The Second Amendment and David Hogg

[CrazyNutz]

I think the stigma is important because it’s what keeps both sides from ever compromising and coming up with a way to control something that needs to be controlled.
I love target shooting so I get why people own guns. And I’ve also lived in some absolute shitholes so I understand why some people would want to own a gun for protection.
But I think there is a wide gap between the right to protect yourself and wanting to blow something apart from 100 yards away. That’s the disconnect that people can’t seem to compromise on.

People think I’m weird for not being bothered by a few hours of drag queens in school, but my daughter has been doing active shooter drills a few times a year since she was 4. Drag queens are the last thing I’m worried about my daughter being exposed to ya know?

It’s difficult to discuss guns because any resistance is usually seen as wanting to ban them. I don’t think a ban will solve anything, but I do think some forethought has to be put in to what people can and cannot own, and what the process is to own them

I will always maintain this.

Most gun owners would own a fraction of the Guns they have now if people were not trying to take them away.

And

LGBTQ+++++ would be less in peoples face if people were not actively fighting to limit their rights.


Who's the villain here? Fox, msnbc, cnn, and most politicians. They are the ones with something to gain.

 

[VonBonfire]

I will always maintain this.

Most gun owners would own a fraction of the Guns they have now if people were not trying to take them away.

And

LGBTQ+++++ would be less in peoples face if people were not actively fighting to limit their rights.


Who's the villain here? Fox, msnbc, cnn, and most politicians. They are the ones with something to gain.

They use marginalized groups as a sledgehammer to try and split and reshape society. You are correct. Those news channels are criminal.

 

[VonBonfire]

Again if god has all the knowledge before creating you, you are not choosing.

I can choose to curse you out or bless you right now. God knows which one I will choose but he doesn't force me to do either. You're basically making an argument that says a murderer is just carrying out what God wanted him to do. The devil made me do it nonsense. If I am playing mental gymnastics then you are swinging on the monkey bars next to me.

 

[JTyson]

Confiscate guns from all democrats and never let another one purchase a gun or knife or hammer, brick, baseball bat, weed eater, trimming shears, battery acid, fireworks of any kind, scissors, shovels and vehicles...
87% of all crime, mass shootings and felony assaults with a weapon of any kind stops..
There you go, tighter gun laws that would actually save innocent lives and make a huge difference. The rest of us have no interest in tighter gun laws and don't give a shit wether or not anyone else approves or disapproves. We are not the problem. If you happen to be one of those poor delusional idiots who think criminals care what gun laws are passed, and will abide by them, you are dumb as a brick...
You're welcome..

 

[VonBonfire]

Ok @VonBonfire

Take this hypothetical analogy.

I create a robot, and as his creator I know exactly what it will do before, and after I create it.

I know this robot will commit an egregious crime.

I create it anyway. It commits the crime

Am I able to say, well, it had free will so I'm not responsible? ?‍

In other words, God is responsible for all the evil and every travesty and inconvenience in the world?

 

[Wetordry]

When I think of all the money I've spent for various shooting sports over the years....jeez.

 

[Stripped Rights]

Thus the reason Trannies are pushing it in the face of people that hate them

The people that hate them always say trannies are shoving it down their throat. Slip of the tongue or secret desire? You tell me.

 

[Ben Waylin]

The people that hate them always say trannies are shoving it down their throat. Slip of the tongue or secret desire? You tell me.

This reminds me of the time the Manhattan Project started manufacturing uranium 235, and by accident they made a bunch of this brand new element - Plutonium 239.

And Oppenheimer.. well, he gets all pissed off about the cost overruns and so he's all like, "What the fuck are we gonna do with all this plutonium."

Then, Edward Teller.. who is no relation to Edward Van Halen, well then he goes, "Wait a minute. Maybe we can blow up the plutonium !"

 

[VonBonfire]

Im just laying it all out logically. If that's the conclusion you draw from it then I guess.

According to the bible he is responsible for all things.

The other conclusion you could draw is the whole story is false.

It is the conclusion I draw. You aren't presenting a coherent argument because you can't show that foreknowledge somehow negates your own free will which you experience every minute of the day.

 

[JohnnyGtar]

No, that's just what scripture is saying.

Again, it's your moral judgment that what scripture is saying is trustworthy. You had to decide that.

 

[CrazyNutz]

It is the conclusion I draw. You aren't presenting a coherent argument because you can't show that foreknowledge somehow negates your own free will which you experience every minute of the day.

