Mesa 4x12: Standard (oversized) vs Traditional

[Scumback Speakers]

@FourT6and2,
I'm pretty sure the difference I'm talking about is feel, and how the speaker responds to different wiring layouts. Both of my 4x12 diagrams have the same final ohm reading, so electrically they both get to about 14 ohms for a 412 with 16 ohm speakers. But there is a difference in the speaker response that can be heard. Or do you think Roy, George, Dave & I can't hear?

 

[dave74]

Up until recently, all my 4x12s have been Bogner. I've really never used anything else. But now I have this Mesa and I have a Hiwatt on the way. I knew Marshall and some others did it differently, but whenever I wired or re-wired a 4x12, I just did what I saw in my Bogner cabs because it uses less wire, it's simpler, and it's faster.

I mean, can it get easier than this? Two parallel pairs of speakers, each wired in series. No crowded terminals anywhere. No mass of wires to try to trace and follow.

I've only rewired two 412 cabs ever, and this is how I did both of them solely for the sake of simplicity. My reference was the series-parallel scheme from the Stew-Mac website.

 

[FourT6and2]

Yes the one on the left is the same as the one in the attached link. In my opinion that wiring yields the best tone after trying both in the same cab. There are only two ways to wire a 4x12. Either you Parallel the pairs together or you Series the pairs together. As FourT6and2 mentioned any other differences are just moving around where the wires make contact which sometimes even unessesarily adds more wire. As an electrician that part seems silly to me, but I'm not an audio expert. If you change the placement of where you make contact I dont see how that effects sound in any way other than possibly adding or removing a very tiny amount of resistance.

Exactly. You get it.

 

[FourT6and2]

@FourT6and2,
I'm pretty sure the difference I'm talking about is feel, and how the speaker responds to different wiring layouts. Both of my 4x12 diagrams have the same final ohm reading, so electrically they both get to about 14 ohms for a 412 with 16 ohm speakers. But there is a difference in the speaker response that can be heard. Or do you think Roy, George, Dave & I can't hear?

I think we're talking past one another. Simply moving a wire off the jack and soldering it to the speaker tab instead, hasn't changed how the speakers are connected—it simply changes where the speakers are connected. And that doesn't change anything at all.

Maybe you're misremembering what took place during your tests many years ago? Maybe the actual wiring was changed over from series/parallel to parallel/series or vice versa? But the number of wires on the jack has no bearing on it.

These two are exactly the same. They are both two pairs of series speakers, in parallel at the jack.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

No, I'm not "mis-remembering" the wiring scheme, nor am I confused. Why don't you try both wiring schemes yourself, and choose the one you like?

 

[Mike Oxhuge]

If I had to guess what could make the 2 ways sound different is the fact that one way puts all the power through 2 small wires vs 4. And longer runs of wire? It'd be interesting to try both ways and scan the wires with IR thermal to see if the heat signature changes. We have electricians at work do IR scanning of our electronics and you'd be shocked to see the temp difference just a loose connection can make on high voltage electronics.

 

[FourT6and2]

If I had to guess what could make the 2 ways sound different is the fact that one way puts all the power through 2 small wires vs 4. And longer runs of wire? It'd be interesting to try both ways and scan the wires with IR thermal to see if the heat signature changes. We have electricians at work do IR scanning of our electronics and you'd be shocked to see the temp difference just a loose connection can make on high voltage electronics.

A few inches of wire isn't going matter. But we're dealing with moving the same two wires from point A to point B. So the total length of wire in the system hasn't changed either way. It's just disconnecting a wire at the jack and moving it to the speaker terminal, which is STILL connected to the jack at the same exact spot.