Mark heads with & without GEQ

[Racerxrated]

Pretty well documented that Mesa used whatever they had at the time, so 105/100 PTs were used between late 2C/early C+s. My 129xxx original HRG had a 100pt, and RP11 board. All original, and my upgraded 60 was better sounding to my ears. Would I think a 105 sounded better? Maybe. But until I try one, I'm of the opinion that upgraded C+ are just as sweet sounding as an original.
Mike B will tell you the same thing.

 

[ZedEsq]

Pretty well documented that Mesa used whatever they had at the time, so 105/100 PTs were used between late 2C/early C+s. My 129xxx original HRG had a 100pt, and RP11 board. All original, and my upgraded 60 was better sounding to my ears. Would I think a 105 sounded better? Maybe. But until I try one, I'm of the opinion that upgraded C+ are just as sweet sounding as an original.
Mike B will tell you the same thing.

Ok, you prefer yours to something you haven't used/heard in person - gotcha, not much left to discuss then.

 

[Racerxrated]

Pretty well documented that Mesa used whatever they had at the time, so 105/100 PTs were used between late 2C/early C+s. My 129xxx original HRG had a 100pt, and RP11 board. All original, and my upgraded 60 was better sounding to my ears. Would I think a 105 sounded better? Maybe. But until I try one, I'm of the opinion that upgraded C+ are just as sweet sounding as an original.
Mike B will tell you the same thing.

Ok, you prefer yours to something you haven't used/heard in person - gotcha, not much left to discuss then.

You seem inclined to argue. Some late 2Cs have the 105, and they have been upgraded to +s. The owners have A/Bd them with Original C+ with the 105. No difference to their ears either. The only people that are staunchly saying that originals sound better, are the guys who have a vested interest in making their original C+ value stay higher than the dreaded lowly upgrade. Kinda funny actually.
And, I don't think I said I prefer mine to something I haven't heard. I clearly stated that I might like the 105 best, but until I play one I won't know. My only point is the original vs upgrade kool aid that some seem to want to sell..I had both original and upgrade under my roof and my upgrade sounded just a bit better.
My experience is true to many others on the boogie board that have had a ton of C+s..the upgrade vs original debate is moot. They are all C+s, and the only differences can be attributed to the differences between any 2 amps of the same make/model.
Still, I would like to try a 105 sometime.

 

[ZedEsq]

Pretty well documented that Mesa used whatever they had at the time, so 105/100 PTs were used between late 2C/early C+s. My 129xxx original HRG had a 100pt, and RP11 board. All original, and my upgraded 60 was better sounding to my ears. Would I think a 105 sounded better? Maybe. But until I try one, I'm of the opinion that upgraded C+ are just as sweet sounding as an original.
Mike B will tell you the same thing.

Ok, you prefer yours to something you haven't used/heard in person - gotcha, not much left to discuss then.

You seem inclined to argue. Some late 2Cs have the 105, and they have been upgraded to +s. The owners have A/Bd them with Original C+ with the 105. No difference to their ears either. The only people that are staunchly saying that originals sound better, are the guys who have a vested interest in making their original C+ value stay higher than the dreaded lowly upgrade. Kinda funny actually.
And, I don't think I said I prefer mine to something I haven't heard. I clearly stated that I might like the 105 best, but until I play one I won't know. My only point is the original vs upgrade kool aid that some seem to want to sell..I had both original and upgrade under my roof and my upgrade sounded just a bit better.
My experience is true to many others on the boogie board that have had a ton of C+s..the upgrade vs original debate is moot. They are all C+s, and the only differences can be attributed to the differences between any 2 amps of the same make/model.
Still, I would like to try a 105 sometime.

All I'm saying is that a IIC+ w/ the 105 PT sounds and feels different than one w/ the 100 PT. I don't care if the IIC+ is a factory original or one that has been upgraded, the difference between these two PTs makes a difference in both sound and feel. I mean, come on, there's over a 50v difference in plate voltage between the two!

As to the existence of IICs w/ 105 PTs and IIC+s w/ 100 PTs straight from the factory, ok, fine. At the end of the day a vast vast majority of the IIC+ 60/100 and Simuls came with the 105 PTs, whereas a similarly optioned IIC came with the 100 PT. So, an "upgrade" w/ a 105 PT will likely sound very similar if not exactly the same as an original with the 105 PT. But your chances of finding one of those is pretty slim... Usually when people talk about upgrades, they mean the 100 PT, hence the difference.

Finally, your comparison using your upgraded 60 and the original 60/100 with the 100 PT is apples to balloons. A 60 W - either original or upgraded - sounds different than any other version of the IIC+. It's a cool amp and lots of people say they prefer them. But you can't compare that to an outlier - that being a factory original 60/100 with a 100 PT - and say that's reflective of a debate concerning upgrades versus originals. You're just not conducting the right comparison. For instance, before I bought my last IIC+ DRG, I compared an upgrade (w/ the 100 PT) with an original (w/ the 105 PT). I made a choice based on my own ears, and that experience corresponds with the general sentiment out there on the internet.

 

[japetus]

I have owned pretty much every Mark head there is, with and without EQ. I know this sounds stupid, if you know how to EQ, they are great to have. If not, I have heard people fuck their tone up just thinking they knew what they were doing with them. That could be said about IV's, V's anyway with all the options.