So you're telling me if a creator knows exactly what his creation will do before hand, the creation still has free will?

Let's go back to the robot analogy.

I create the robot, I know 100% of what the robot will do. Does my robot have free will, is it unpredictable?

 

[CrazyNutz]

@VonBonfire

BTW If you don't want to talk about this, that is fine. Don't feel obligated. I really don't want to offend anyone. I only speak of religious stuff when someone brings it up, or fires shots with it.

That being said I totally don't mind discussing it. But again I really don't want to offend anyone's belief.

 

[Baked Bean]

The phrase "have your cake and eat it too" applies to a lot of arguments made by Christians.

God is all-knowing. God created the universe. He created that whole thing and then decided to really focus on this one minuscule spec of dust that was a by-product of that huge universe thing he just made. So he goes all in on this spec and creates air, water, land, animals, and man. Then he spends his first few millennia teaching his new creations his gospel.

But, oops, he messed it all up. Got things terribly wrong. His creation wasn't perfect - meaning he wasn't perfect.
There wasn't a huge etch-a-sketch he could just shake up to start over so he just drowned all the sinners, as well as all the innocent children and animals - so he could start all over again. Talk about throwing the baby out with the bath water!

Am I suppose to believe that he got everything right the second try?
Nope. He's a proven failure.

 

[VonBonfire]

God knew full well what the murderer would do ahead of time, yet he created him anyway.

He didn't make anyone murder anyone. The murderer chose to commit that act. Cain is the first murderer. He beat Abel with a rock because he was jealous God received Abel's sacrifice but not his.. Is God also guilty because he made the rock? You're being obtuse. Tomorrow you can wake up and live as a saint or you can live as a lecher. It's free will and it can co-exist with an all knowing God.

If he knows, then it was pre determined.

You are wrongly equating the two things when they are separate. Having knowledge of an outcome does not mean the person is without a choice. If you can't see that, then we are possibly reaching an impasse. And no worries, it's fine to discuss, there are no hard feelings or anything like that. Thanks.

 

[VonBonfire]

Would you create a being that you 100% know will kill someone?

That would mean that I created all of those beings and in dong so, can restore life to the being whose life was stolen.

Would you create a world full of beings that you 100% know will anger you, or make you jealous?

But I also know 100% that many of those beings would love and bring honor, glory, and worship to me. The ones that didn't would later be forced to so fall in line so I don't see the problem.

And then kill them all, knowing that you would kill them before you even created them?

If the creation had spun out of control, yeah, I'd wipe the slate clean.

Seriously think about that for a second. You 100% know what a being will do before you create it. This said being is not yet in existence to even make any choices yet. But you know what it will do. This is beyond a shadow of a doubt predetermination of the creator.

Knowing the outcome is not pre-determining the outcome though. What you are suggesting leads to other falsehoods. There is no right or wrong in the theoretical world you created because any and every action is ascribed to God's responsibility, and not the responsibility of the created being who carried out those actions, willingly. The whole basis of law and morals contradicts the claim you make.

A man steals your guitar. God made the man. God stole the guitar because he created the man and knew he would steal the guitar. Very flawed logic.

 

[Ben Waylin]

So you're telling me if a creator knows exactly what his creation will do before hand, the creation still has free will?

From our point of view, yes.

 

[Ben Waylin]

I'm still speaking of the flood where everyone was killed even innocent children, except the boaters.

Not exactly..

There's a lot more going on there than I think you are aware of.

 

[Ben Waylin]

Ok two dinosaurs of each kind fit on the boat, and stuff

Thank you for making my point for me.

 

[VonBonfire]

Can the man make the choice to not steal the guitar after god knows he will?

God knowing whether he will steal it or not has no effect on the individual's personal decision to steal the guitar. God didn't force him to steal anything. The persona made a conscious decision to steal the guitar, driven by greed and covetousness which is also forbidden in scripture. So God caused him to violate God's own commands? Ludicrous.

 

[Stripped Rights]

But I (god) also know 100% that many of those beings would love and bring honor, glory, and worship to me. The ones that didn't would later be forced to so fall in line so I don't see the problem.

So is God some kind of ego maniac or something? Just created a bunch of beings to receive praise and if they don't kiss his behind they'll be forced to? Sounds weird.

Was he just some dude that didn't get the respect he felt he deserved in daily life from beings just like him so he made an ant farm or computer simulation loaded with people designed to boost his ego? Being serious here. I asked something similar in my creationism thread.

Edit How TF did a 2A thread turn into some philosophical shit?