Metro 68 Plexi series 12 vid

[Chubtone]

listen to the 71 clone metro. done by rockstah. it sounds the same. i wonder why its the same person playing the guitar. THAT`S WHY

HE sounds the same. I hear a tonal difference between the '68 and '71 clones.

 

[Anonymous]

you must have dog ears. the thing is if you have been playn non master amps for any length of time you can`t tell the difference. now jcm 900 and 800 yeah etc. they will both sound puny compared to non master. try a fender super reverb on 8 with a les paul. i can still hear good tone and those 2 clips do not sound that different in tone. imo

 

[Chubtone]

it takes some doing to move them there strings when all you got to fall back on is shear volume

Yeah, I think we know that dude. Many of us have been moving them there strings on vintage Marshalls since they were just used Marshalls. Know what I mean? sah5150, gainfreak and I were trying to get EVh tones out of old Marshalls since Roth was in the band the first time. We all seem to arrive at the same conclusion. Between our playing and the gear we can get about 90% of the tone. The last 10% seems like missing gain, yet when we boost it, it's not quite right. I think that is ALL most of us are saying. The tonality is there. The bigness, the crunch with the clarity, it's just that the liquidy lead feel Van halen obviously has, is lacking. My amps feel like they are slightly constipated and Eddies amps are roaring.

I don't even want Eddie's tone. I want HIS Set-up from the first few albums and I want to walk over to it and turn the bass knob up from 2 to 4 and then play my stuff with that tone.

 

[Anonymous]

thanks for letting me in on the down low bro. i would have never thought that.

 

[Meathead]

it takes some doing to move them there strings when all you got to fall back on is shear volume

Yeah, I think we know that dude. Many of us have been moving them there strings on vintage Marshalls since they were just used Marshalls. Know what I mean? sah5150, gainfreak and I were trying to get EVh tones out of old Marshalls since Roth was in the band the first time. We all seem to arrive at the same conclusion. Between our playing and the gear we can get about 90% of the tone. The last 10% seems like missing gain, yet when we boost it, it's not quite right. I think that is ALL most of us are saying. The tonality is there. The bigness, the crunch with the clarity, it's just that the liquidy lead feel Van halen obviously has, is lacking. My amps feel like they are slightly constipated and Eddies amps are roaring.

I don't even want Eddie's tone. I want HIS Set-up from the first few albums and I want to walk over to it and turn the bass knob up from 2 to 4 and then play my stuff with that tone.

Trying to get the album tone out of a Marshall head and cab in a room on it's own is never going to happen IMO, because part of what you are hearing on the old albums is what the mic(s) are adding due to positioning, as well as the engineering magic with outboard gear (tube comp/EQ/reverb...).

 

[Anonymous]

where have you heard evh `s amps unless it is on recording or through a pa at a concert with him playn through the amp. the only good live tone i heard from him was in 78 and the first 4 albums. i admittingly got into four holers in 1990 because of the allman bros. i had custom audio/engl/soldano in the late 80`s and just went back to my beginnings and have stayed there. peace

 

[Chubtone]

Trying to get the album tone out of a Marshall head and cab in a room on it's own is never going to happen IMO, because part of what you are hearing on the old albums is what the mic(s) are adding due to positioning, as well as the engineering magic with outboard gear (tube comp/EQ/reverb...).

I'm really just talking about the feel his amps sound like they have. It's what Rockstah keeps saying is that FINALLY he got his amp to feel right for soloing.

 

[Gainfreak]

But you're making the assumption that rockstah's marshall sounds like Ed's. His amp might not sound like Ed's amp at all. His finished recorded product gets damn close to Eddie's finished recorded product, but that's all. If you are trying to connect the dots and conclude that because of that, his amp must sound like Ed's amp, you'd be guessing at best. Maybe rockstah's Marshall sounded like Ed's before he started tweaking it, but because the rest of the chain was different, it didn't sound like Ed's final product. So he tweaked and tweaked the amp to make up for other differences/deficiencies in the whole chain of gear.

Do rockstah's recordings sound great? Yes.

