Powering a Kemper - What are you using?

[RockyStar]

I have a non-powered rack unit incoming and was wondering what you are using to power your Kempers? What works well? What doesn't work well? Use it as a pre with an amp? Say the hell with it and return it upon arrival?

 

[ClintN667]

when I had a Kemper I used a Carvin Tube Power amp. It was the closest I felt to it actually being an amp in the room. There was something still off though.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

Hey Rocky!
I have the powered Kemper and the on-board 600 W power amplifier sucks…
The Kemper is an incredible tool for playing live and getting amazing sounds through a PA system, but the powered Kemper does not sound realistic through a 4X12 cabinet… (Not with the solid-state D power amplifier in the powered Kemper).
I have tried taking it out through into the return of my Bogner amplifiers, a wizard amplifier, they sound amazing!
If I were to buy a power amplifier for a non-powered Kemper, I would definitely buy the Fryette PowerStation.
Just be glad you didn’t buy the ‘powered Kemper’, I was expecting much more realistic tightness and real amplifier feel through my cabinets… Not so

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

when I had a Kemper I used a Carvin Tube Power amp. It was the closest I felt to it actually being an amp in the room. There was something still off though.

Yes, I agree 100% Clint…
It just never completely gets there, close with a good tube power amplifier, but not quite close enough.
I found it extremely frustrating trying all kinds of different ways to get my powered Kemper to sound good on its own through 4x12 cabinets… If you go on the Kemper forums, they pretty much crucify you for saying that it doesn’t sound right thru cabs, when i’m just looking for help and guidance, To see if I’m missing something…
All that happens is you get 10 guys replying ‘mine sounds perfect’ ‘mine sounds perfect’ ‘mine sounds exactly like the amplifier’ ‘dead on’ ‘I can’t tell the difference between a 100w plexi and the Kemper’… It’s just a joke??

The powered Kemper through 4x12 cabinets, it doesn’t sound or feel right.

I don’t know, I basically came to the conclusion that most guys on the Kemper forum have never played a good tube amplifier cranked through a 4X12…
So, they have no idea what it’s even supposed to sound like.

 

[RockyStar]

Hey Rocky!
I have the powered Kemper and the on-board 600 W power amplifier sucks…
The Kemper is an incredible tool for playing live and getting amazing sounds through a PA system, but the powered Kemper does not sound realistic through a 4X12 cabinet… (Not with the solid-state D power amplifier in the powered Kemper).
I have tried taking it out through into the return of my Bogner amplifiers, a wizard amplifier, they sound amazing!
If I were to buy a power amplifier for a non-powered Kemper, I would definitely buy the Fryette PowerStation.
Just be glad you didn’t buy the ‘powered Kemper’, I was expecting much more realistic tightness and real amplifier feel through my cabinets… Not so

I heard the powered Kemper was a bad decision for that exact reason so I went non powered. I want it to be as amp like as possible but am aware it is what it is as a unit itself. I am going to run it through 4x12 cab and not the powered cab. I don't mind buying something if it will make it work and be worth while sound wise but I am not going to try to polish a turd if that is what all this ends up being. I have the Boss Waza TAE and the Fryette Power Station. I have heard the Seymour Duncan 200 watt little power amp was decent with it. I have held out this long on these modelers I am almost tempted to return it when it arrives and just get more amps. The last thing I want to do is mess around trying to make this set up something it is not or can not be. Waste of time and money there so I would rather know up front.

 

[RockyStar]

Yes, I agree 100% Clint…
It just never completely gets there, close with a good tube power amplifier, but not quite close enough.
I found it extremely frustrating trying all kinds of different ways to get my powered Kemper to sound good on its own through 4x12 cabinets… If you go on the Kemper forums, they pretty much crucify you for saying that it doesn’t sound right thru cabs, looking for help and guidance…

but The powered Kemper through 4x12 cabinets, it doesn’t sound or feel right.

I don’t know, I basically came to the conclusion that most guys on the Kemper forum have never played a good tube amplifier cranked through a 4X12…
So, they have no idea what it’s even supposed to sound like.

The Kemper forum is cult like. I am not sure anybody there has played a tube amp in a live situation and has any idea what that feels like.

