Mesa 4x12: Standard (oversized) vs Traditional

[Nigel]

Are you sure you don't have that backward? Bogner cabs come Parallel/Series. Marshalls come Series/Parallel. Look at that diagram I posted again and then look at the photo of a Bogner cab I posted earlier. So which one are you saying you like more? Also why? Do they sound different to you? If so, in what ways?

I am 100% positive that Marshall has two 8 ohm parallel pairs of 16 ohm speakers in series for 16 ohms parallel-series. First word is how the 2x12 pairs are wired, last word is how they're wired at the jack. That's why there's two 8 ohm (2x12) jacks for stereo and then both in parallel for 4 ohms.

Mesa is similar, but using 8 ohm speakers means two 4 ohm parallel pairs but no 2 ohm all parallel.

Bogner and Friedman come one jack, two series pairs in parallel. That's series/parallel. Dave confirmed he wires them up like the Aiken diagram. Shortest runs/least amount of wire, a neat way to do it.

Diezel does it the way I like it, with two series pairs of 8 ohm speakers at 16 each for stereo, then in parallel together for all 4 at 8 ohms. Framus does this as well.

Most people prefer series/parallel wiring in a 4x12.

 

[Nigel]

I tried one of my Bogner cabs without the insulation but ended up putting it back in. Without it, the cab is certainly more resonant. But I dunno... something about it became too much. Easy enough to back and forth.

Yeah the chiner 16 ohm V30's need it fo sho. I like the back padded on V30's, even Mesa T4335's personally. The 16 ohm Mesa V30's I have are in a 2x12 stuffed with polyfil. That cab sounds so good with a single 57 I get all Dave Grohl happy when riffing to playback monitors.

 

[FourT6and2]

I am 100% positive that Marshall has two 8 ohm parallel pairs of 16 ohm speakers in series for 16 ohms parallel-series. First word is how the 2x12 pairs are wired, last word is how they're wired at the jack. That's why there's two 8 ohm (2x12) jacks for stereo and then both in parallel for 4 ohms.

View attachment 426542

Mesa is similar, but using 8 ohm speakers means two 4 ohm parallel pairs but no 2 ohm all parallel.

View attachment 426539

Bogner and Friedman come one jack, two series pairs in parallel. That's series/parallel. Dave confirmed he wires them up like the Aiken diagram. Shortest runs/least amount of wire, a neat way to do it.

Diezel does it the way I like it, with two series pairs of 8 ohm speakers at 16 each for stereo, then in parallel together for all 4 at 8 ohms. Framus does this as well.

View attachment 426541


Most people prefer series/parallel wiring in a 4x12.

What I'm saying is I think you have the nomenclature backward. Bogner's cabs are wired parallel/series, not series/parallel. Either way, whatever you call it, I think you're point is you like this first wiring method?

Bogner's cabs are like this, which is parallel-series...

This is series-parallel:

 

[skoora]

All I know is Traditional cabs are a bitch to find used. I wanted to get one for years to go with my stiletto and gave up. Ending up getting an EVH. I like the construction of it but I don’t care for the EVH greenbacks under a mic. Sounds fine in the room but the speakers have less mids and more sizzle than the Greenback re-issue I have in another cab. Hey! Anyone wanna buy some EVH greenbacks?
Back in the 90’s when they started offering the Traditional cab, I thought they made Recto’s sound better. More focused, less boomy. Also thought they sounded better for Recto’s with the C90’s. Ordered a few for the store I worked at, in that config and they seemed to be well liked by some recto folks. These days I like a Creamback 75 when I’m trying to get my T-verb to sound more alive and present and a Fane F70 when I want good mids but less fizz on top.

 

[FourT6and2]

All I know is Traditional cabs are a bitch to find used. I wanted to get one for years to go with my stiletto and gave up. Ending up getting an EVH. I like the construction of it but I don’t care for the EVH greenbacks under a mic. Sounds fine in the room but the speakers have less mids and more sizzle than the Greenback re-issue I have in another cab. Hey! Anyone wanna buy some EVH greenbacks?
Back in the 90’s when they started offering the Traditional cab, I thought they made Recto’s sound better. More focused, less boomy. Also thought they sounded better for Recto’s with the C90’s. Ordered a few for the store I worked at, in that config and they seemed to be well liked by some recto folks. These days I like a Creamback 75nwhen ai’m relying to get my T-verb to sound more alive and present and a Fane F70 when I want good mids but less fizz on top.

