OPINION: VSTs Sound Like Absolute Dog Shit

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VESmedic said:
It sounds anemic because it’s a mono guitar track right up the middle. I always say you really don’t know how something is going to sound until you Double track it and hard Pan it left and right, to see the true stereo image of your tone. This is also why I said mostly MODERN metal recordings in the last 30 years or so, the majority of them sound great, and I still have no idea where this myth comes from.
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Not a ‘metal’ guy myself, but there are dozens of examples of this @Monkey Man said—not sure how amazeballs that Slash track is gonna sound doubled or in stereo??

IMO/IME good rock guitar tone—esp classic Marshall tone—sounds a bit thin and anemic by itself. Why most inexperienced guitar players use too much gain and low end when first playing with other musicians.
 
tallcoolone said:
Not a ‘metal’ guy myself, but there are dozens of examples of this @Monkey Man said—not sure how amazeballs that Slash track is gonna sound doubled or in stereo??

IMO/IME good rock guitar tone—esp classic Marshall tone—sounds a bit thin and anemic by itself. Why most inexperienced guitar players use too much gain and low end when first playing with other musicians.
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You’re assuming this track is thin and anemic because of its lack of low end without considering stereo image, that’s my point. There are countless guitar tones that sound great isolated, and the majority are double tracked left and right, period. Stereo image of the guitar effects how huge and thick a guitar tone is in the mix, there’s really no debating that. And having a huge wide tone doesn’t need a ton of low end either, unless someone wants that. What is debatable is what the track requires or the vibe the guitarist and guitarist are going for. SURELY slash could’ve gotten a much bigger and wider and “ less anemic tone” as you say, if they WANTED to on that record, but it wasn’t what they were going for, at all.

Furthermore, once again, my point was in regards to MODERN METAL productions. GNR is legendary, so is slash, and he has great tone no doubt. If they wanted it wide and huge, they would’ve done that. Can Marshall’s sound thin and anemic by themselves? Sure, so can any amp in a mix: if that’s what they were going for. I no doubt agree a Marshall’s inherent voicing contributes to how it sits in a mix, I just completely disagree that “ guitar tones often sound anemic by themselves”. It’s just not true. There are countless isolated tracks from modern productions on YouTube, and I’ve heard many myself over the last 15-20 years that you don’t hear on YouTube. Can some sound anemic? Sure, I guess? But that’s hardly the “norm” by any means. A great tone, be it bass or drums or guitars or whatever, is a great tone, and a good producer won’t say “ what do I need to neuter in my mix to make room for something else?” They ask, “ what can I enhance on another instrument to match this great tone I already have with the other?”
 
ill also guess the first one is real amp but it would be pretty easy to make either one sound worse so :dunno:
 
VESmedic said:
This is literally not a thing. One of the greatest internet myths ever, especially regarding modern metal tracks. Pure garbage. Many many many guitars sound fabulous by themselves AND in a mix. This is just simply untrue, and I have no idea where it came from.
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agreed here. this is a retarded myth, ISO guitars in metal sound great. even "shitty" tone like ...And justice and Dimebag sound rad iso


 
Holy-diver said:
agreed here. this is a retarded myth, ISO guitars in metal sound great. even "shitty" tone like ...And justice and Dimebag sound rad iso


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THANK YOU. Exactly. It’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard, like ever. A fucking killer thick tone is gonna sound killer and thick if the mix is right, period. You can have crazy amounts of gain, bass, whatever, it doesn’t matter. A great tone in a great arrangement is gonna be great, regardless. Who came up with “well, if we make this sound like shit, it’ll DEFINITELY sound great with everything else!”. Seriously, how much sense does that make when someone says that. It makes zero sense. You can have tons of bass on your guitars and still have a bass with tons of lows as well if the engineer knows what they are doing, and they can still fit sonically into their own places and sound like different instruments. Just because the modern metal production style often mixes the bass and guitars as almost one giant rhythm section, doesn’t mean they CANT do it another way, or that they CANT mix the bass huge AND the guitars huge AND have separation between them. Dumbest shit I’ve ever heard in my life.


“Oh but having a guitar with lots of bass makes the bass unheard or muddy etc”.. how is that different than literally any other problem in mixing? How is that any different than a snare drum fighting with the guitars on hits, or a bass drum operating in the same region sonically as a bass guitar and using eq etc to make them work together and both sound huge? It’s all the same shit,I just don’t get how people come up with this nonsense.
 
VESmedic said:
Yes, I’m well aware :)
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I didn't know until just before I posted that, haha. I had literally just found out. I saw you posted the iso track, so I sent it to my buddy who's close friends and has played with Chris Amott and he just told me all of that info without me asking for it. So I posted here incase anyone else wanted to know.

After a minute he said he knew how to play that short, really fast descending lick and could show me how to play it next time we hang out so that made me happy.
 
Metalhex said:
I didn't know until just before I posted that, haha. I had literally just found out. I saw you posted the iso track, so I sent it to my buddy who's close friends and has played with Chris Amott and he just told me all of that info without me asking for it. So I posted here incase anyone else wanted to know.

After a minute he said he knew how to play that short, really fast descending lick and could show me how to play it next time we hang out so that made me happy.
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Great great sounding record, great playing, great mix. Tough to beat doomsday machine for sure.
 
People can bag on the OP...but Keith Merrow posted the same thing in a neuraldsp posting. He said he hasn't found a single one that has been inspiring, or motivating to play.
 
2prog4u said:
People can bag on the OP...but Keith Merrow posted the same thing in a neuraldsp posting. He said he hasn't found a single one that has been inspiring, or motivating to play.
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I think there’s a huge difference between sounds like shit, or inspiring to play through. Because there are plenty of real amps I’ve played through that are uninspiring or im not into. I feel there’s no doubt some players have much more sensitive ears or are much more sensitive to how different amps or guitars feel etc. if we were all the same, we wouldn’t even be having this conversation. On that note, solo’d guitars with plugins jump out to me in a way that makes them obvious more often than not, that they are “fake”. The biggest being the lack of dynamics in the way the notes jump out of your speakers. Plugins sound flat in that regard to me. Distorted guitars by nature are “flat” and compressed, but the plugins being even more so. They also are extremely compressed in the low end, having this bubbly hyper over the top percussive nature that sounds exaggerated and “fake” to me. They also often have a sizzle on the top end that is inherent to them, the high end isn’t like a natural amp often. Not always, but definitely prevalent. On that note, that doesn’t mean I don’t think they sound good, by any means. I have 9 heads or so and the best high gain amps in the world, like many many here do as well, and I appreciate all my amps and plugins for different reasons. It’s up to you as the player to make it work, and there is no doubt at this point that they can work, especially for mixing purposes.


My examples: the first was my real driftwood, the second was the plugin, congrats if you guessed right. No one really said why they felt that way, I’m guessing that’s because no one was super sure on their answers. And that’s cool, it’s just a test, and a non specific or scientific one by any means. For instance, I know for an absolute fact lasse’s driftwood has much different tubes in his than mine. He’s not a fan of the kt88s, I love them in mine, and I also have 2 6CA7s with the 88s as well. I believe lasse has all 6L6s in his.
 
Here's one of mine. Keep in mind this is just a quick sample I made. See if you think this is a sim or amp, and tell me what you think. Am I even close?

 
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