 

[ZEN Amps]

I've experimented a lot with my unpowered Kemper through solid state and tube power amps. It ranges from ok to pretty good, regardless of the endless tweaking options. It sounded 'best' with a DI profile played through the FX return of a VH4. And by best I mean 75% as good as a real amp. I know lots of folks say it's as good as the real thing, or so close you couldn't pick it but that's not been my experience at all.

It's perfect for the guy that wants 100's of decent sounds at the touch of a button. If you want a few awesome sounds, stick with amps.

Best of luck with it all.

 

[ClintN667]

Yeah I always explain it like going to a concert or listening to a concert recording. Technically it's the same thing but it's really not

 

[ZEN Amps]

The Kemper forum is cult like. I am not sure anybody there has played a tube amp in a live situation and has any idea what that feels like.

So true, it's kinda insane. AXE guys are in that same category, true believers.

 

[RockyStar]

I've experimented a lot with my unpowered Kemper through solid state and tube power amps. It ranges from ok to pretty good, regardless of the endless tweaking options. It sounded 'best' with a DI profile played through the FX return of a VH4. And by best I mean 75% as good as a real amp. I know lots of folks say it's as good as the real thing, or so close you couldn't pick it but that's not been my experience at all.

It's perfect for the guy that wants 100's of decent sounds at the touch of a button. If you want a few awesome sounds, stick with amps.

Best of luck with it all.

75%? I was hoping to be 90%+

Sounds like I may be pissing in the wind and hoping not to get wet.

 

[RockyStar]

Yeah I always explain it like going to a concert or listening to a concert recording. Technically it's the same thing but it's really not

I like that analogy and can relate to it. Knowing me and what I like and am after, I get the feeling I may have started a walk down a long, dead end road with this endeavor. I knew there would be a gap, I didn't expect the gap to be what I am hearing it may be. :/

 

[RockyStar]

So true, it's kinda insane. AXE guys are in that same category, true believers.

I could see them being even worse...lol.

 

[ZEN Amps]

75%? I was hoping to be 90%+

Sounds like I may be pissing in the wind and hoping not to get wet.

YMMV of course, and don't take the word of some random forum dude of course! But for me, it's a no. No digital solution touches a good amp. And I'm very open to new tech and toys, not a stubborn 'old school is the only way' guy.

In other news sex dolls aren't quite the same as the real thing, but don't mention that on the Axe or Kemper forum.

 

[K-Roll]

I've been using a 10'' yamaha frfr with great results. Honestly, I do not miss my old tube amps, not a single one and i've had a bunch over the years.

Again the problem I see with most folks is that they are trying to replicate the 'in room' sound. You can achieve that with a profile that has a combination of mics to create that full thump in your chest. Also running profiles through poweramps and real cabs requires you to find a profile that allows you to work with just the preamp section. Not a full 'amp' into another poweramp situation.

BTW...Have any of you who use tube amps heard yourself through a regular PA at the local venue? Or have any of you really just mic'd up your amps/cabs and did you listen to what they really sound like mic'd up? Kemper, axe, helix, pod, QC these are all tools for live use/recording where most had simply been developed to cut cost for touring bands and gigging musicians.

If we assume that kemper and the likes are maybe 95-98% there depending on the profile but we're getting a consistent 95-98% each time we play live then i am absolutely fine losing those couple of %s. Because unless you have your own tech - with live amps you will just sound different each night due to mic placement. Also 99% of the audience can't hear shit so....why bother

 

[ke2]

Also 99% of the audience can't hear shit so....why bother

I believe this might be the reason some love it, and some don't quite so.
It's a great tool for a working musician who has to travel light, and sound consistent and good every night (in non-pestilence times)
Pro guitarists usually play run-of-the-mill gear, because it works, and they make it sound good. And they can get a spare anywhere in the world.

 

[SQUAREHEAD]

Hi, K-Roll...
I agree with many of your comments, good stuff! The Kemper is really an amazing tool for playing live, takes me 5 to 6 minutes to set up versus one hour of carrying cabinets, affects units, heads, cables, foot switches ...
The tones that I have achieved through PA systems are nothing short of incredible, compared to real amplifiers, it’s extremely close, Plus, the control of all the high quality effects in the unit, absolutely wonderful for playing gigs.

