Mark Skid
Well-known member
...alittle.
Looking for more information from Rig-talk's most knowledgeable
- Thread starter Smashedguitaris⸸
- Start date
panhead
Well-known member
Not a comment / my experience. AC30 bogner Metro too much cut, piercing midrange for me maybe youre good with it. Who cares
Smashedguitaris⸸
Hack
i would like to try an AC30 sometime. Just gotta see.
Mark Skid
Well-known member
Ritchie Blackmore uses AC30 guts inside his Marshall heads. He talked Marshall into building one head, but that's all they would do. The others are custom modified. If you don't want to spend a ton on a vintage model, get a hand-wired AC30HH. You disconnect the bright cap on the TB side for a more pedal-friendly sound.
Have you considered an EL84 power amp and 20 watts max?
TheToneDig
Active member
Mark Five:25 - 25/10-watt Tube Head
The Best of Mesa's Preamp Technology
Sporting two fully independent channels with six style modes, the Mesa/Boogie Mark Five: 25 tube amp head gives you legendary Mark Series preamp tone combined with Mesa's proprietary Dyna-Watt 2 x EL84 output section. This Mark Series amp gives you maximum portability and responsiveness. Dial in everything from sweet cleans to roaring leads with extra midrange crunch and aggression when you push the EL84 power tubes hard. Factor in the built-in Cabclone speaker-emulated direct output, and you have an amazing gigging and recording amp with the Mesa/Boogie Mark Five: 25 tube amplifier.Mesa/Boogie Mark Five: 25 Tube Amplifier Head at a Glance:
- Channel one takes you from clean to crunch
- Channel two brings you legendary Mesa lead tone
- Built-in Cabclone - achieve awesome tone without a speaker cab
The Mark Five: 25's first channel is a rhythm player's sonic playground with clean, fat, and crunch modes serving up an amazingly wide range of tone. Use the Multi-Watt power switch to flip between 10-watt mode for more breakup at lower volumes or 25-watt mode for more headroom and a different playing response. The powerful mid-boost control is all you need to push your tone to the front of any mix.
Channel two brings you legendary Mesa lead tone
Three switchable styles give the Mark Five: 25 everything you need for epic lead tones. Choose from Mark IIC+, Mark IV, and Xtreme modes for three distinct flavors of sonic aggression with switchable 10-watt/25-watt operation for adjustable response and power amp breakup. From smooth and liquid to roaring and edgy, the Mark Five: 25's lead channel gives you more sonic flexibility than most 2-channel amps provide in total.
Built-in Cabclone - achieve awesome tone without a speaker cab
The Mark Five: 25 packs an indispensable tool for gigging guitarists and an outstanding studio tool, too: a built-in Cabclone internal amp load and speaker simulator. It provides an incredibly realistic speaker-emulated direct output to plug right into the sound system or recording chain. You can still use it in conjunction with your favorite speaker cab, but gigging guitarists at Sweetwater also know what it's like lugging a speaker cab along with the rest of your guitar rig. Ditch the speaker cab and just roll up to the gig with only your Mark Five: 25 and your guitar! You'll be cutting down on stage volume, too, which will help give your band a tighter live sound.
Mesa/Boogie Mark Five: 25 Tube Amplifier Head Features:
- 2-channel, 10-/25-watt tube amplifier head
- Gives you the same legendary preamp tone as Mesa's Mark V, Mark IV, and Mark IIC+ preamplifiers
- 2 channels with 6 total style modes give you an amazingly wide range of tone to explore
- Built-in Cabclone speaker simulator and internal load box give you awesome direct tone
- Ultra-rugged design with all-aluminum chassis
- All-tube spring reverb can be applied to each channel independently
- 2-button footswitch (channel 1, channel 2, and EQ) and slipcover included
itsgoodnow
Well-known member
Yeah but this ones true
glpg80
Well-known member
I have a 6505MH that can check all of those boxes, am I in the cool kids club?
Smashedguitaris⸸
Hack
I feel like Ivan Drago in Rocky IV. You are not a man, you are a machine
Well, you are… but… unfortunately all of your favorite producers that used the 120 watt 5150? They sold them for a 30 watt fire truck siren. Apparently the 5150 sounds the same as a fire truck, that has been converted to a boogie mark 2C+.
DanTravis62
Well-known member
Man, the Charlie Brown metaphor douche is in fine form, and the Youtube e-book writer who thinks "tight" and "loose" can be dialed in with post-eq is literally just copy-pasting advertising letter block.