 

[GJgo]

My original C HRG came with the X101 tranny & RP10 board. It's one of my C++s now, but to be honest I kind of regret not leaving it a C. It was epic as a C.

I do prefer my factory 105s w/ the RP11 but it's not that one is better, just preference. I like the attack from the higher voltage. Interesting that Mike told me the tranny in the JP2C was designed after the 105, but I know they dropped the voltage to where it wouldn't cook the current production tubes. It does NOT feel the same.

Racerx, next time you're in CO you can come try mine out.

 

[Racerxrated]

If anyone is interested.....

https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/msg/ ... 05868.html

Now that's a great price.

Is it really though? Mike has raised his prices on converting them, so factor $400 for that, plus another $200-$300 for Mesa's required servicing and then shipping (back and forth, which is going to be at least $200). After all that, you still have a 100 PT, which sounds and feels noticeably "different" (I personally just went through this). Frankly, I'd rather just spend the extra few hundred bucks and get a factory IIC+ - preferably w/ simul.

As to the GEQ, it definitely makes a difference. Count me in the crowd that wouldn't buy one without it.

900 for a 2C is a great deal and not debatable IMO. With or without EQ, that's a killer amp by itself. Before I sent my old SRG C in I hesitated...crazy I know but that amp was so raw and great sounding that it was arguably the best amp I'd ever played, without a doubt. Of course I sent it in for the +, which after shipping both ways was about 600 extra. This one has no EQ so it will be cheaper to mod, by 100 I think. But, the C+ that I got back was amazing and was smoother, so it lost some of the rawness it had before. No regrets but if I found another C for a good price I just might get it and leave it a C, if it sounded like my old SRG. It was truly incredible.

It's not cheaper to mod a graphic-less than one with, and Mike's prices went up this year.

Sure, the posted amp is cool and a good value for $900 on its own. If you're after "THE" IIC+ tone everyone has in their mind, it wont start to get there until you're close to the price of a factory original anyway. Plus, the IIC has a pretty lame loop, at least compared to the IIC+. But Mike can fix that too...

Also, your IIC SRG had the same transformer as a IIC+ SRG. The same can't be said for Simuls or 60/100 - IICs had the 100s, the IIC+ had the 105.

Early 2C+ DRG/HRG did come with the 100 PT for at least a few hundred models. Some prefer the 100s, although most seem to prefer the 105s. All subjective. Just like the debate over original vs upgrade fallacy, I've had an original side by side with my upgraded 60 and the 60 won out, there goes that debate for me. Originals are worth more but not any different/better sounding amps. They're all C+s.
Here's a scenario...someone out there has a Mk III. Had it for years. Buys the 2C in Seattle and sends both amps to Mike. Pirates the GEQ and faceplate from the III and has Mike put the GEQ and faceplate from the III on the C and upgrades it. Sacrifices one amp to make the 2C+ whole with a GEQ. He's got maybe 2K into it because the III has been long paid for. Yes, the III is no more but there's a huge difference between a III and a 2C+...worth the sacrifice.

No offense, but you actually got that backwards - some VERY late IICs came w/ 105s (and the RP11 board). No factory original IIC+ came with a 100 PT stock, nor did they come with the RP10 board. But hey, if you want to link something to that effect, I'd appreciate it since I love learning more about these amps.

As to the original vs. factory debate, I totally disagree. A 105 sounds and feels very different than a 100 PT. You can prefer one versus the other, but that doesn't change the fact that they are VERY different and only one came stock in the IIC+. Again, this is different than 60s, which came with the same PT in both IIC and IIC+ forms.

As to your scenario, see my post above about the 105 PT. The "upgraded" amp will still have the 100 PT, and will therefore sound and feel different than a 60/100 with the 105 PT. That being said, I would be far more inclined to do the faceplate mod to an upgraded IIC than I would an original IIC+. I'm sure it would turn out to be a totally awesome amp, but still different than a factory IIC+. By the way - no need to buy the Mark III - Mike still has Mark III faceplates and can build you a graphic.

By the way, google "Chipaudette" - he has a really cool post about the changes Mike made to his IIC to upgrade it to IIC+ spec. Unless the IIC comes w/ the RP10 board, it's a fairly invasive process.

Drunk? No, but maybe you need to stay off the pipe...crack kills man.

You are stating that factory 2C+s came with the 105 PT. No, they didn't. The early factory 2C+ came with 100s as well.
Fact.

Get you shit straight stoner.
Or, are you the famous King Crimson that likes to swoop in from time to time and argue about 2C+?
Have yourself a great day.

 

[Racerxrated]

My original C HRG came with the X101 tranny & RP10 board. It's one of my C++s now, but to be honest I kind of regret not leaving it a C. It was epic as a C.

I do prefer my factory 105s w/ the RP11 but it's not that one is better, just preference. I like the attack from the higher voltage. Interesting that Mike told me the tranny in the JP2C was designed after the 105, but I know they dropped the voltage to where it wouldn't cook the current production tubes. It does NOT feel the same.

Racerx, next time you're in CO you can come try mine out.

Love to man!

 

[ZedEsq]

If anyone is interested.....

https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/msg/ ... 05868.html

Now that's a great price.