Same. I've been trying to find a used traditional straight cab for years. I finally gave up and bought one new last week.

 

[Greazygeo]

As much as I hate V30’s, my ‘92 OS slant cab sounds excellent. It is my main recording cab. Hasn’t needed anything other than a couple mics in front.

 

[311boogieman]

Same. I've been trying to find a used traditional straight cab for years. I finally gave up and bought one new last week.

Will you report back after honeymoon? Or should I say break-in?

 

[bugsy5150]

Scored a 2001 Straight Traditional last Saturday!!

Laughing that you guys are saying the same line that I used on my Lady to justify a five hour road trip!!!

 

[jchrisf]

What I'm saying is I think you have the nomenclature backward. Bogner's cabs are wired parallel/series, not series/parallel. Either way, whatever you call it, I think you're point is you like this first wiring method?

Bogner's cabs are like this, which is parallel-series...

This is series-parallel:

My 1960B stereo switch started malfunctioning recently so I just rewired it myself rather than buy another one of these janky switches. It seemed most people when I was researching liked the series - parallel for that Marshall tone. I tried it and it sounded bad to me. So I rewired it to parallel - series and this cab has never sounded better. I guess parallel - series is supposed to be more aggressive and series - parallel is more vintage. My cab came to life like never before with the more aggressive tone.

 

[Exo-metal]

Scored a 2001 Straight Traditional last Saturday!!

Laughing that you guys are saying the same line that I used on my Lady to justify a five hour road trip!!!

Same but it wasn't for one of these but the road trip was necessary

 

[Nigel]

My 1960B stereo switch started malfunctioning recently so I just rewired it myself rather than buy another one of these janky switches. It seemed most people when I was researching liked the series - parallel for that Marshall tone. I tried it and it sounded bad to me. So I rewired it to parallel - series and this cab has never sounded better. I guess parallel - series is supposed to be more aggressive and series - parallel is more vintage. My cab came to life like never before with the more aggressive tone.

Indeed, tone is a taste thing, and there's no such thing as "Right" taste. I played a sister band's guitar player's VHT Fatbottom with P50E's that was parallel-series and for the first time in my life I really liked that wiring. So I know it can be cool. I like it with G12T-75's in Marshall 1960 cabs as well.

What's so cool about that Aiken wiring is the ability to switch back and forth, like "Vintage/Modern" or "Rock/Metal" or something.

 

[Nigel]

What I'm saying is I think you have the nomenclature backward. Bogner's cabs are wired parallel/series, not series/parallel. Either way, whatever you call it, I think you're point is you like this first wiring method?

Bogner's cabs are like this, which is parallel-series...

This is series-parallel:

Nomenclature is correct, there was a good deal of back and forth on the subject, and I've read most of it. The consensus was to have the first word associate with the 2x12's wiring, and the last word associate with how they are wired at the jack.

Oddly enough, both of those schematics are two series pairs in parallel, as far as I can tell. The first is Aiken style series parallel, the second is also series parallel but less efficient, running two wires from each terminal on the jack instead of one. Electrically they are the same.

 

[FourT6and2]

Will you report back after honeymoon? Or should I say break-in?

Yeah totally

 

[FourT6and2]

My 1960B stereo switch started malfunctioning recently so I just rewired it myself rather than buy another one of these janky switches. It seemed most people when I was researching liked the series - parallel for that Marshall tone. I tried it and it sounded bad to me. So I rewired it to parallel - series and this cab has never sounded better. I guess parallel - series is supposed to be more aggressive and series - parallel is more vintage. My cab came to life like never before with the more aggressive tone.

Can you go into more detail? What do you mean by more aggressive and more vintage? And since there seems to be some confusion about what wiring scheme people actually use when they say parallel/series vs series/parallel, which method are you referring to—the one used by Bogner?

