Mesa 4x12: Standard (oversized) vs Traditional

[FourT6and2]

That whole series /parallel or parallel / series thing about what one is called what ... it's caused a lot of confusion.

I would love to try a cab with a switch to compare both.

Up until recently, all my 4x12s have been Bogner. I've really never used anything else. But now I have this Mesa and I have a Hiwatt on the way. I knew Marshall and some others did it differently, but whenever I wired or re-wired a 4x12, I just did what I saw in my Bogner cabs because it uses less wire, it's simpler, and it's faster.

I mean, can it get easier than this? Two parallel pairs of speakers, each wired in series. No crowded terminals anywhere. No mass of wires to try to trace and follow.

 

[stephen sawall]

Up until recently, all my 4x12s have been Bogner. I've really never used anything else. But now I have this Mesa and I have a Hiwatt on the way. I knew Marshall and some others did it differently, but whenever I wired or re-wired a 4x12, I just did what I saw in my Bogner cabs because it uses less wire, it's simpler, and it's faster.

I mean, can it get easier than this?

I currently have 8 - 4x12 cabs. None have a rear port. I have played very briefly a few times on vintage Hiwatt cabs. Wish I had one òf them too.

 

[Klauth]

All these problematic uncertain, concerns are exactly why I created a top tier 4x12 backline for my studio...so, the player...could just play, and expect the best outcome.

 

[Nigel]

Parallel-Series is the way I wire all my cabs now. I've tried both on a switch and found a small difference between the two but preferred it the way the wiring is on the left side of the picture. 14 gauge is prob the best "compromise" because it will be better to work with the size of the speaker tabs. Ive used 12 but even thats overkill. Most spear cables that connect the cab to an amp isn't even 12 gauge.

I used those two pics from Scumback that you posted above and wired the cab the first time with the bottom diagram (series - Parallel.) It is suppose to be the more vintage tone according to Scumback. I didn't like the way the cab sounded. Then I rewired it to the top pic Parallel/Series. I loved the way it sounded this time. This is supposed to be the more aggressive sounding config. Here is a quote from TGP where I found this:



Scumback quoted him and said he was remembering correctly: https://www.thegearpage.net/board/index.php?threads/4x12-wiring-options.1954085/post-26731484

The Bogner might be the same as the Parallel/Series from Scumback but the jack coming from the middle instead of the top is confusing to look at.

Both of those diagrams appear to make two series pairs of speakers in parallel at the jack. @Scumback Speakers is that correct? Top looks Aiken style, bottom looks more complicated by running four wires from the jack instead of two which pass down to the next series pair via the extra tabs on the positive and negative speaker terminals.

 

[Nigel]

Up until recently, all my 4x12s have been Bogner. I've really never used anything else. But now I have this Mesa and I have a Hiwatt on the way. I knew Marshall and some others did it differently, but whenever I wired or re-wired a 4x12, I just did what I saw in my Bogner cabs because it uses less wire, it's simpler, and it's faster.

I mean, can it get easier than this? Two parallel pairs of speakers, each wired in series. No crowded terminals anywhere. No mass of wires to try to trace and follow.

That’s exactly how I wired my Mesa OS!

 

[stephen sawall]

That’s exactly how I wired my Mesa OS!

My Standard V30 / G12K-85 cab is wired that way also. Is that correct @BackCrack ??? I bought the cab empty.

Anyway when my Brother played on it he said it went right through his brain. I have a bunch of the cabs on a switcher. People either love or hate that cab.

 

[the4thlast1]

Up until recently, all my 4x12s have been Bogner. I've really never used anything else. But now I have this Mesa and I have a Hiwatt on the way. I knew Marshall and some others did it differently, but whenever I wired or re-wired a 4x12, I just did what I saw in my Bogner cabs because it uses less wire, it's simpler, and it's faster.

I mean, can it get easier than this? Two parallel pairs of speakers, each wired in series. No crowded terminals anywhere. No mass of wires to try to trace and follow.

It can be confusing because the picture you posted on page 3 had two different wiring diagrams. I attached it here. The one on the left was labeled "Parallel-Series" Two Parallel speaker pairs connected in series at the jack. In that post you said thats the way Bogner does it.

Here you said this is the way Bogner wires the cab and the way you do it which is different from the other post. Just trying to help clear things up because it does make a small difference in tone. I would recommend to anyone who is wiring a cab fresh or wants to try something different to go for two pairs in Parallel and Series together at the jack which is the example on the left side "Parallel-Series". It's also a simple way to do it that uses a bit less wire than some of the other methods.

I am also in the process of speaker cab madness over the next several days. I have three 4x12s Im workin on, two Bogner and one Diezel that I am swapping around speakers and trying with the polyfoam and without.

 

[thegame]

That’s exactly how I wired my Mesa OS!

Congratulations, you wired it back to the stock P/S configuration, albeit with a cleaner path by getting rid of the POS stereo jack!

 

[BABMusic]

I've had two Recto 2x12s in the past and they both sounded better than the Standard/OS 4x12 to me.

