxed 'just behind the beat' thing that he does that makes him sound so damned in control.

Focus on what you know you have down. Pick one thing outside your comfort zone and play with it with the same excitement and curiosity you had when you got your first electric guitar and practice amp. Just wiggle your fingers and see what it sounds like and feels like.

Cobrahead nailed it in his post: "Becoming a better guitarist is an endless cycle of getting worse first..." The key is not letting that get you down to the point where it robs you of your joy from this pursuit in the first place.

 

[GuitarVacation]

Edit: Forgive this giant post. I just hope there’s something in it helpful, even if just a little.

I have similar mental bouts, I think some of that is personality type related. A person that continues to push for growth and improvement is very likely to have times of self assessment where “I suck” is the grade we give ourselves haha. Refusing to accept it and finding the ways to improve what needs to be improved is also responsible continuing to advance, albeit much slower and incrementally the longer/better you play.

First, I’d say after you get that wave of disenchantment with where you currently are, experience it, but don’t prolong beating yourself up about it. From what you’re describing about your playing, you have progressed way more than the vast majority of guitar players with technique and knowledge. That’s something to be proud of.

It may feel like an empty accomplishment if you can’t use it to make the music you want to make. The nature of guitar and how most of us learn it, how tactile it is, and how we can learn geometric patterns. That can be useful, and plenty of dudes who were on magazine covers play like that.

That same nature of the guitar can also put us in artificial boxes that limit what we play, maybe even subconsciously. It’s kind of letting the guitar and what’s familiar and ‘works’ play you, rather than the music you’re making coming from the creative artistic part of your mind.

The ‘what to practice’ element is going to be individualized to you, as you have already put the main tools in the toolbox. But they are tools, and not hard rules or limits. A master carpenter uses a hammer, but the hammer does not determine what he builds.

Scales, theory etc are tools. Even learning to play over jazz tunes, playing diatonic arpeggios, scales, and chord tones gets the job done, but even if I execute them with a high level of technique, that crap sounds like Mickey Mouse Nursery rhyme playing to me, and it doesn’t say anything. Some people like that, are happy with it, and tradition may even encourage it in some cases. But, that ain’t how I want to play/sound.

Couple quick things that have helped me push a little further before:

Paradigm shift: Sounds silly, but last year I quit playing Strats for months because I was falling into doing Strat stuff with whammy and even tones so much so that it was distracting me, or putting up an artificial limit that was keeping me from focusing on the harmonic and rhythmic advances I was pursuing. Switch to 335 style guitars, and the Strat was no longer “playing me” and having less built in attachments to the different guitar style really opened up the headspace to focus on what I needed to.

Seems silly, but just an example that happened to be beneficial for me at that particular time. Same can be done with music. Make a song inspired by something foreign to you. Take that foreign inspiration and fit it into the style genre you want to make. Might not result in a keeper song, but it will be a great exercise to break away from norms.

I have a midi controller/keyboard, can play all kinds of software instruments with it in Logic Pro. I ain’t no keys player, haha, but I can guarantee you whatever I struggle to come up with and play on keys is going to be out the limits of what I may have tied to guitar.

Longer term: Work on making what you hear in your head. If it ain’t happening between the ears, the songs aren’t there no matter what you know. Can you use scales, theory, ideas from songs you have learned to piece something together that is a pretty damn cool tune? Hell yeah. Probably how most stuff gets written, but I would encourage you to start making song ideas, riffs, or just parts in your head. Then execute them on guitar to match what you’ve come up with internally. The hard eye opening part of this, is often you’ll have a cool idea, and when you plot it out on guitar, it’s the simplest BS, far from what you’ve woodshedded and practiced to do for years LOL. There is definitely something to learn and further develop from that.

You’ve learned some difficult stuff to play. You still hear players or solos that jaw drop ya? I know I do. Put on a player like that, and don’t learn it note for note. Imitate it as best you can with what you bring to the table. It may be a poor imitation (in my case often is haha), but it can really get you in the cadence and phrasing that differs from your usual, and perhaps with totally different building blocks behind the songs. I’ll back up and pause parts repeatedly, to get closer. I may even figure it out note for note by ear (we used to do that eh? Haha). But it’s almost better to formulate your way of executing something similar, which should be somewhat different than what you usually play.

Plus, you can always go to whatever resource needed to learn it note for note if/when doing that is most beneficial.

Last, on the time signature stuff: I’m always looking to advance my time/rhythm, and different time sigs can be great to add to practice. As for coming up with your own stuff, I think different time sigs are only useful to the extent that they are felt and internalized, meaning if you do write a song riff in a certain time sig, it’s because you hear/feel it like that and any other rhythm doesn’t match what’s in your head. Otherwise, if you write stuff specifically for a certain time sig, it’s much more a technical thing akin to an exercise. That being said, some technical concepts can lead to cool song ideas, I personally just think of them differently, like a result from a formula opposed a blessing from the muse.

