Speaker Battle: V30 vs G12K-100

[King Crimson]

I will say, if I turn the master up far enough to kill small animals that are in close proximity, then it starts sounding better,...

Hey RJF, that's really not the way that Herbie was designed from what I have heard from the master himself. It's really theother way around, volume high (~12:00) and master lower.

I've attached a sample chart for anyone interested.

 

[RJF]

I will say, if I turn the master up far enough to kill small animals that are in close proximity, then it starts sounding better,...

Hey RJF, that's really not the way that Herbie was designed from what I have heard from the master himself. It's really theother way around, volume high (~12:00) and master lower.

I've attached a sample chart for anyone interested.

Thanks for that chart, which helped confirm myself I don't have my EQ way out. I cranked the master up, while having the channel volume level up fairly high also. I'm talking seriously loud.....

After listening to that clip of the speakers, I also really prefer the characteristics of the V30. Much sharper and crunchier. The 75 and 100 sounded very bland to me.

 

[axeman81]

I like the V30's for many things myself, but the Herbert is so powerful that I seem to get nasty breakup with it before the master hits full flight, so to speak
But to each his own! I play lot of palm muted riffs that absolutely depend on precision, agressive response, attack and dynamics. For big open chords, rock music, the rearloaded V30's would probably work better, to give the real "vintage feel".
What I do love about the 412FK Custom is that it is very neutral and "honest" sounding, it sounds huge, and no frequencies jump out at you (unlike the slightly harsh high-mid/treble you'd get from a cranked V30 cabinet...it is distorting)
Now with a 100W Marshall, I might have gotten away with it because the transformers are like cellphone chargers compared to the Herbert ones
The genius of the 412FK is that when you turn it up it doesn't change the tone, it just increases the volume. I really like that!

 

[Ventura]

Well, with the big announcement and all the hoopla not that long ago with regards to the "newly redesigned FL G12K100 loaded 4x12" cabs, the thing I remember hearing a lot from the Powers That Be (Diezel-Land) was that they'd steered away from V30's in order to avoid that sharp midrange bite so typical with them. The G12K100's were touted as the new bomber awesome killer cones... I unloaded a RL4x12 with G12H's in anticipation for the new GK's, and ya, I like the G12K's, but are they as rich as the G12H's...?? Maybe not. I've got an UberKab coming today or tomorrow loaded with V30's and GT's in an X pattern - my guess is, this cab will sound a little more organic and perhaps less bitey than an all 4 V30 cab.

But here we are, some of us have spent some serious LOOT on these new fangled 4x12's FL'd with G12K's and now we're seeing Diezel mix 'em up with V30's and even we as musicians changing them up to get something we're not currently getting. Kinda bugs me. Don't get me wrong, I love everything Diezel, they are awesome - and my VH4S is the epitome of a brilliant, flexible, amazing amp. But this flip-floppin' around with different cones and what not makes me wonder, if the ENTIRE cabinet was REDESIGNED and RE-ENGINEERED to sound BEST with G12K's, why is it things are going BACK to V30's and other models in the FL configuration...?? Hype?? Marketing?? Or just preference??

Whatever, I have the 4 x G12K's and since the new UberKab comes with V30's and GT's, I may just keep the G12K's in there for now and flip flop between cabs. But if it continues to sound a bit sterile... I'll be throwing some V30's in there for sure. Sigh....

V.

 

[Ventura]

PS - without a doubt, the sound off clip above has me thinking the V30's are the nicest sounding, most rich, then followed closely by the G12H's and then the G12K's and then the 75's...

But YES!!! The surrounding cab can make a HUGE difference to this.... I know this. It's sonic physics.

V.

 

[RJF]

Well, I'd just like to clarify for what I've said in this thread. My 100's were out of phase in my cab, so obviously is why I was unimpressed by them at first.

I fixed the wiring and am blown away by the new cab and 100's. Tons of bass and it's super tight and clear. I don't think I will be bothering with V30's in this cab anytime soon.