Is it really though? Mike has raised his prices on converting them, so factor $400 for that, plus another $200-$300 for Mesa's required servicing and then shipping (back and forth, which is going to be at least $200). After all that, you still have a 100 PT, which sounds and feels noticeably "different" (I personally just went through this). Frankly, I'd rather just spend the extra few hundred bucks and get a factory IIC+ - preferably w/ simul.

As to the GEQ, it definitely makes a difference. Count me in the crowd that wouldn't buy one without it.

900 for a 2C is a great deal and not debatable IMO. With or without EQ, that's a killer amp by itself. Before I sent my old SRG C in I hesitated...crazy I know but that amp was so raw and great sounding that it was arguably the best amp I'd ever played, without a doubt. Of course I sent it in for the +, which after shipping both ways was about 600 extra. This one has no EQ so it will be cheaper to mod, by 100 I think. But, the C+ that I got back was amazing and was smoother, so it lost some of the rawness it had before. No regrets but if I found another C for a good price I just might get it and leave it a C, if it sounded like my old SRG. It was truly incredible.

It's not cheaper to mod a graphic-less than one with, and Mike's prices went up this year.

Sure, the posted amp is cool and a good value for $900 on its own. If you're after "THE" IIC+ tone everyone has in their mind, it wont start to get there until you're close to the price of a factory original anyway. Plus, the IIC has a pretty lame loop, at least compared to the IIC+. But Mike can fix that too...

Also, your IIC SRG had the same transformer as a IIC+ SRG. The same can't be said for Simuls or 60/100 - IICs had the 100s, the IIC+ had the 105.

Early 2C+ DRG/HRG did come with the 100 PT for at least a few hundred models. Some prefer the 100s, although most seem to prefer the 105s. All subjective. Just like the debate over original vs upgrade fallacy, I've had an original side by side with my upgraded 60 and the 60 won out, there goes that debate for me. Originals are worth more but not any different/better sounding amps. They're all C+s.
Here's a scenario...someone out there has a Mk III. Had it for years. Buys the 2C in Seattle and sends both amps to Mike. Pirates the GEQ and faceplate from the III and has Mike put the GEQ and faceplate from the III on the C and upgrades it. Sacrifices one amp to make the 2C+ whole with a GEQ. He's got maybe 2K into it because the III has been long paid for. Yes, the III is no more but there's a huge difference between a III and a 2C+...worth the sacrifice.

No offense, but you actually got that backwards - some VERY late IICs came w/ 105s (and the RP11 board). No factory original IIC+ came with a 100 PT stock, nor did they come with the RP10 board. But hey, if you want to link something to that effect, I'd appreciate it since I love learning more about these amps.

As to the original vs. factory debate, I totally disagree. A 105 sounds and feels very different than a 100 PT. You can prefer one versus the other, but that doesn't change the fact that they are VERY different and only one came stock in the IIC+. Again, this is different than 60s, which came with the same PT in both IIC and IIC+ forms.

As to your scenario, see my post above about the 105 PT. The "upgraded" amp will still have the 100 PT, and will therefore sound and feel different than a 60/100 with the 105 PT. That being said, I would be far more inclined to do the faceplate mod to an upgraded IIC than I would an original IIC+. I'm sure it would turn out to be a totally awesome amp, but still different than a factory IIC+. By the way - no need to buy the Mark III - Mike still has Mark III faceplates and can build you a graphic.

By the way, google "Chipaudette" - he has a really cool post about the changes Mike made to his IIC to upgrade it to IIC+ spec. Unless the IIC comes w/ the RP10 board, it's a fairly invasive process.

Drunk? No, but maybe you need to stay off the pipe...crack kills man.

You are stating that factory 2C+s came with the 105 PT. No, they didn't. The early factory 2C+ came with 100s as well.
Fact.

Get you shit straight stoner.
Or, are you the famous King Crimson that likes to swoop in from time to time and argue about 2C+?
Have yourself a great day.

The IIC+ didn't come with the 105 PT? Ok, thanks for proving you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about!

 

[Racerxrated]

If anyone is interested.....

https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/msg/ ... 05868.html

Now that's a great price.

Is it really though? Mike has raised his prices on converting them, so factor $400 for that, plus another $200-$300 for Mesa's required servicing and then shipping (back and forth, which is going to be at least $200). After all that, you still have a 100 PT, which sounds and feels noticeably "different" (I personally just went through this). Frankly, I'd rather just spend the extra few hundred bucks and get a factory IIC+ - preferably w/ simul.

As to the GEQ, it definitely makes a difference. Count me in the crowd that wouldn't buy one without it.

900 for a 2C is a great deal and not debatable IMO. With or without EQ, that's a killer amp by itself. Before I sent my old SRG C in I hesitated...crazy I know but that amp was so raw and great sounding that it was arguably the best amp I'd ever played, without a doubt. Of course I sent it in for the +, which after shipping both ways was about 600 extra. This one has no EQ so it will be cheaper to mod, by 100 I think. But, the C+ that I got back was amazing and was smoother, so it lost some of the rawness it had before. No regrets but if I found another C for a good price I just might get it and leave it a C, if it sounded like my old SRG. It was truly incredible.

It's not cheaper to mod a graphic-less than one with, and Mike's prices went up this year.