Last on time sigs, some of the coolest and badass music comes from being fluid and living inside 4/4 opposite to playing dead on metronome time. This is definitely something that has to be done appropriately, kind of like swing in jazz. You can definitely hear it used in rock and blues too, point is, has to be that perfect feel, otherwise it just sounds like sloppy bad time. Just something to keep in mind, rhythm doesn’t necessarily have to be a musical school exercise to be advanced and impactful.

Sorry for the length, your post resonates with me because I have had similar struggles, and probably will until I’m in the dirt. It is rewarding to say “I suck” this year while at the same time realizing you no longer “suck” the way you did a year or two ago haha. At least some progress is going on right?

And nothing I mentioned is necessarily the right way, or a guarantee to help another individual situation. Matter of fact, OP, you are far enough along to know a good deal about what works for you for improvement/advancement. If stuff I’ve suggested is kind of WTF that wouldn’t help me, haha, maybe the general direction of thought purposed by my suggestions, when matched to what you respond best to might have a shot at being helpful.

End I promise: I’m not speaking from a mountain top where I have reached a place to ‘enlighten anyone’ haha. More so, I still think I suck, but would like to think I’m sucking less as time goes on, and slow incremental progress blesses me.

 

[skoora]

Spitballing without knowing what you're stylistically trying to write..
Put away the pick and just play with your fingers. It might open all kinds of rythmic ideas in chord work and soloing.
Learn a style that’s not in your immediate wheelhouse, maybe slide, Travis picking etc. A lot of old school country and Rockabilly is very melody focused, even the rhythm work, with a lot of interconnecting lines from one passage to another.
Lose at least half the notes you think you want to play and force yourself to make a melody start happening with the fewest notes/chord tones as possible. Embrace the notes not played and the power of the human brain to fill in its own gaps.
Many classic songs where I was so sure a riff had more notes in it than it really did, because my brain put them there once the whole band was doing there thing.
If you play bass for your music try experimenting with the bass actually providing the movement and the guitar moving less or even pedals (as in pedal tones, not stomp boxes).
It seems with technically proficient players and music, what can be missing is that nothing is missing.

 

[ChurchHill]

Oh, I completely relate to what you're saying. I'm not sure I've ever gotten truly over that, but here are a couple of things I've done that have helped.

Are you in a band? If not, start one. Even if you suck, get out there and play. Interacting with an audience will help you find out in real time what works and what doesn't. Go to as many jam sessions and open mic nights as you can, same reason, and it helps figure out what works with different musicians in different circumstances and different styles.

Record yourself, especially when playing with others, but even just practicing. Listen back with an open mind. For me, it's difficult to really hear what I'm playing when I'm playing it. That's one reason I always ask someone else to play through an amp when I'm checking it out, so I can concentrate on hearing it. I think it's the same thing when I'm listening to what I'm playing when I'm playing it. My attention is divided and I'm not getting a complete picture because of that.

Don't ever lose sight of why you picked up a guitar in the first place. It's fun, it's challenging, it feels good to express yourself. Don't overthink it, which is that hardest part for me. Lose yourself in the moment. The only person that is going to notice all your mistakes is you, not even the other guitarists in the audience, and even if they did, so what? We're all human and we all make mistakes. Most if not all of us guitarists are perfectionists and are our own worst critics. Once I realized that I could forgive myself for not being perfect all the time, no matter how bad I wanted to be, things got a lot easier for me.

Even on my worst days at a gig, at least I was still out gigging, doing something that I dreamed about when I was a kid and something that many people only dream of doing. It's good to have goals and it's good to work hard to achieve them, just as it's OK to look back and appreciate how far you've come even if you haven't gotten all the way there. And as cliche as it sounds, it's a long journey, might as well enjoy the ride along the way.

 

[DanTravis62]

You're going to run into the same problem once you master theory that you did when you mastered technical proficiency.

The problem is what you listen to and what inspires you to create. It's not something you can woodshed.

 

[skoora]

Ultimately your trying to get more in tough with feeling something, not thinking about it. I went to a Music school and there Mantra was, we’re going to fill your head with all this theory and technique and the goal once you leave is to forget it when you’re playing.

 

[shadow]

consider yourself lucky. I just wanna stay awake

 

[MistaGuitah]

Man, I really appreciate what all of you have said. I read every word thoughtfully and it really makes a lot of sense. In the short time since I opened this thread, I've hungrily been following all your suggestions because I was at a point of utter frustration.