But does his AMP sound like Eddie's? Nobody knows for sure. But logically, actually, I would bet that it doesn't at ALL sound like Ed's marshall, if you A/B'ed just those two amps against each other. The rest of his chain is completely different than Ed's. By virtue of that fact, if his amp sounded exactly like Ed's, his final tone would NOT sound like Ed's, because the sum of all the parts is different. Guitars, pickups, cables, pedals, outboard gear, reamping, etc. etc. All different. I didn't mention fingers because rockstah is great at playing the licks with the right kind of attack and authority. He's got the finger tone covered.

Bottom line is you can chase your tail over this until pigs fly and it will never lead anywhere. For the simple fact that everyone hears things differently and interprets what they hear differently and everybody has to take different paths to get where they are going, even if where they are going is the same damn place.

Is tone in the fingers or in the gear? Both. Duh.

Was Eddie's Marshall 'magic'? Probably not. HE was. And he stumbled upon a whole combination of gear that meshed perfectly with his style, and on top of that, had a producer/engineer who captured the sound on the first albums in a way that just blew everybody's mind.

And if that wasn't enough, I've never heard anybody make any music with that tone that wasn't either a) VH himself or B) somebody trying to make music that sounds like VH. In other words, once you've climbed that mountain, you're stuck on top of a mountain with nowhere to go! Great as it is, it's the ultimate one trick pony sound.

Ok, I'm done.

I understand that no one other then Eddie will know what his amp sounded like or if Marks amp sounds like Ed's old Magic marshall. im just saying that Mark has accomplished getting a tone that sounds similar and that's all. My arguement is simply that ive had enough with this fucking finger tone horseshit. yes... a persons fingers will affect the tone but not to the amount that some people seem to think.(in this case) Ive heard Eddie nail that tone on bootleg videos without all the production and Ive heard him sound different especially on the simmons produced stuff. the fact of the matter is that Eddie didn't always have the recipe for that sound but he found it along the way. His early 76 boots that I have sounded like a normal marshall and then there is a 77 boot before the album came out and the tone is there without Ted or Don.

I think that your statements were well thought out and worded and i agree with a lot of your points but the arguement I'm making is that some people think that the Ed tone is just his fingers and I'm calling fucking bulshit. Ive heard others do it and some of the guys who I believe who have "THE TONE" arent even lead players and they don't even have the Ed technique but they most certainly have the sound or in your words close to what I hear as the tone!

All in all, as Curt and I have discused, I would be happy with the tone that Mark got on his last clip. im not as picky as some of the other Ed tone chasers and I could stop there lol

 

[Anonymous]

I think that your statements were well thought out and worded and i agree with a lot of your points but the arguement I'm making is that some people think that the Ed tone is just his fingers and I'm calling fucking bulshit. Ive heard others do it and some of the guys who I believe who have "THE TONE" arent even lead players and they don't even have the Ed technique but they most certainly have the sound or in your words close to what I hear as the tone!

Beautiful!

I'll take it one step further. There is a guy I know (who shall remain nameless) who frequents many boards who has also dead nailed the EVH tone, yet he can't play for shit! It isn't even that he's not a lead player, he can't play the rhythms even close to correctly either. I don't mean to insult this other guy (and that is one of the reasons I'm not mentioning the guy's name/moniker - he is also a very nice guy) because I'm certainly not that good either frankly, but he really is terrible. But "THE TONE" is there spot on. You can hear it even through the bad playing. You don't need to play like Ed to nail the tone playing open Am-G... To get the stuff to have the feel in the rhythms and the attack of the leads, you need technique, but I'm just talking about the recorded sound people are getting. Put this guy's rig in Ralle or Rockstahs hands and you get the feel in the rhythms, attack in the leads and "THE TONE". Pretty close to the total EVH package. In the other guy's hands, you just get "THE TONE"...