Sure, the posted amp is cool and a good value for $900 on its own. If you're after "THE" IIC+ tone everyone has in their mind, it wont start to get there until you're close to the price of a factory original anyway. Plus, the IIC has a pretty lame loop, at least compared to the IIC+. But Mike can fix that too...

Also, your IIC SRG had the same transformer as a IIC+ SRG. The same can't be said for Simuls or 60/100 - IICs had the 100s, the IIC+ had the 105.

Early 2C+ DRG/HRG did come with the 100 PT for at least a few hundred models. Some prefer the 100s, although most seem to prefer the 105s. All subjective. Just like the debate over original vs upgrade fallacy, I've had an original side by side with my upgraded 60 and the 60 won out, there goes that debate for me. Originals are worth more but not any different/better sounding amps. They're all C+s.
Here's a scenario...someone out there has a Mk III. Had it for years. Buys the 2C in Seattle and sends both amps to Mike. Pirates the GEQ and faceplate from the III and has Mike put the GEQ and faceplate from the III on the C and upgrades it. Sacrifices one amp to make the 2C+ whole with a GEQ. He's got maybe 2K into it because the III has been long paid for. Yes, the III is no more but there's a huge difference between a III and a 2C+...worth the sacrifice.

No offense, but you actually got that backwards - some VERY late IICs came w/ 105s (and the RP11 board). No factory original IIC+ came with a 100 PT stock, nor did they come with the RP10 board. But hey, if you want to link something to that effect, I'd appreciate it since I love learning more about these amps.

As to the original vs. factory debate, I totally disagree. A 105 sounds and feels very different than a 100 PT. You can prefer one versus the other, but that doesn't change the fact that they are VERY different and only one came stock in the IIC+. Again, this is different than 60s, which came with the same PT in both IIC and IIC+ forms.

As to your scenario, see my post above about the 105 PT. The "upgraded" amp will still have the 100 PT, and will therefore sound and feel different than a 60/100 with the 105 PT. That being said, I would be far more inclined to do the faceplate mod to an upgraded IIC than I would an original IIC+. I'm sure it would turn out to be a totally awesome amp, but still different than a factory IIC+. By the way - no need to buy the Mark III - Mike still has Mark III faceplates and can build you a graphic.

By the way, google "Chipaudette" - he has a really cool post about the changes Mike made to his IIC to upgrade it to IIC+ spec. Unless the IIC comes w/ the RP10 board, it's a fairly invasive process.

Drunk? No, but maybe you need to stay off the pipe...crack kills man.

You are stating that factory 2C+s came with the 105 PT. No, they didn't. The early factory 2C+ came with 100s as well.
Fact.

Get you shit straight stoner.
Or, are you the famous King Crimson that likes to swoop in from time to time and argue about 2C+?
Have yourself a great day.

The IIC+ didn't come with the 105 PT? Ok, thanks for proving you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about!

They came with both early on. Some, with the 105 and some with the 100. Until they ran out of the 100 pt, it could be one or the other showing up in an early factory 2C+.
I think I've said this 3 different times. Maybe you need some remedial reading comprehension...I'm sure there's help for you yet.
Keep the faith brother!

 

[ZedEsq]

If anyone is interested.....

https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/msg/ ... 05868.html

Now that's a great price.

Is it really though? Mike has raised his prices on converting them, so factor $400 for that, plus another $200-$300 for Mesa's required servicing and then shipping (back and forth, which is going to be at least $200). After all that, you still have a 100 PT, which sounds and feels noticeably "different" (I personally just went through this). Frankly, I'd rather just spend the extra few hundred bucks and get a factory IIC+ - preferably w/ simul.

As to the GEQ, it definitely makes a difference. Count me in the crowd that wouldn't buy one without it.

900 for a 2C is a great deal and not debatable IMO. With or without EQ, that's a killer amp by itself. Before I sent my old SRG C in I hesitated...crazy I know but that amp was so raw and great sounding that it was arguably the best amp I'd ever played, without a doubt. Of course I sent it in for the +, which after shipping both ways was about 600 extra. This one has no EQ so it will be cheaper to mod, by 100 I think. But, the C+ that I got back was amazing and was smoother, so it lost some of the rawness it had before. No regrets but if I found another C for a good price I just might get it and leave it a C, if it sounded like my old SRG. It was truly incredible.

It's not cheaper to mod a graphic-less than one with, and Mike's prices went up this year.

Sure, the posted amp is cool and a good value for $900 on its own. If you're after "THE" IIC+ tone everyone has in their mind, it wont start to get there until you're close to the price of a factory original anyway. Plus, the IIC has a pretty lame loop, at least compared to the IIC+. But Mike can fix that too...

Also, your IIC SRG had the same transformer as a IIC+ SRG. The same can't be said for Simuls or 60/100 - IICs had the 100s, the IIC+ had the 105.

Early 2C+ DRG/HRG did come with the 100 PT for at least a few hundred models. Some prefer the 100s, although most seem to prefer the 105s. All subjective. Just like the debate over original vs upgrade fallacy, I've had an original side by side with my upgraded 60 and the 60 won out, there goes that debate for me. Originals are worth more but not any different/better sounding amps. They're all C+s.
Here's a scenario...someone out there has a Mk III. Had it for years. Buys the 2C in Seattle and sends both amps to Mike. Pirates the GEQ and faceplate from the III and has Mike put the GEQ and faceplate from the III on the C and upgrades it. Sacrifices one amp to make the 2C+ whole with a GEQ. He's got maybe 2K into it because the III has been long paid for. Yes, the III is no more but there's a huge difference between a III and a 2C+...worth the sacrifice.