 

[King Crimson]

After listening to that clip of the speakers, I also really prefer the characteristics of the V30. Much sharper and crunchier. The 75 and 100 sounded very bland to me.

Same here. The 75 & 100 sound very similar to my ears, sterile, lackluster and uninspiring for lack of a better word.

 

[axeman81]

I wasn't aware that Diezel are going to go with a mixed setup in newer cabs! IIRC, Pauly Panacea said he tried his cab with two V30's but then he threw them right back out again. But hey, trying new shit is half the fun right??

 

[PBGas]

Kudos to the great work that Diezel has done building their new cabs. I've heard one and it sounds nice, no question.
I also know that I own a previous generation 2x12 FL cab with the Diezel speakers.
I'm not a fan of Celestion speakers in general and they aren't the be all to end all.....so, in all fairness, I decided to try a pair of G12K100s in there and it sounded somewhat better. Nothing overly dramatic but it was clearer and handled the bottom better.

Recently, I replaced the stock Diezel spec Eminence speakers with a couple of Eminence George Lynch Super V112 speakers and the difference is night and day. These speakers are ultra clear, have an awesome bottom end and just punch you in the gut when cranked. My Einstein just loves these things. I also put one into my ISO cab and it works great. When I get some time, I'll have to post up some clips. I'm really happy with this setup.

 

[King Crimson]

...and my VH4S is the epitome of a brilliant, flexible, amazing amp. But this flip-floppin' around with different cones and what not makes me wonder, if the ENTIRE cabinet was REDESIGNED and RE-ENGINEERED to sound BEST with G12K's, why is it things are going BACK to V30's and other models in the FL configuration...?? Hype?? Marketing?? Or just preference??

Whatever, I have the 4 x G12K's and since the new UberKab comes with V30's and GT's, I may just keep the G12K's in there for now and flip flop between cabs. But if it continues to sound a bit sterile... I'll be throwing some V30's in there for sure. Sigh.... V.

You’re almost correct in your examination, V. I'll have to raise the bar here and fervently declare and state publicly that it is the King Herbert to be the quintessence of all electric guitar amps, high or low, bar none!.

CH2 on Herbert possess endless tones based on how well you are able to mix up the gain, volume, TMB, -/+ switch, presence and deep.

Just for the record, my 2-4x12 Diezel Wonder Cabs are fitted with 2-V30s and two Diezel Custom speakers installed in an X pattern - unadulterated Heaven!

No need to sigh V. V30s are the bomb married with Herbert and they handle his massive power very well at all volumes and abuse.

 

[King Crimson]

I'm really happy with this setup.

Give it two weeks...

 

[Ventura]

Well, let's be realistic... Whether it's a VH4(S) or a Herbert, we're lucky to be able to play either and get to enjoy their inherent spectrum of sonic terrain...!! I picked up a new Uberschall TJ and matching Kab this evening, I believe it's filled the niche I was thinking the Herbert might fill. Lotsa room in those 2 channels (most certainly Channel 1). However, the bottom line here is - ALL - Diezel amps kick ass, period. The VH4 when I first got into them was a totally mindblowing experience. Having had the pleasure of aging with several iterations of the VH4 and 4S, I guess I just know them pretty well - and hence - feel confident in conjuring whatever tones and styles I want out of them, and what different tubes will do to their color and texture. I am sure, ample time given, the same would be for the Herbster... I ain't sayin, I'm just sayin', ya know what I'm sayin'...?!?!

The V for me has a HOOOOOOGE breadth of everything, but hey, haven't spent a lot of time on a Herbie and that's a good thing, I'd go broke if I bought every amp I played and thought was just 1+ notch above awesome.

Namaste,
V.

PS - gotsta say, that new Twin Jet has got a LOT going for it... But this isn't the forum to be spouting off about it, ahem...