What is very frustrating and discouraging is that I bought the ‘powered’ Kemper to also sound good/realistic through 4x12 guitar cabinets and it doesn’t, it sounds and feels WAY off the amplifier profiled… Nowhere near 90%, I would say 65-70% at most.
It’s completely missing the bottom and tightness, the punch, the actual feel of the tube amplifier is not there… And before anyone says it, you can’t simply adjust the EQ…
It ain’t there, trust me.

it aggravated me so much that I got a ticket from the manufacturer to send my unit in to get checked over, Kemper paid for everything so I got to give them that, great customer support!
Unfortunately, the unit came back to me and there is no change at all, I did not expect there would be… But I had to try, Just in case I had a malfunctioning unit.

It is what it is…

 

[K-Roll]

The other guitar player in my band uses a kemper non powered with a cheap rack solid state power amp with an orange ppc412 and his tones are to die for. We're actually running this set up for about a year where i am using the yamaha FRFR which to my biggest surprise sounded like 1000x better than the friedman asm (flubby boxy tubby congested woof) and he's running his 'old school 4x12' set up and both sound like real amps in a real situation... I was really worried first about this mixed approach but we never had a better sound ever than we do now.

To me what sucks about the kemper is the fact that unless you want to profile your own amps you simply have to buy 3rd party profiles.

You buy a pack of 100 tones for 30USD and you are lucky if you can find 5-6 that really suit the live situation. (mix ready vs live ready profiles are just different). Plus the main unit controls work like shit so fine tuning a profile to me is like - in the 3 years i have never touched the b/m/t controls and I just scroll through to find a sound that I like and adjust the gain and/or definition. That's it.
Also that whole pure cab option is a joke. It sounds like a lifeless zoom unit the moment you engage it.

I have 0 experience with the powered version honestly so can't speak to that but running the profiler through a SS poweramp + cab with say a vht deliverance profile got us 99.9% close to a real D60 we had in the same room.

Maybe it's the onboard kemper power amp. I had similar experience when a friend was running an axe II through a matrix power amp. It just did not cut through and sounded like a bag of dicks honestly. Sterile, flat, digital ... it would sound loud on its own but just did not sound like a guitar.. the moment he started playing- the other guy in the band running a 60w TSL ran over him :_)

 

[RockyStar]

YMMV of course, and don't take the word of some random forum dude of course! But for me, it's a no. No digital solution touches a good amp. And I'm very open to new tech and toys, not a stubborn 'old school is the only way' guy.

In other news sex dolls aren't quite the same as the real thing, but don't mention that on the Axe or Kemper forum.

I understand. I have been chewing on going this route for years and never have. I only considered doing so as the tech continues to improve and I figured a proper power section would make a significant difference on feel and response. Your comments just magnify a lot of the things I have heard/read over the years. The harsh reality is that modelers will never be true, proper amps.

 

[ewill52]

Love my Kemper but it's got a very specific function for me. If I'm having to go direct, recording, or using IEM's, it's great. If i'm playing a gig where I need stage volume, it's mediocre and I'm more likely to take my shiva and a cab.

 

[RockyStar]

I've been using a 10'' yamaha frfr with great results. Honestly, I do not miss my old tube amps, not a single one and i've had a bunch over the years.

Again the problem I see with most folks is that they are trying to replicate the 'in room' sound. You can achieve that with a profile that has a combination of mics to create that full thump in your chest. Also running profiles through poweramps and real cabs requires you to find a profile that allows you to work with just the preamp section. Not a full 'amp' into another poweramp situation.

BTW...Have any of you who use tube amps heard yourself through a regular PA at the local venue? Or have any of you really just mic'd up your amps/cabs and did you listen to what they really sound like mic'd up? Kemper, axe, helix, pod, QC these are all tools for live use/recording where most had simply been developed to cut cost for touring bands and gigging musicians.

If we assume that kemper and the likes are maybe 95-98% there depending on the profile but we're getting a consistent 95-98% each time we play live then i am absolutely fine losing those couple of %s. Because unless you have your own tech - with live amps you will just sound different each night due to mic placement. Also 99% of the audience can't hear shit so....why bother

I get what you are saying and the idea behind what you are saying is why I decided to consider going down this path as a side option. From what you are saying, it sounds like the frfr makes a big difference. Is that indeed correct?