No offense, but you actually got that backwards - some VERY late IICs came w/ 105s (and the RP11 board). No factory original IIC+ came with a 100 PT stock, nor did they come with the RP10 board. But hey, if you want to link something to that effect, I'd appreciate it since I love learning more about these amps.

As to the original vs. factory debate, I totally disagree. A 105 sounds and feels very different than a 100 PT. You can prefer one versus the other, but that doesn't change the fact that they are VERY different and only one came stock in the IIC+. Again, this is different than 60s, which came with the same PT in both IIC and IIC+ forms.

As to your scenario, see my post above about the 105 PT. The "upgraded" amp will still have the 100 PT, and will therefore sound and feel different than a 60/100 with the 105 PT. That being said, I would be far more inclined to do the faceplate mod to an upgraded IIC than I would an original IIC+. I'm sure it would turn out to be a totally awesome amp, but still different than a factory IIC+. By the way - no need to buy the Mark III - Mike still has Mark III faceplates and can build you a graphic.

By the way, google "Chipaudette" - he has a really cool post about the changes Mike made to his IIC to upgrade it to IIC+ spec. Unless the IIC comes w/ the RP10 board, it's a fairly invasive process.

Drunk? No, but maybe you need to stay off the pipe...crack kills man.

You are stating that factory 2C+s came with the 105 PT. No, they didn't. The early factory 2C+ came with 100s as well.
Fact.

Get you shit straight stoner.
Or, are you the famous King Crimson that likes to swoop in from time to time and argue about 2C+?
Have yourself a great day.

The IIC+ didn't come with the 105 PT? Ok, thanks for proving you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about!

They came with both early on. Some, with the 105 and some with the 100. Until they ran out of the 100 pt, it could be one or the other showing up in an early factory 2C+.
I think I've said this 3 different times. Maybe you need some remedial reading comprehension...I'm sure there's help for you yet.
Keep the faith brother!

Try reading what you wrote directly above, champ. Regardless, I'm tired of the back and forth with you. And if you feel inclined to respond, I'd greatly appreciate a link to another "factory original" IIC+ with a 100 PT, especially one in the 12,9XX as yours...

 

[EXPcustom]

Take my opinion at face value but as someone who has messed around with IIB, IIC upgraded, III and two real deal fully loaded long head IIC+s not upgraded nothing beats the real deal and simul class is a must especially when you are using 6L6 and EL34 tubes.

My advice to anyone trying to tone chase that "IIC+" grail tone, get the real deal with all options. Anything less you're just compromising.

 

[psychodave]

Take my opinion at face value but as someone who has messed around with IIB, IIC upgraded, III and two real deal fully loaded long head IIC+s not upgraded nothing beats the real deal and simul class is a must especially when you are using 6L6 and EL34 tubes.

My advice to anyone trying to tone chase that "IIC+" grail tone, get the real deal with all options. Anything less you're just compromising.

It’s all subjective. I much preferred my upgraded 2C+ Non simul with 100 transformer over my real deal factory 2C+ with 105 transformer. I ultimately had both upgraded to ++ and again, the upgraded with 100 was better sounding. I seem to prefer non-simul.

 

[Racerxrated]

If anyone is interested.....

https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/msg/ ... 05868.html

Now that's a great price.

Is it really though? Mike has raised his prices on converting them, so factor $400 for that, plus another $200-$300 for Mesa's required servicing and then shipping (back and forth, which is going to be at least $200). After all that, you still have a 100 PT, which sounds and feels noticeably "different" (I personally just went through this). Frankly, I'd rather just spend the extra few hundred bucks and get a factory IIC+ - preferably w/ simul.

As to the GEQ, it definitely makes a difference. Count me in the crowd that wouldn't buy one without it.

900 for a 2C is a great deal and not debatable IMO. With or without EQ, that's a killer amp by itself. Before I sent my old SRG C in I hesitated...crazy I know but that amp was so raw and great sounding that it was arguably the best amp I'd ever played, without a doubt. Of course I sent it in for the +, which after shipping both ways was about 600 extra. This one has no EQ so it will be cheaper to mod, by 100 I think. But, the C+ that I got back was amazing and was smoother, so it lost some of the rawness it had before. No regrets but if I found another C for a good price I just might get it and leave it a C, if it sounded like my old SRG. It was truly incredible.

It's not cheaper to mod a graphic-less than one with, and Mike's prices went up this year.

Sure, the posted amp is cool and a good value for $900 on its own. If you're after "THE" IIC+ tone everyone has in their mind, it wont start to get there until you're close to the price of a factory original anyway. Plus, the IIC has a pretty lame loop, at least compared to the IIC+. But Mike can fix that too...

Also, your IIC SRG had the same transformer as a IIC+ SRG. The same can't be said for Simuls or 60/100 - IICs had the 100s, the IIC+ had the 105.

