Mesa 4x12: Standard (oversized) vs Traditional

[Klauth]

Do you have any notes you kept ?. This feels like the last area of tone I’ve left untouched in my life lol

Metrology is a past time of mine that I picked up in ballistics school from the military days, as well as being a certified soldering tech for avionics. combine that with my dad being a sonar tech that left me a library of hydroacoustic transducer research. you could say I have ideas of my own I source my own wire and solder per mildot avionic suppliers. I stumbled into working on cabs out of request and necessity. I don't even play guitar but, I can set one up proper. I grew up in bands and was always around guitar and bass players. I actually play drums and have become a studio owner operator/engineer. I've been fortunate to have kept good quality people in my life that have brought me a considerable skillset.

I had a client tell me the other day that he never really thought about cabinets being faster than one another but, this thing frightens me! I find it surprising how few guitar players are interested in pushing their cabinets performance. I guess it's because I come from the bye-gone era of hi-end home sound systems that had exotic speakers combined with 30 years of aerospace manufacturing AND being a metal head - so yeah...I take notes.

 

[Shask]

I might be falling victim to the alleged extra bass response in straight cabs

I only had a slant and recently bought 3 straights, and I MUCH prefer them. I think it is more than just bass. I think having 4 speakers on the same straight board does something to the phase and depth. They sound sound bigger and wider to me.

 

[Nigel]

I have a traditional strait cab with the stock speakers at band practice space. It's the only 8 ohm 4x12 I own.

I also have a standard slant that has Vintage 30 on top and G12K-85 on the bottom. 16 ohm cab. It's the most in your face cab I have ever heard. Like a spike in your forehead.

Dude V30/K85 is the SHIT for hard rock n metal tone. Viscously gloriously Br00tal!

 

[Nigel]

I have 3 Wizard cabs, a Fryette FB, a Bogner Ubercab and the Mesa Traditional. The Mesa doesn’t sound as good as any of those other cabs. I mainly use it as furniture to set my recto on while I play it though other cabs. Lol

The problem with Mesa 4x12’s is the stock wiring. While better than Marshall, half your tone is going though a momentary switch on the input jack with a contact surface the size of a pen’s ball point. This combined with parallel/series wiring is simply inferior.

Rewire with some fatty 10 gauge in series/parallel with the Aiken diagram and put some foam on the back panel like Bogner and fall in love.

Never doing this is as drastic as never hearing real V30’s like 80’s production originals or Mesa T4335/T4416.

It’s THAT big a deal.

 

[Ricky Rockhardo]

I only had a slant and recently bought 3 straights, and I MUCH prefer them. I think it is more than just bass. I think having 4 speakers on the same straight board does something to the phase and depth. They sound sound bigger and wider to me.

Straight it is!!!!!!!!

 

[stephen sawall]

Dude V30/K85 is the SHIT for hard rock n metal tone. Viscously gloriously Br00tal!

I had some darker V30 in it. It was very smooth. Currently have brighter V30 in it. Very aggressive. There is a lot of variations.

 

[FourT6and2]

The problem with Mesa 4x12’s is the stock wiring. While better than Marshall, half your tone is going though a momentary switch on the input jack with a contact surface the size of a pen’s ball point. This combined with parallel/series wiring is simply inferior.

Rewire with some fatty 10 gauge in series/parallel with the Aiken diagram and put some foam on the back panel like Bogner and fall in love.

Interesting. How are Mesa's cabs normally wired? I haven't opened mine to look. I believe series-parallel is how Marshall does it? I've only ever done it like how Bogner does it (parallel-series). If there's a momentary switch in there on a PCB or something, I'll rip that out and use a solid Switchcraft hardwired for 8 ohms.

10 AWG is way too fat for me lol. I think 12 or even 14 is good enough considering the wire gauge in the actual head-to-cab cable isn't even 10 AWG... If the speaker wire is wider than the actual solder tab on the speaker itself, it might be overkill

 

[Techdeth]

All I know is I tend to prefer 8-ohm cabs vs 16 of the same speaker configuration.

Interesting . Why ?

 

[FourT6and2]

Interesting . Why ?

Sounds darker/tighter to me.

 

[Techdeth]

Metrology is a past time of mine that I picked up in ballistics school from the military days, as well as being a certified soldering tech for avionics. combine that with my dad being a sonar tech that left me a library of hydroacoustic transducer research. you could say I have ideas of my own I source my own wire and solder per mildot avionic suppliers. I stumbled into working on cabs out of request and necessity. I don't even play guitar but, I can set one up proper. I grew up in bands and was always around guitar and bass players. I actually play drums and have become a studio owner operator/engineer. I've been fortunate to have kept good quality people in my life that have brought me a considerable skillset.

I had a client tell me the other day that he never really thought about cabinets being faster than one another but, this thing frightens me! I find it surprising how few guitar players are interested in pushing their cabinets performance. I guess it's because I come from the bye-gone era of hi-end home sound systems that had exotic speakers combined with 30 years of aerospace manufacturing AND being a metal head - so yeah...I take notes.

I def notice some cabs are faster than others . That’s almost like what’s in my head always . But this really has intrigued me

 

[Klauth]

I def notice some cabs are faster than others . That’s almost like what’s in my head always . But this really has intrigued me

My eyes opened a bit when I pulled 20 v30's from mesa cabs and they all, but two... had different impedance values.