Well, you've convinced me to stay away from the OS 4 x12 if you're saying that. This doesn't make much sense to me -- what kind of player would want the OS sound?

Maybe my cab is fine and maybe it's just the nature of my Friedman to sound a little more middy than the Mesa.

 

[BackCrack]

My Standard V30 / G12K-85 cab is wired that way also. Is that correct @BackCrack ???.

yup

 

[mnemonic]

There’s a lot of interesting info here. I’ve been using my one and only 4x12 for the last like 6 years (oversized Marshall MF280 with the v30 MF’s) along with a traditional sized 2x12 with Creamback h75’s. I also have an oversized 2x12 I’ve had various speakers in (blends of v30’s, k100’s, T75’s) but the smaller Creamback cab has always sounded better blended with the 4x12.

I’ve tried not to get into cabs and speaker stuff, total pain in the ass to be swapping speakers and I really don’t have the room for more cabs.

This series/parallel, parallel/series talk is interesting to me though. Maybe I should move all my heads off my cab and rewire it. I like how it sounds now but when has that ever stopped anyone from messing with a good thing. I took a picture of the insides when I got it and it’s wired the typical Marshall way.

 

[Shask]

Yeah, I find this interesting also. All my cabs have the stock wiring where they are paralleled at the jack, and then to each other. However, it sounds like most are saying the other way is more aggressive, the way with less wires.

 

[mnemonic]

Yeah, I find this interesting also. All my cabs have the stock wiring where they are paralleled at the jack, and then to each other. However, it sounds like most are saying the other way is more aggressive, the way with less wires.

I would put it on a switch like the Aiken layout so I could a/b in real time but the jack plate on my cab is the little round one with only one jack in it and no room for a switch.

No way I’m gonna actually remember the sound difference after as long as it takes to take the back off and move the wires around and put it back together.

 

[Nigel]

The simplest wiring for two series 2x12 pairs in parallel at the jack (Series/Parallel) is the Aiken diagram. This is old school Marshall, Diezel, Friedman, Bogner, etc. and most players prefer it when they hear it.

One wire added makes it two parallel 2x12 pairs wired series at the jack (Parallel/Series). This is how Mesa, modern Marshall, and VHT/Fryette wire their cabs.

This is all you need to do both and A/B to find your own revelation.

 

[Nigel]

Well, you've convinced me to stay away from the OS 4 x12 if you're saying that. This doesn't make much sense to me -- what kind of player would want the OS sound?

Maybe my cab is fine and maybe it's just the nature of my Friedman to sound a little more middy than the Mesa.

Oddly enough, Recto 2x12's are two 16 ohm speakers in parallel for 8 ohms. This sounds rad as there's a mid push using the 8 ohm tap on most amps, coupled with the extra top/bottom of 16 speakers sounds neat. Friedman does this too. So did Zinky.

With the OS 4x12, you've got two pairs of 8 ohm speakers in parallel at 4 ohms each, then those two 4 ohm pairs in series at the jack for 8 ohms total.

With the two pairs of 8 ohm speakers in series for 16 each, then in parallel together at 8, the cab will sound more like the Recto 2x12 than stock.

 

[mnemonic]

Now that I'm back home at my computer rather than trying to look at pictures on my phone at the gym between sets, I think my Marshall MF280 cab is actually parallel-series, as far as this image (reposted) describes it, so perhaps no need for me to take it apart.

I was having trouble seeing where the connections go on the scumback wiring diagrams posted above, there are links to PDFs with much higher res images on his site:
https://www.scumbackspeakers.com/wire.html

But I'm confused looking at those diagrams - aren't they both Series-Parallel per the image above, or is it too late for me to be doing this?

 

[7704A]

But I'm confused looking at those diagrams - aren't they both Series-Parallel per the image above, or is it too late for me to be doing this?

I see the same thing. Both pictures show two series pairs placed in parallel. Top diagram shows the top and bottom speakers paired, the bottom picture shows the left and right speakers paired. Unless I'm blind too.

What I personally do is run everything parallel, and use a Z-matcher to step up to a usable impedance for the amp.

 

[BABMusic]

Someone asked Dave on TT tonight about 8 ohm and 16 ohm cabs, and he said that 16 ohm sound more balanced and less high midrange. So I wonder if I should just just find a used 4x12 cab.

 

[311boogieman]

I would put it on a switch like the Aiken layout so I could a/b in real time but the jack plate on my cab is the little round one with only one jack in it and no room for a switch.

No way I’m gonna actually remember the sound difference after as long as it takes to take the back off and move the wires around and put it back together.

Someone else made a replacement jack plate like that but I can't remember who. Great idea regardless :yes

 

[thegame]

All I know is I tend to prefer 8-ohm cabs vs 16 of the same speaker configuration.

8 ohm speakers have a higher intensity pick attack and more focussed midrange. I’d be happy with any of my favourite speakers in 16 ohms but to highly nitpick the choice, my preference is also 8 ohms.