Early 2C+ DRG/HRG did come with the 100 PT for at least a few hundred models. Some prefer the 100s, although most seem to prefer the 105s. All subjective. Just like the debate over original vs upgrade fallacy, I've had an original side by side with my upgraded 60 and the 60 won out, there goes that debate for me. Originals are worth more but not any different/better sounding amps. They're all C+s.
Here's a scenario...someone out there has a Mk III. Had it for years. Buys the 2C in Seattle and sends both amps to Mike. Pirates the GEQ and faceplate from the III and has Mike put the GEQ and faceplate from the III on the C and upgrades it. Sacrifices one amp to make the 2C+ whole with a GEQ. He's got maybe 2K into it because the III has been long paid for. Yes, the III is no more but there's a huge difference between a III and a 2C+...worth the sacrifice.

No offense, but you actually got that backwards - some VERY late IICs came w/ 105s (and the RP11 board). No factory original IIC+ came with a 100 PT stock, nor did they come with the RP10 board. But hey, if you want to link something to that effect, I'd appreciate it since I love learning more about these amps.

As to the original vs. factory debate, I totally disagree. A 105 sounds and feels very different than a 100 PT. You can prefer one versus the other, but that doesn't change the fact that they are VERY different and only one came stock in the IIC+. Again, this is different than 60s, which came with the same PT in both IIC and IIC+ forms.

As to your scenario, see my post above about the 105 PT. The "upgraded" amp will still have the 100 PT, and will therefore sound and feel different than a 60/100 with the 105 PT. That being said, I would be far more inclined to do the faceplate mod to an upgraded IIC than I would an original IIC+. I'm sure it would turn out to be a totally awesome amp, but still different than a factory IIC+. By the way - no need to buy the Mark III - Mike still has Mark III faceplates and can build you a graphic.

By the way, google "Chipaudette" - he has a really cool post about the changes Mike made to his IIC to upgrade it to IIC+ spec. Unless the IIC comes w/ the RP10 board, it's a fairly invasive process.

Drunk? No, but maybe you need to stay off the pipe...crack kills man.

You are stating that factory 2C+s came with the 105 PT. No, they didn't. The early factory 2C+ came with 100s as well.
Fact.

Get you shit straight stoner.
Or, are you the famous King Crimson that likes to swoop in from time to time and argue about 2C+?
Have yourself a great day.

The IIC+ didn't come with the 105 PT? Ok, thanks for proving you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about!

They came with both early on. Some, with the 105 and some with the 100. Until they ran out of the 100 pt, it could be one or the other showing up in an early factory 2C+.
I think I've said this 3 different times. Maybe you need some remedial reading comprehension...I'm sure there's help for you yet.
Keep the faith brother!

Try reading what you wrote directly above, champ. Regardless, I'm tired of the back and forth with you. And if you feel inclined to respond, I'd greatly appreciate a link to another "factory original" IIC+ with a 100 PT, especially one in the 12,9XX as yours...

Pay close attention to the last line...this is taken from the Boogie Board...

60W PT - 00-162310 - 448V
60W Export - PT: X62-162318 - 448V
Early 100 - 100-162318 - 448V
Simul/60-100 Power - 105-162318 -483V+
- X101-162318 – Export - 448-460V
180W - 0180322 Coliseum - 500V+

Some early IIC+’s may have leftover 100 power transformers.

Maybe I shouldn't assume you've ever read this? And of course your reading comprehension is questionable at best..
Here's a link to help you...

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=18184

As I said before, my ORIGINAL HRG combo had a 100PT. Serial 129##.
Don't believe me? Don't care.
Have a nice day sunshine!

 

[paulyc]

^ LMFAO ^ Go go go X !!!

 

[Racerxrated]

^ LMFAO ^ Go go go X !!!

Ok I'll stop now.

 

[ZedEsq]

If anyone is interested.....

https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/msg/ ... 05868.html

Now that's a great price.

Is it really though? Mike has raised his prices on converting them, so factor $400 for that, plus another $200-$300 for Mesa's required servicing and then shipping (back and forth, which is going to be at least $200). After all that, you still have a 100 PT, which sounds and feels noticeably "different" (I personally just went through this). Frankly, I'd rather just spend the extra few hundred bucks and get a factory IIC+ - preferably w/ simul.

As to the GEQ, it definitely makes a difference. Count me in the crowd that wouldn't buy one without it.

900 for a 2C is a great deal and not debatable IMO. With or without EQ, that's a killer amp by itself. Before I sent my old SRG C in I hesitated...crazy I know but that amp was so raw and great sounding that it was arguably the best amp I'd ever played, without a doubt. Of course I sent it in for the +, which after shipping both ways was about 600 extra. This one has no EQ so it will be cheaper to mod, by 100 I think. But, the C+ that I got back was amazing and was smoother, so it lost some of the rawness it had before. No regrets but if I found another C for a good price I just might get it and leave it a C, if it sounded like my old SRG. It was truly incredible.

It's not cheaper to mod a graphic-less than one with, and Mike's prices went up this year.

Sure, the posted amp is cool and a good value for $900 on its own. If you're after "THE" IIC+ tone everyone has in their mind, it wont start to get there until you're close to the price of a factory original anyway. Plus, the IIC has a pretty lame loop, at least compared to the IIC+. But Mike can fix that too...

Also, your IIC SRG had the same transformer as a IIC+ SRG. The same can't be said for Simuls or 60/100 - IICs had the 100s, the IIC+ had the 105.

