The Second Amendment and David Hogg

[VonBonfire]

Just created a bunch of beings to receive praise and if they don't kiss his behind they'll be forced to?

God is love. He loves you and hopes you love him in return. Your knee will bow one day, it is written.

Was he just some dude that didn't get the respect he felt he deserved in daily life from beings just like him so he made an ant farm or computer simulation loaded with people designed to boost his ego?

If that were the case he would've made un-thinking droids to serve him. Instead he gave you the gift of life and the choice who you will serve.

You, much like Crazy Nutz, seem dissatisfied that the God of the bible isn't created in the image you would like to see him as. You suggest he is egotistical, yet it is you who would like God to meet your personal moral code. So who is egotistical?

 

[Baked Bean]

Not exactly..

There's a lot more going on there than I think you are aware of.

Stop trying to bullshit everyone that you are a Christian.

 

[Picasso]

“Baked Bean” the newest member who has been “lurking” prior to joining has a giant David Hogg doll.

 

[Ben Waylin]

Stop trying to bullshit everyone that you are a Christian.

Bro, are you retarded or what ?

 

[Baked Bean]

Bro, are you retarded or what?

Bro, are you a fucking hypocritical fake Christian asshole piece of shit, or what?

 

[Ben Waylin]

Bro, are you a fucking hypocritical fake Christian asshole piece of shit, or what?

 

[VonBonfire]

I'm just asking logical questions. I'm not accusing god of stealing the guitar, bro.

So again, can the man make the choice to not steal the guitar after God knows he will steal the guitar?

Of course he can. God knows the outcome, but the thief is free to decide what he will do himself. Having foreknowledge doesn't negate someone's free will.

 

[VonBonfire]

Gods knowledge is the man will steal the guitar, but the man chose not to, and therefore did not steal the guitar.

So now you're saying god is not omniscient.

Knowing the future doesn't mean you've destroyed someone's free will. If God is omniscient and all powerful then something that seems impossible is possible. Like God knowing the future but not dumping on the thief's free will. Your argument is contradictory.

 

[Bad Brain]

I think the argument is that if god knows the future, then it is already set, and so the person can't actually choose otherwise.

 

[Bad Brain]

In response, there is a movement that posits god actually doesn't know the future, or the entire future anyways, thus keeping free will intact. But obviously this bugs some because they say it dings his omniscience ?‍

 

[VonBonfire]

Two problem still exist for the God story:
1). Hebrews 9:27 says, “People are destined to die once, and after that to face judgment.” Jesus said that people will be judged based on what they did during their lives.

What is the point? You are prejudged before you're even created.

What's the point in what?

You sound like you want an excuse for your behavior. God didn't make you do it, he just knew what you were going to do before you did You could've opted out, you CHOSE not to. Either people are responsible for their actions or it's God's fault.

The moral question:

You keep asking the same question over and over. I've already provided the answer. That God created men and some men decided to turn to evil doesn't make God responsible for the evil. If you are condeming God based on that then you should also be praising God for the good people doing good things out there. You can't have it both ways. You seem to be taking a common leftist tack that dismisses people from personal responsibility. I don't agree with it.

 

[Bad Brain]

That God created men and some men decided to turn to evil doesn't make God responsible for the evil.

I think it does, or would in our courts of law anyways... in particular if he knew what they would do.

 

[VonBonfire]

I think it does, or would in our courts of law anyways... in particular if he knew what they would do.

Except courts are basically modeled after the heavenly court. God doesn't care if some pissant judge/jury convicts him of wrongdoing in a human courtroom.They aren't his peers. I believe some jews tried to blame him for the holocaust, put him on trial and everything. Hows that working out?

 

[VonBonfire]

What's the point of judging after death. It's all known before creating you.

Because you actually did have free will during your life.

1). God 100% knows what you'll do before he creates you, however somehow you still have a choice in what you do.
Totally illogical.