This was one successful thread, you made them both go full retard.
This was one successful thread, you made them both go full retard.
TheGreatGreen
Well-known member
Stop doing this, you're embarrassing yourself.
The Mesa Mark 25 sounds good, sure, but it doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the Mark V 90 watt AT ANY VOLUME. I don't care what Mesa's marketing department promises you. I've played it, and the Mark V, and all the previous Mark series iterations. The Mark 25 doesn't sound as big. There's not as much punch. It doesn't have the girth. It doesn't have the same complexity of distortion. Volume has nothing to do with it. The differences remain clear even when both amps are set way below their max output. Stop quoting your absurdly ignorant quip about "a lower wattage amp is only -6db quieter and still loud as a siren" garbage, too. That doesn't matter. It's irrelevant and it basically proves you have no idea what you're talking about. Nobody is maxing the volumes of their 100w high gain amps, so their "max loudness" doesn't matter. That's not how it works with modern high gain amps. At all. If you had ever played one or had even the slightest idea about how to handle them competently, you would know that.
Nobody is maxing the volumes of their modern 100w high gain amps, so your "-6db difference (sirens!)" example is irrelevant.
Nobody is maxing the volumes of their modern 100w high gain amps, so your "-6db difference (sirens!)" example is irrelevant.
Modern 100w amps sound bigger and bolder than their mini-watt siblings at any volume. This is not up for debate. It is just an objective reality about tube technology up to this point in time.
CAN lower wattage amps work well? Sure. Do they sound good? Some of them certainly do. Do they sound the same as their 100-watt counterparts. Absolutely not. Not a single lower wattage version of a higher wattage amp I have ever played in my life has sounded the same as its 100 watt version. Not one. And I've played almost all of them.
Also, you know what? Mesa also claimed that their Triaxis preamp contained "all the same" sounds as all their previous Mark amps, too. And guess what. It doesn't. The Traixis has modes that are obviously similar sounding to previous Mark preamps, and the modes sound pretty great as long as you have an external EQ to pair with it, but they aren't the same. You are free to blindly believe the company that is trying to sell you something if you want, but you'd be foolish to believe every bit of marketing hype even your most beloved company spews. Mesa is one of my favorite amp companies but even I admit I'd be a fool to just believe everything their marketing department releases. Speaking of, Mesa claims the Mark V 90 watt's modes also sound "exactly like" the similarly named Mark amps from yesteryear. Well guess what. They don't. All those modes sound like their own thing. Mark V IICI+ mode? Sounds good but doesn't sound like a IIC+. The Mark V "Mark IV" mode also sounds good but doesn't sound like a true Mark IV. Guess how their Mark V 25 amp sounds. As you might have guessed, it sounds good but nothing close to the real 90 watt Mark V.
You are like the definition of the Dunning-Kruger effect, dude. You learn a handful of things about electric guitar and now you think you're the master of guitar knowledge that is WAY outside the scope of what you actually know, because you have no idea how much else there is for you to learn. But the real problem is that you are potentially actively impeding the learning process of younger players. Please stop. You have so much to learn, which is fine in and of itself. Everybody starts somewhere and we're all here to help anybody who asks for it. But you wrote a book so now you think you have something to prove and some reputation to uphold, and you think you'll look bad if you admit fault now. But you already look bad, and the longer you behave like this, the more of a joke you're going to become. My advice would be to stop this and hit the woodshed, and keep learning for now.
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glpg80
Well-known member
Do you understand the engineers behind the designs don’t write these up, marketing and advertisement teams do?
Mesa is owned by Gibson, who is owned by KKR now. Their only goal is to make money out of Mesa. That’s it.
They will build whatever people will buy, and will write whatever feature they need is the next best thing to compete against a very dark and competitive niche market of tube amps.
The vast majority of guys here are high gain big amp dudes, myself included. This isn’t TGP.
The whole point of big iron is the big sound you get just as they start to open up. They sound better even higher than that but there’s absolutely nothing that compares a 20W opened up to a 100W anything opened up. The sound is larger and the 100W amp isn’t having to work as hard. The lows are more punchy and you get to hear more of the power tubes contribution to your tone.
The only thing 20W amps have going for them is their weight. You’ll never have the opportunity to tube roll power tube differences.