 

[FourT6and2]

Nomenclature is correct, there was a good deal of back and forth on the subject, and I've read most of it. The consensus was to have the first word associate with the 2x12's wiring, and the last word associate with how they are wired at the jack.

If that's the case... you prefer the method where they are wired in parallel at the jack? As in, two pairs of wire at the jack (four wires total)? It's really confusing when people use different terms to refer to the same thing.

Oddly enough, both of those schematics are two series pairs in parallel, as far as I can tell. The first is Aiken style series parallel, the second is also series parallel but less efficient, running two wires from each terminal on the jack instead of one. Electrically they are the same.

Yes—electrically, they're the same. So I'm wondering why you went through the trouble of rewiring your cabs and then say one sounds different from the other? Didn't this conversation start because you said you hated the way Mesa wires their cabs and rewired them to be Parallel/Series (or Series/Parallel, I'm still not sure which one you're talking about).

 

[the4thlast1]

Interesting. How are Mesa's cabs normally wired? I haven't opened mine to look. I believe series-parallel is how Marshall does it? I've only ever done it like how Bogner does it (parallel-series). If there's a momentary switch in there on a PCB or something, I'll rip that out and use a solid Switchcraft hardwired for 8 ohms.

10 AWG is way too fat for me lol. I think 12 or even 14 is good enough considering the wire gauge in the actual head-to-cab cable isn't even 10 AWG... If the speaker wire is wider than the actual solder tab on the speaker itself, it might be overkill

Parallel-Series is the way I wire all my cabs now. I've tried both on a switch and found a small difference between the two but preferred it the way the wiring is on the left side of the picture. 14 gauge is prob the best "compromise" because it will be better to work with the size of the speaker tabs. Ive used 12 but even thats overkill. Most spear cables that connect the cab to an amp isn't even 12 gauge.

 

[jchrisf]

Can you go into more detail? What do you mean by more aggressive and more vintage? And since there seems to be some confusion about what wiring scheme people actually use when they say parallel/series vs series/parallel, which method are you referring to—the one used by Bogner?

I used those two pics from Scumback that you posted above and wired the cab the first time with the bottom diagram (series - Parallel.) It is suppose to be the more vintage tone according to Scumback. I didn't like the way the cab sounded. Then I rewired it to the top pic Parallel/Series. I loved the way it sounded this time. This is supposed to be the more aggressive sounding config. Here is a quote from TGP where I found this:

I'm pretty sure that I also once read the Scumback dude -- who might know a thing or two about speakers and wiring -- say that series/parallel produces a slightly more vintage tone, while parallel/series is a bit more "in your face," though I could be mis-remembering.

Scumback quoted him and said he was remembering correctly: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/4x12-wiring-options.1954085/post-26731484

The Bogner might be the same as the Parallel/Series from Scumback but the jack coming from the middle instead of the top is confusing to look at.

 

[BABMusic]

Anyone else find the Rectifier cabs (any model) particularly beamy? For comparisons sake I think Bogner and Wizard cabs have a more dispersed, wider L to R sweet spot.

This is an interesting thing I'll need to explore. My only cab is a 2 x 12 Recto, and now I'm wondering if there's a better option. It doesn't sound honky with my Mark IV, but it can sound a little honky with my BE50.

I used to own a traditional Recto 4 x 12 but I sold it in 2007 for $250 to a local music store. I couldn't take it in my car when I moving because it was too big.

 

[FourT6and2]

This is an interesting thing I'll need to explore. My only cab is a 2 x 12 Recto, and now I'm wondering if there's a better option. It doesn't sound honky with my Mark IV, but it can sound a little honky with my BE50.

I used to own a traditional Recto 4 x 12 but I sold it in 2007 for $250 to a local music store. I couldn't take it in my car when I moving because it was too big.

I've had two Recto 2x12s in the past and they both sounded better than the Standard/OS 4x12 to me. Not as much low end, obviously. But the actual tone/timbre was infinitely better. But the Standard/OS I had was relatively new. The 2x12s I had... one was from 2009/10, the other was from around 2015/16.

 

[stephen sawall]

That whole series /parallel or parallel / series thing about what one is called what ... it's caused a lot of confusion.

I would love to try a cab with a switch to compare both.