Steve

 

[ratter]

I understand that no one other then Eddie will know what his amp sounded like or if Marks amp sounds like Ed's old Magic marshall. im just saying that Mark has accomplished getting a tone that sounds similar and that's all. My arguement is simply that ive had enough with this fucking finger tone horseshit. yes... a persons fingers will affect the tone but not to the amount that some people seem to think.(in this case) Ive heard Eddie nail that tone on bootleg videos without all the production and Ive heard him sound different especially on the simmons produced stuff. the fact of the matter is that Eddie didn't always have the recipe for that sound but he found it along the way. His early 76 boots that I have sounded like a normal marshall and then there is a 77 boot before the album came out and the tone is there without Ted or Don.

I think that your statements were well thought out and worded and i agree with a lot of your points but the arguement I'm making is that some people think that the Ed tone is just his fingers and I'm calling fucking bulshit. Ive heard others do it and some of the guys who I believe who have "THE TONE" arent even lead players and they don't even have the Ed technique but they most certainly have the sound or in your words close to what I hear as the tone!

All in all, as Curt and I have discused, I would be happy with the tone that Mark got on his last clip. im not as picky as some of the other Ed tone chasers and I could stop there lol

JUST fingers? No, hell no. You'll never catch me saying that. And hopefully nobody in their right mind is claiming that what Chubtone is joking about with the mex strat and JC is actually possible. But in my mind, there's no black/white, gear/fingers argument. It is all connected.

And put it this way - if somebody had the gear totally nailed but couldn't play for shit, who would want to listen to them anyway??

 

[ratter]

I think that your statements were well thought out and worded and i agree with a lot of your points but the arguement I'm making is that some people think that the Ed tone is just his fingers and I'm calling fucking bulshit. Ive heard others do it and some of the guys who I believe who have "THE TONE" arent even lead players and they don't even have the Ed technique but they most certainly have the sound or in your words close to what I hear as the tone!

Beautiful!

I'll take it one step further. There is a guy I know (who shall remain nameless) who frequents many boards who has also dead nailed the EVH tone, yet he can't play for shit! It isn't even that he's not a lead player, he can't play the rhythms even close to correctly either. I don't mean to insult this other guy (and that is one of the reasons I'm not mentioning the guy's name/moniker - he is also a very nice guy) because I'm certainly not that good either frankly, but he really is terrible. But "THE TONE" is there spot on. You can hear it even through the bad playing. You don't need to play like Ed to nail the tone playing open Am-G... To get the stuff to have the feel in the rhythms and the attack of the leads, you need technique, but I'm just talking about the recorded sound people are getting. Put this guy's rig in Ralle or Rockstahs hands and you get the feel in the rhythms, attack in the leads and "THE TONE". Pretty close to the total EVH package. In the other guy's hands, you just get "THE TONE"...

Steve

I know exactly who you are talking about and will leave it at that. BUT, correct me if I'm wrong - I don't think I am here - that person's rig is a totally stock Marshall circuit with the usual lineup of toys?? GE-10, etc. In other words, there's no secret sauce in the amp, and everybody running to chase rockstah, ralle, etc., should just put the solder down!!

 

[mentoneman]

hey gainy,

remember when i first posted the vic clip on HC back in the day??

that was a tone is in the fingers thread i think!

and at that time, in my opinion, vic had it the closest.


but i will admit ralle and now rockstah has raised that brown bar to the point where i don't know if you could or would even want to get closer than he has it on his clips...

my question now is will it do it in the room? the original youtube clip digijam posted doesn't sound a thing like rockstah's audio clips to me.

 

[RaceU4her]

Let me tell you Scott, there's nothing I have ever done that is as fun as this. No gig I ever played, no recording I ever did, no high school sports, no illegal drag racing, (hey I was a kid and we dragged through streets lined with cornfields) not even any sex I've ever experienced is at the level that road racing is. I can imagine sky-diving and mountain climbing are equal or more intense, but those are dangerous

i know what you mean. i raced go karts when i was a kid and nothing was more intense than that. i see people on these boards bashing nascar all the time, its cause they never actually raced in a real racing enviroment before.

 

[Chubtone]

my question now is will it do it in the room? the original youtube clip digijam posted doesn't sound a thing like rockstah's audio clips to me.