All of that said I do own a 20W amp and I bring it to lessons or jams with friends along with an 8” speaker mini cab. It’s better than many of the combo practice amps out and it’s a great stage amp for the really small venues. That’s it. It does not replace big iron and never will no matter what some marketing team wants to write before they clock out for the weekend just like everyone else does after work. Some people buy and tune amps with their eyes and what they read, others use their ears. Do the latter and you won’t need to chase whatever you’re told you need to chase.
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Techdeth
RESIDENT ROCK PROFESSOR
Lunch box heads were a way to sell more merchandise easier to me . Less expensive, look like a big amp, and cheaper than axe fix to sway moey to the companies . I mean I’d love to buy a cheaper smaller product than what I have it it was better . They just missing something . I don’t even like 50 watts because they feel different. So
lol I might buy this dudes orange JP2C+ so I can make it look like a browns logo lol
TheToneDig
Active member
The 100W amp graveyard is full of 100W amps that turned out to be junk. This isn't a one-way street.
BTW, it is also from the manual. It says it is gig-ready.
https://mesa-boogie.imgix.net/media/User Manuals/070517-MarkFive25.pdf
Quote for quote word the same.
- 4.5 db difference between that amp and the 90W version.
It is no wonder profiler makers and modelers are laughing all the way to make bank. As long as you still have people saying engineers can't get the tone of their 100W amps into lesser wattage than 50W, the model makers will just keep plowing full-on and doing what SOME amp makers say can't be done. This is what Friedman also did with physical amps. Realized he could do what people wanted.
The gimmick is not less wattage. The gimmick is selling you the full whack deal as your only option. It was a monopoly. Like the Soviet Union. You can have any car you want as long as it's brown and a Lada. That is what Friedman caught onto and just did what others said couldn't be done. His range is practically made up of modded Marshalls because of it.
Marshall got wise and made the Studio series because the sub 40W DSL series wasn't cutting it. Guess what? It wasn't more wattage that did it.
Other amp makers did fail with their lesser wattage entries and others did fine, like Friedman. Orange also had quite a bit of success. They are getting even better at it.
100W invented for screaming fans was halved for the studio. 50W versions of the 100W high gain amps for recording. Yes, for recording. Meaning the tones they wanted were there. That's because it is -3db difference. 20W is a -6db difference and all this stuff about the bottom end get cut in the mix. The guitar is a mid-range instrument.
Anyway, your argument works both ways to show why it has problems. If your argument is correct, then a 100W amp and 4x12 is a sub-par tone for any bigger fish coming along and saying their full-stack is better, or 120W or 180W and a wall of sound.
The fact is your argument ends up being a Goldilocks porridge of the only type of setup you need. Not too hot, not too cold, and just the right amount of wattage you need.
My view is very different these days because it's evident that the vast majority of people can't determine the differences in blind tests. The biggest clue that there is something wrong about the 100W only-isms is how it is generally followed up with "video can't demonstrate, so trust your feeling" which points to the whole 100W claim being subjective if you can't even put down a track to get the gains from it you claim are there.
TheToneDig
Active member
Plus if you really want to confuse the 100W only-ism crowd just tell them the facts.
A 100 watt amp is dividing the speaker load by two. It isn't stacked.
50W uses the exact same output power.
The lower headroom is because it's working more.
Also, the 4x12 only-ism suffers from a similar fatal point. A 2x12 is also outputting the same wattage as the 4x12.
A 100 watt amp is dividing the speaker load by two. It isn't stacked.
50W uses the exact same output power.
The lower headroom is because it's working more.
Also, the 4x12 only-ism suffers from a similar fatal point. A 2x12 is also outputting the same wattage as the 4x12.
DanTravis62
Well-known member
"A 2x12 is also outputting the same wattage as the 4x12."
BAHAHAHAHAHA BECAUSE THAT MEANS IT SOUNDS THE SAME
Dude you really need to revise your ebook
BAHAHAHAHAHA BECAUSE THAT MEANS IT SOUNDS THE SAME
Dude you really need to revise your ebook
DanTravis62
Well-known member
He just can't help but think of everything as boiling down to one simple number - "output" or "loudness" or "its all frequencies"
It's like watching someone who thinks they can build a house because they know how to use a measuring tape, its absolutely shakespearean in the amount of blind hubris
It's like watching someone who thinks they can build a house because they know how to use a measuring tape, its absolutely shakespearean in the amount of blind hubris
I totally get it man.