Early 2C+ DRG/HRG did come with the 100 PT for at least a few hundred models. Some prefer the 100s, although most seem to prefer the 105s. All subjective. Just like the debate over original vs upgrade fallacy, I've had an original side by side with my upgraded 60 and the 60 won out, there goes that debate for me. Originals are worth more but not any different/better sounding amps. They're all C+s.
Here's a scenario...someone out there has a Mk III. Had it for years. Buys the 2C in Seattle and sends both amps to Mike. Pirates the GEQ and faceplate from the III and has Mike put the GEQ and faceplate from the III on the C and upgrades it. Sacrifices one amp to make the 2C+ whole with a GEQ. He's got maybe 2K into it because the III has been long paid for. Yes, the III is no more but there's a huge difference between a III and a 2C+...worth the sacrifice.

No offense, but you actually got that backwards - some VERY late IICs came w/ 105s (and the RP11 board). No factory original IIC+ came with a 100 PT stock, nor did they come with the RP10 board. But hey, if you want to link something to that effect, I'd appreciate it since I love learning more about these amps.

As to the original vs. factory debate, I totally disagree. A 105 sounds and feels very different than a 100 PT. You can prefer one versus the other, but that doesn't change the fact that they are VERY different and only one came stock in the IIC+. Again, this is different than 60s, which came with the same PT in both IIC and IIC+ forms.

As to your scenario, see my post above about the 105 PT. The "upgraded" amp will still have the 100 PT, and will therefore sound and feel different than a 60/100 with the 105 PT. That being said, I would be far more inclined to do the faceplate mod to an upgraded IIC than I would an original IIC+. I'm sure it would turn out to be a totally awesome amp, but still different than a factory IIC+. By the way - no need to buy the Mark III - Mike still has Mark III faceplates and can build you a graphic.

By the way, google "Chipaudette" - he has a really cool post about the changes Mike made to his IIC to upgrade it to IIC+ spec. Unless the IIC comes w/ the RP10 board, it's a fairly invasive process.

Drunk? No, but maybe you need to stay off the pipe...crack kills man.

You are stating that factory 2C+s came with the 105 PT. No, they didn't. The early factory 2C+ came with 100s as well.
Fact.

Get you shit straight stoner.
Or, are you the famous King Crimson that likes to swoop in from time to time and argue about 2C+?
Have yourself a great day.

The IIC+ didn't come with the 105 PT? Ok, thanks for proving you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about!

They came with both early on. Some, with the 105 and some with the 100. Until they ran out of the 100 pt, it could be one or the other showing up in an early factory 2C+.
I think I've said this 3 different times. Maybe you need some remedial reading comprehension...I'm sure there's help for you yet.
Keep the faith brother!

Try reading what you wrote directly above, champ. Regardless, I'm tired of the back and forth with you. And if you feel inclined to respond, I'd greatly appreciate a link to another "factory original" IIC+ with a 100 PT, especially one in the 12,9XX as yours...

Pay close attention to the last line...this is taken from the Boogie Board...

60W PT - 00-162310 - 448V
60W Export - PT: X62-162318 - 448V
Early 100 - 100-162318 - 448V
Simul/60-100 Power - 105-162318 -483V+
- X101-162318 – Export - 448-460V
180W - 0180322 Coliseum - 500V+

Some early IIC+’s may have leftover 100 power transformers.

Maybe I shouldn't assume you've ever read this? And of course your reading comprehension is questionable at best..
Here's a link to help you...

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=18184

As I said before, my ORIGINAL HRG combo had a 100PT. Serial 129##.
Don't believe me? Don't care.
Have a nice day sunshine!

A serial number in the 129XX isn't an early IIC+. It's cool, I'd be pissed if I just realized the tranny in my amp was replaced and I was too stupid to understand that.

 

[Racerxrated]

If anyone is interested.....

https://seattle.craigslist.org/skc/msg/ ... 05868.html

Now that's a great price.

Is it really though? Mike has raised his prices on converting them, so factor $400 for that, plus another $200-$300 for Mesa's required servicing and then shipping (back and forth, which is going to be at least $200). After all that, you still have a 100 PT, which sounds and feels noticeably "different" (I personally just went through this). Frankly, I'd rather just spend the extra few hundred bucks and get a factory IIC+ - preferably w/ simul.

As to the GEQ, it definitely makes a difference. Count me in the crowd that wouldn't buy one without it.

900 for a 2C is a great deal and not debatable IMO. With or without EQ, that's a killer amp by itself. Before I sent my old SRG C in I hesitated...crazy I know but that amp was so raw and great sounding that it was arguably the best amp I'd ever played, without a doubt. Of course I sent it in for the +, which after shipping both ways was about 600 extra. This one has no EQ so it will be cheaper to mod, by 100 I think. But, the C+ that I got back was amazing and was smoother, so it lost some of the rawness it had before. No regrets but if I found another C for a good price I just might get it and leave it a C, if it sounded like my old SRG. It was truly incredible.

It's not cheaper to mod a graphic-less than one with, and Mike's prices went up this year.

Sure, the posted amp is cool and a good value for $900 on its own. If you're after "THE" IIC+ tone everyone has in their mind, it wont start to get there until you're close to the price of a factory original anyway. Plus, the IIC has a pretty lame loop, at least compared to the IIC+. But Mike can fix that too...