The youtube clip is Rockstah playing the stock Metro production amp '68 plexi clone. Rockstah's current clips all have some tweaks to the plexi circuit. As a matter of fact, his recent clips that are just killer feature a tweaked 1978-1979 2203 Master Volume amp combined into a 2203 with plexi power amp specs. That's certainly not the "correct" recipe.

His clips and Ralle's are what are getting the Mojave natives so restless lately.

 

[Chubtone]

i know what you mean. i raced go karts when i was a kid and nothing was more intense than that. i see people on these boards bashing nascar all the time, its cause they never actually raced in a real racing enviroment before.

I want to get my son into karting so I can get one too.

I'm not a big fan of Nascar. i won't deny the intensity and skill and balls of those drivers though. But I can't stand the way the cars look like my grandmas car with stickers. To me race cars should be exotic looking and should not weigh 3500lbs and have carburators in 2007. I prefer my racing to have upshifts, downshifts, accelerating, braking, left turns, right turns etc.

 

[degenaro]

snippage~
My arguement is simply that ive had enough with this fucking finger tone horseshit. yes... a persons fingers will affect the tone but not to the amount that some people seem to think.(in this case)

Oh fercrissake Ralph, it's all fine and good you have your point of view but the opposite is horse shit?
Gimme a fucking break, if I had a buck for every guy that can make a decent rig sound crap I could retire.
But then again seeing what I do for a living I reckon it's a good thing.

 

[Gainfreak]

snippage~
My arguement is simply that ive had enough with this fucking finger tone horseshit. yes... a persons fingers will affect the tone but not to the amount that some people seem to think.(in this case)

Oh fercrissake Ralph, it's all fine and good you have your point of view but the opposite is horse shit?
Gimme a fucking break, if I had a buck for every guy that can make a decent rig sound crap I could retire.
But then again seeing what I do for a living I reckon it's a good thing.

Im talking in the context of your comment that the player had more to do with the tone brother! I don't see it that way. Same player had a stock Marshall with the same killer technique...sounded nothing like the tone he is getting now with a few tweaks. if the tone was in his fingers then why did he have to mod the amp to make it sound like it does now? Should he have been able to do it with his fingers and only his fingers? That's all im trying to say and we will leave it at that. I found your comment that the driver had more to do with it not to ring true especially since I followed the guys search from say one. Accourding to your theory he should have had it plugging straight in unless Im missing something here.

Love Ya strudel!! Just like debating with ya!!

 

[Bob Savage]

It is right outside or Vegas and they exclusively use Corvette Z06s and Z51s. I could learn to drive a Z51 just like mine and avoid wasting my own rubber. Under $3k for 3 days...

Steve

There's a blue Z06 at work now... I'm jealous!

Oh, and I just got new tires and shocks on my car... it's very difficult not to waste rubber because it's handling and grabbing the road very nicely now!

 

[Digital Jams]

By watching all of the corrections you are doing in the turns I have to say that most of us here would have been in the dirt many times hense it is the fingers gripping the gear

Nice driving man, looks like a killer time!

Let me tell you Scott, there's nothing I have ever done that is as fun as this. No gig I ever played, no recording I ever did, no high school sports, no illegal drag racing, (hey I was a kid and we dragged through streets lined with cornfields) not even any sex I've ever experienced is at the level that road racing is. I can imagine sky-diving and mountain climbing are equal or more intense, but those are dangerous

The actor Steve McQueen got really into racing Porsche's in the 70's before his death. He has a famous quote, "racing makes heroin addiction look like a vague longing for something salty." That pretty much sums it up.

My wife's cousin has a 83 911 that was a LImerock racer that he brought back to street specs and him and I went out one night with it....was like driving a slot car and I was no where near its limits. I have driven some fast cars in my days but not on a track like what you do. I love cars, all kinds of cars from 70 hemi Challengers to 935s and if I had money that would be my one vise.

One day I will take the skip barber school at Limerock, it is about 40 minutes from me.

 

[Digital Jams]

Hey, sorry I ruined this thread guys. Back to Marshalls, Metros, Mojaves and Ed and Shea telling us all we're retarded.

Screw that....fast cars and rock is what it is all about