It's illogical to you but if you are all powerful then it makes complete sense. You're using it as a personal deflection so you can justify not acknowledging your creator.

2). God knows if you'll do horrible acts, but will create you anyway because you somehow still have choice, which relieves god of any moral responsibility?
Totally illogical

Not at all. Again, if he's all powerful, your human "logic" no longer applies. So if he is responsible for evil people he created then he must also be responsible for the good, loving people he created also.

3) God can justify killing children for the acts of their parents.
Not even humans would do this.

God can do whatever he want and your judgments against him are meaningless.

 

[Bad Brain]

I will add one point. Contrary to many Christians self-flattering belief, not all people are looking for excuses not to recognize "Their Creator," or so they have license to "Live in sin". They are simple noting problems and have come to the (IMO) reasonable conclusion that the whole thing is made up.

 

[VonBonfire]

But IF YOUR WHOLE LIFE IS 100% KNOWN BEFORE YOU EXIST, you 100% can not change anything when you do exist.

Simple logic tells me you are wrong though. I can make coffee, I can have water instead. I could run to the store for a quart of beer. I could buy a powerade. Maybe a topo chico, that sounds good. No one forces my hand, the Lord simply knows us better than we know ourselves and so is aware of the choices we will make. Awareness doesn't equate to control over our bodily autonomy. I think you are missing that.

I have no clue how you don't understand this. I suspect you do, but you're too emotionally invested in your belief to admit it.

At anyrate thanks for the mostly pleasant discussion.

It's a matter of choice, lol. You choose cold and imperfect human logic judging the actions of an unknowable God He's the chief, I'm the indian. I choose to trust the Lord in his promises and his son Christ who the saints and martyrs testified was crucified and rose on the third day. I think we are very much alike, but also do live a very different in our perception of existence.

But for me personally your outlook offers no hope. You can say this is my personal failing or weakness, that's cool, but the Hebrews were also very weak, slaves to the mighty Egytpians and yet God delivered them with a mighty hand. All the technological, intellectual, and occult prowess of the greatest nation in it's day didn't work out. So I trust in Christ to deliver us and that includes you and other's being delivered. It's all I really have other than some guitar junk. what's that worth? What's eternity worth? It's actually all any of us have, it we choose to be cognizant of it. Be blessed.

 

[Bad Brain]

Simple logic tells me you are wrong though. I can make coffee, I can have water instead. I could run to the store for a quart of beer. I could buy a powerade. Maybe a topo chico, that sounds good. No one forces my hand, the Lord simply knows us better than we know ourselves and so is aware of the choices we will make. Awareness doesn't equate to control over our bodily autonomy.

Au contraire mon frère. It's not the awareness, it's the fact that it is impossible to choose otherwise without messing up god's foreknowledge. If god knows what he will choose before he chooses it, it is set and he can't do anything else. It logically invalidates free will. But many christians don't believe in free will anyways and that is a whole other can of moral worms.

 

[ccn]

So it's OK for my grandkids to be shot at school because freedom entails risk?

Keep liberals away from guns and these types of things would stop , you do understand that 99% of school and mass shooters in general identify as leftists I hope.

Despite what the media insist is the case Christian white males are not a threat to anybody .

 

[VonBonfire]

Au contraire mon frère. It's not the awareness, it's the fact that it is impossible to choose otherwise without messing up god's foreknowledge. If god knows what he will choose before he chooses it, it is set and he can't do anything else. It logically invalidates free will. But many christians don't believe in free will anyways and that is a whole other can of moral worms.

Except the god in your hypothetical wouldn't be all powerful if he couldn't have foreknowledge AND allow you to have free will to go with it simultaneously So, case closed.

 

[JohnnyGtar]

Keep liberals away from guns and these types of things would stop , you do understand that 99% of school and mass shooters in general identify as leftists I hope.

Despite what the media insist is the case Christian white males are not a threat to anybody .