Also, your IIC SRG had the same transformer as a IIC+ SRG. The same can't be said for Simuls or 60/100 - IICs had the 100s, the IIC+ had the 105.

Early 2C+ DRG/HRG did come with the 100 PT for at least a few hundred models. Some prefer the 100s, although most seem to prefer the 105s. All subjective. Just like the debate over original vs upgrade fallacy, I've had an original side by side with my upgraded 60 and the 60 won out, there goes that debate for me. Originals are worth more but not any different/better sounding amps. They're all C+s.
Here's a scenario...someone out there has a Mk III. Had it for years. Buys the 2C in Seattle and sends both amps to Mike. Pirates the GEQ and faceplate from the III and has Mike put the GEQ and faceplate from the III on the C and upgrades it. Sacrifices one amp to make the 2C+ whole with a GEQ. He's got maybe 2K into it because the III has been long paid for. Yes, the III is no more but there's a huge difference between a III and a 2C+...worth the sacrifice.

No offense, but you actually got that backwards - some VERY late IICs came w/ 105s (and the RP11 board). No factory original IIC+ came with a 100 PT stock, nor did they come with the RP10 board. But hey, if you want to link something to that effect, I'd appreciate it since I love learning more about these amps.

As to the original vs. factory debate, I totally disagree. A 105 sounds and feels very different than a 100 PT. You can prefer one versus the other, but that doesn't change the fact that they are VERY different and only one came stock in the IIC+. Again, this is different than 60s, which came with the same PT in both IIC and IIC+ forms.

As to your scenario, see my post above about the 105 PT. The "upgraded" amp will still have the 100 PT, and will therefore sound and feel different than a 60/100 with the 105 PT. That being said, I would be far more inclined to do the faceplate mod to an upgraded IIC than I would an original IIC+. I'm sure it would turn out to be a totally awesome amp, but still different than a factory IIC+. By the way - no need to buy the Mark III - Mike still has Mark III faceplates and can build you a graphic.

By the way, google "Chipaudette" - he has a really cool post about the changes Mike made to his IIC to upgrade it to IIC+ spec. Unless the IIC comes w/ the RP10 board, it's a fairly invasive process.

Drunk? No, but maybe you need to stay off the pipe...crack kills man.

You are stating that factory 2C+s came with the 105 PT. No, they didn't. The early factory 2C+ came with 100s as well.
Fact.

Get you shit straight stoner.
Or, are you the famous King Crimson that likes to swoop in from time to time and argue about 2C+?
Have yourself a great day.

The IIC+ didn't come with the 105 PT? Ok, thanks for proving you have absolutely no idea what you're talking about!

They came with both early on. Some, with the 105 and some with the 100. Until they ran out of the 100 pt, it could be one or the other showing up in an early factory 2C+.
I think I've said this 3 different times. Maybe you need some remedial reading comprehension...I'm sure there's help for you yet.
Keep the faith brother!

Try reading what you wrote directly above, champ. Regardless, I'm tired of the back and forth with you. And if you feel inclined to respond, I'd greatly appreciate a link to another "factory original" IIC+ with a 100 PT, especially one in the 12,9XX as yours...

Pay close attention to the last line...this is taken from the Boogie Board...

60W PT - 00-162310 - 448V
60W Export - PT: X62-162318 - 448V
Early 100 - 100-162318 - 448V
Simul/60-100 Power - 105-162318 -483V+
- X101-162318 – Export - 448-460V
180W - 0180322 Coliseum - 500V+

Some early IIC+’s may have leftover 100 power transformers.

Maybe I shouldn't assume you've ever read this? And of course your reading comprehension is questionable at best..
Here's a link to help you...

http://forum.grailtone.com/viewtopic.php?t=18184

As I said before, my ORIGINAL HRG combo had a 100PT. Serial 129##.
Don't believe me? Don't care.
Have a nice day sunshine!

A serial number in the 129XX isn't an early IIC+. It's cool, I'd be pissed if I just realized the tranny in my amp was replaced and I was too stupid to understand that.

Back on the Crackpipe again I see? That's too bad son...too bad.
2C+s started at what, 125XX? And you assert that something in the first 400 units out of 2500 or so isn't early?
See kids, this is a great example of why drugs are BAD. Makes you very dumb, and unable to read and understand things.
Let this be a lesson to you.

 

[paulyc]

Crack kills... lol

 

[GJgo]

Children.... LOL

So I went back today with my HRG C++ and the 5 band EQ pedal to A/B on the same amp. (internal G vs. in the loop) Like I did before when I said the pedal was a little more crisp. It still is. Anyway, I did it this time to see if (as some are claiming) there is a difference in range between the two. I A/Bd the internal GEQ vs. the pedal for some time, trying the throw / range of all the sliders. To my ears there's no functional difference in tonal range. Sorry, guys. Now, I'm not going to say that it's EXACTLY the same, but I will say it's PRAGMATICALLY the same.

At any rate, my early (124XX) factory C+ DR with the 105 & RP11 KILLS with no G and my single coils doing cleans / dirt, and KILLS with my EMGs and the 5 band in the loop doing high gain. If it was a factory DRG it would have cost me another $1K+ over what I paid.