 

[shadow070]

I will say, if I turn the master up far enough to kill small animals that are in close proximity, then it starts sounding better,...

Hey RJF, that's really not the way that Herbie was designed from what I have heard from the master himself. It's really theother way around, volume high (~12:00) and master lower.

I've attached a sample chart for anyone interested.

OMG! the FatFusion is damn nice, my channel two has even taken a higher level off tone bliss. I did put the mid-cut level at 1 o'clock (i share this with channel three). Now both lead channels sound somehow the same but with channel three with a little bit off extra of everything i have with the fatfusion. OMG I dont even have to walk through the rest off the chart, it was the first eq i tried and was perfect

Using a Ibanez UV777 with the stock pickups, boss dd-7 in the loop and guitar straight in the amp.

 

[richedie]

I had to chime in on this old thread since I did lots of speaker testing.

First I will say I am loving the CL80s I have in my THD....very smooth and warm! Dark too..

The G12K100s are doing great in my Bogner 212, great for all styles, really versatile.

V30s to my ears are for people with hearing damage because the upper mids piercing of the V30s can't be missed. Everytime I try V30s I can't take the headache they give me, they actually hurt! To this day I can't figure out what people like about V30s. I think the dogs in the neighborhood agree. Maybe it is me!

 

[Peter Diezel]

Thanks for sharing

Now I know why our dog Einstein is screaming

 

[the_music]

installed G12K100 in my german FL and I have to say that I prefer the V30-Speakers. The G12K100 sounds way to neutral and boring :/

 

[King Crimson]

Any opinions?

I've tried getting in touch with people regarding the new Diezel cabs to no avail...maybe after NAMM.

V30 - always. Best recording speaker on the market.

 

[RJF]

As it's been discussed in other threads, an X pattern of K100's and V30's seem to be the setup of choice. After having my FL412 with all K100's for a month or two and I started to notice a lack of bite that V30's have. The K100's were almost too smooth for my liking. Another issue I had, even after getting my phasing issue straitened out, is that my K100's don't handle big bass as well as you would read in some of these threads. I could actually make mine "woof" out at not exactly stadium volume. Infact, the magnet on a V30 is actually larger than a K100. After swapping out two K100's for V30's, I have settled on the V30/K100 "X" and can't be happier. Better bass and more mid range crunch from the V30's, but still pretty smooth and clear from the K100's.

 

[richedie]

I was told from a friend who tried the V30/K100 that the mix was too aggressive since the 100 is a fairly aggressive speakers. We tried a K100 and Mesa C-90 mix and man what a sweet mix! The C-90 is more mellow and the K100 is way more aggressive and they mix perfectly!

I just don't like V-30s. Too fatiguing on the ears! Every time I hear a guy with V30s in his cab or I have em in a cab I get a headache from the upper mids. They actually hurt! LOL.

 

[tripstan]

It's not a V30 or a G12k-100, but I've been using two G12-65's in a front load 2x12 cab I built with similar dimensions to a FL 2x12 Diezel cab with a 100 watt Einstein powering it. And I Looooov'em. I used a Dumble style amp with a two-rock 2x12 (RL oval open back) with V30's for awhile and bounce between those and two Eminence Delta Pro 12's (another sleeper speaker if you don't know about them and like EVM-12L's they are a GREAT and a much cheaper alternative.)
Anyway I liked the V30's but I totally agree that they (or at least the pair I had) have too much upper mid/highs that are a lil harsh (I have to use a compressor if I use these with the Einny). Delta Pro's are TOTALLY different. Very smooth tone, perfect for any solo tone Very nuetral and maybe somewhat naturally compressed? But anyway ever since I tried the 65's, IMO they are the best all around speaker. I play in a cover band that does just about every genre of rock. 60's (Guess Who & Stepping Wolf) all the way up to modern metal (Five Finger and A7X). maybe try swaping a pair of those in the mix? I really like them and Andy Wood turned me on to using them in a FL cab.