 

[Techdeth]

Sounds darker/tighter to me.

Ok . Thanks . Sounds cool to me

 

[Meeotch]

Interesting. How are Mesa's cabs normally wired? I haven't opened mine to look. I believe series-parallel is how Marshall does it? I've only ever done it like how Bogner does it (parallel-series). If there's a momentary switch in there on a PCB or something, I'll rip that out and use a solid Switchcraft hardwired for 8 ohms.

10 AWG is way too fat for me lol. I think 12 or even 14 is good enough considering the wire gauge in the actual head-to-cab cable isn't even 10 AWG... If the speaker wire is wider than the actual solder tab on the speaker itself, it might be overkill

Correct. 14 awg is plenty for the 3-4ft of wire inside a cab, and it will be so much easier to solder. 14 awg is all you really need for speaker cable runs up to about 20ft. Beyond that you might consider going fatter. Pure copper only!

 

[Nigel]

Interesting. How are Mesa's cabs normally wired? I haven't opened mine to look. I believe series-parallel is how Marshall does it? I've only ever done it like how Bogner does it (parallel-series). If there's a momentary switch in there on a PCB or something, I'll rip that out and use a solid Switchcraft hardwired for 8 ohms.

10 AWG is way too fat for me lol. I think 12 or even 14 is good enough considering the wire gauge in the actual head-to-cab cable isn't even 10 AWG... If the speaker wire is wider than the actual solder tab on the speaker itself, it might be overkill

10 ga 238 strand oxygen free copper Marshall (not amp co.) Soundrunner is what Bogner used for years. Can't get it anymore. I have a stash I use in my cabs. Beats the snot out of anything else I've tried. Gotta use a 40w iron, but once it's made on the speaker's tab, it's made. Easy peasy.

There is no switch plate like thing in the Mesa's, it's a special 1/4" jack with a switch that closes when you insert the speaker cable.

Mesa, VHT/Fryette, and Marshall all come parallel-series, or what is known as "Series at the jack." This is so you can have more options, not necessarily better tone. Bogner and Friedman come series-parallel, or "Parallel at the jack." It's basically like having two series wired 2x12's in parallel.

With the Aiken diagram, you can even add a single pole/single throw switch to add one wire that makes it p/s, and go back and forth to see what you prefer. I always prefer series-parallel so I don't add it. I also HATE reflections from the back wall so I foam.

This 4x12 is so glorious now, especially cranked, it's a force of nature. I wish I could sneak down your chimneys like Santa Claus and rewire your cabs for Christmas. It's a gift that keeps on giving smiles and vibes. Try it, you'll like it.

 

[311boogieman]

Straight it is!!!!!!!!

I had the same question and a buddy of mine said, "Do you want your tone pointed at your knees, or do you want your tone pointed at your head - where your ears are"

The problem with Mesa 4x12’s is the stock wiring. While better than Marshall, half your tone is going though a momentary switch on the input jack with a contact surface the size of a pen’s ball point. This combined with parallel/series wiring is simply inferior.

Rewire with some fatty 10 gauge in series/parallel with the Aiken diagram and put some foam on the back panel like Bogner and fall in love.

Never doing this is as drastic as never hearing real V30’s like 80’s production originals or Mesa T4335/T4416.

It’s THAT big a deal.

FUUUUUU! Rabbit hole time

 

[RedB4Black]

put some foam on the back panel like Bogner and fall in love.

I ripped that shit out of my Bogner cab. Sucks out all the high end. Also swapped out the T75s for H75s. That cab sounds a lot better than stock, which was kind over overly dark, dull and lifeless.

As for the Mesa… I typically do rewire my cabs with high strand count oxygen free copper speaker wire. Haven’t done this on the Mesa yet, but I will when I swap out the speakers and wire it at 16 ohms

 

[Nigel]

I ripped that shit out of my Bogner cab. Sucks out all the high end. Also swapped out the T75s for H75s. That cab sounds a lot better than stock, which was kind over overly dark, dull and lifeless.

As for the Mesa… I typically do rewire my cabs with high strand count oxygen free copper speaker wire. Haven’t done this on the Mesa yet, but I will when I swap out the speakers and wire it at 16 ohms

Some prefer it, some don't. I actually like Marshall 1960 cabs with T75's with no foam too, so I know what you mean. Foam would be overkill with those speakers.

 

[FourT6and2]

Mesa, VHT/Fryette, and Marshall all come parallel-series, or what is known as "Series at the jack." This is so you can have more options, not necessarily better tone. Bogner and Friedman come series-parallel, or "Parallel at the jack." It's basically like having two series wired 2x12's in parallel.

Are you sure you don't have that backward? Bogner cabs come Parallel/Series. Marshalls come Series/Parallel. Look at that diagram I posted again and then look at the photo of a Bogner cab I posted earlier. So which one are you saying you like more? Also why? Do they sound different to you? If so, in what ways?

 

[FourT6and2]

I had the same question and a buddy of mine said, "Do you want your tone pointed at your knees, or do you want your tone pointed at your head - where your ears are"

I want it pointed at my knees for sure. And I prefer the overall sound of a straight cab compared to a slanted one.

 

[FourT6and2]

I tried one of my Bogner cabs without the insulation but ended up putting it back in. Without it, the cab is certainly more resonant. But I dunno... something about it became too much. Easy enough to back and forth.