The artists you guys mentioned are very helpful and quite enjoyable to listen to, especially Victor Wooten in theory stuff. I looked him up on YouTube and came across some very helpful videos on theory. Two great things I learned from Wooten already (simplifying it here) is not to forget there are multiple ways of looking at any theoretical principle, and many successful musicians learn just a few things, only one way but take that and run with it. I remember Steve Vai saying to forget your weaknesses and focus on your strengths.

Honestly, I didn't even realize this until you guys started mentioning it, but the past several months, I have hardly listened to any music for enjoyment. I've mainly just been listening to music related to something specific I've been working on. Also, I just realized that I don't know any new bands or guitarists in the past 5 years. I left off at Meshugga, Scar Symmetry, Killswitch Engaged, etc. You're absolutely right that I need to get back to enjoying a variety of music.

The suggestion of using a different type of guitar, like a telecaster, really hit home for me because I now realize that the most feel and inspiration I've created has been on a Les Paul, and dometimes with an Ibanez RG. I know this was a correct thing for you to point out because I've been exclusively a 22 fret Suhr HSS or HH strat for the past 4 or 5 years. This was an excellent suggestion, and I've been longing to play a Les Paul and an Ibanez, so one of my priorities in the next several weeks is to acquire one (or both, if lucky).

Another thing tou helped me realize is that the requirement for making good music is fun, peace, and enjoyment. I know all these things you say should seem obvious, but they're actually easy to forget when you're hyper-focused on learning or fixing things.

Your suggestion about writing a song through completion is a big one for me because the only things I've been able to write are 1.5 to 2 min jams or mini songs for gear demos. Now that I think about songwriting from a holistic perspective, I should be able to put a few bar chords together and map out a chord progression with at least 1 key change. I mean, I only know a little about relative keys and stuff but I know I can pull it off.

Not only that, I never look at songs in terms of intros, bridges, chorus, interludeses, etc., but now that I have zoomed out a bit, I can see that my usual method relies too much on trying to conjure the right variations in rhythm and melody, and then find a way to connect and sequence them. I can see now that it makes a lot more sense to think in terms of sections or modules. I suspect this has a lot to do with getting lost trying to find the right notes.

Correct me if I'm misunderstanding this, but it sounds you're suggesting that I just put a cohesive song together with just basic bar chords and simple melodic lines, and then, once the song is laid out in whole, just jam on it and make adjustments, refinements, embellishments, etc. little by little with each rehearsal.

All this stuff is simple, but it's so easy to get off track or lose sight of essential things. The funniest thing is that I don't even know why ever I started taking myself so seriously. LOL!!! I have a professional career, a sport I'm really good at, and fine woodworking. I never had any plans to become a pro guitarist or to play gigs. Ha ha. Honestly, I probably only take guitar this seriously because it's a personality flaw where I have to be the best at whatever I do. Mainly, I absolutely love and enjoy the music of skillful guitar playing, and to be able to do that to a respectable degree is so important.

One of you also pointed out (I'm paraphrasing and synthesizing here) that it's inevitable to get stuck in the same problems repeatedly when you're focused on the wrong things. That's so common- sense and makes me kick myself in the butt for not realizing it.

Also, your comments about thinking about notes in chord changes really struck me because I've always known that, but never actually took any time to chunk it out and pay attention to each chord. Just like you said, I do that but in a rather unintentional way. What I have always done with backing tracks is to just find the tonic note so I can know where the 3-note-per-string scale (Ionian) is, and where I have to shift the modal patterns to accommodate key changes. Once I recognize a couple of the home notes, I try to move towards or away from it in an effort to create mood and texture.

This, of course, is what novices do when they first start improvising. Instead, I just kept that method and never paid any specific attention to what chords I played over. Now, you got me to realize I should be capable of figuring out enough about the chords (on a very basic level) to much more directly identify key notes. Again man, I'm kicking myself in the butt for not ever doing this even though I've heard it time and time again.

I can see how doing this, at least analyzing simple chord progressions, will eventually lead to making the connections and learning how to use theory to create music. In fact, I would probably be a much better player had I tried to do that from the start.

I wish I could respond to every comment because you guys have been so kind and helpful, but let me just convey my gratitude. I still want to know how to use a few theoretical concepts, but I think you guys have gotten me on the right path. This might be a misunderstanding, but it seems like intervals are the key to practical use of theory in songwriting and soloing, so I'll keep that one item to work on.

One thing I really want to improve is unaccompanied noodling. I want to be able to have some texture and tonal variation instead of just playing around on the usuall scales/modal patterns and pentatonic boxes. It would be a great improvement to at least start sounding more musical and be able to hit some tasty notes here and there.

Actually, I'd even be happy still playing the usual scale sequences if I could at least know how to sound more interesting. It all sounds so stale now, and I have no method to move around and land on notes in a way that doesn't sound like a thousand variations of the same notes. Just being able to do this one thing would be real progress for me.