Thoughts on the small amp trend

[1big1]

I do admire guys that can show up with pretty much anything and still sound great. You have to be a real guitar player to pull that off. I dont know if I fit in that catagory

that sure isn't me either. hell.. i'm lucky they don't make me pay to play.

 

[billboogie]

Man you have run through some equipment!(I envy you). Funny you mention tranformer size. I say this because my DC-5(Normally 50watts.But with the GT Substitubes I use now it's down to about 20-25w) has way more bass response than my Rebel20. The DC certainly does have a larger tranformer but has the same power tube set-up as the Rebel20. Interesting.

 

[stephen sawall]

The transformer is by far the most important part of any guitar rig if you ask me.

I do not buy a lot of gear .... it just has piled up over the last 39 years of playing.

 

[blackba]

The transformer is by far the most important part of any guitar rig if you ask me.

I do not buy a lot of gear .... it just has piled up over the last 39 years of playing.

Boy do I know that feeling. Looking around and thinking, how did I get to have all this stuff

 

[JTyson]

My wife does that all the time

 

[MOAAH]

It's not a trend, there will always be a need for smaller amps like my little pride and joy:

I haven't built any in years but I get calls for them almost everyday.

 

[stephen sawall]

It's not a trend, there will always be a need for smaller amps like my little pride and joy:

I haven't built any in years but I get calls for them almost everyday.

That red look so cool in there.

My wife does that all the time

LOL

 

[MOAAH]

It's not a trend, there will always be a need for smaller amps like my little pride and joy:

I haven't built any in years but I get calls for them almost everyday.

That red look so cool in there.

Thanks man, the snakeskin was even hotter IMO

Even 5 years after I built this model I still have never seen a 5 wt amp with as many knobs or an FX loop.

 

[JTyson]

It's not a trend, there will always be a need for smaller amps like my little pride and joy:

I haven't built any in years but I get calls for them almost everyday.

That red look so cool in there.

Thanks man, the snakeskin was even hotter IMO

Even 5 years after I built this model I still have never seen a 5 wt amp with as many knobs or an FX loop.

thats one of the coolest 5 watters ever What kind of output tube??

 

[MOAAH]

thats one of the coolest 5 watters ever What kind of output tube??

Thanks man, I had a lot of fun before the big guys started making small amps again.

That particular one had a 6V6, but I used to make them with a EL84 also, as in this:

That one had a slave and headphone out instead of an FX loop.

It was fun making amps for all those years. Forced me to become a better player but the coolest thing was meeting people from all over America and some really far out places offshore.

 

[stratotone]

Stephen, It's all good. I just wanted to get my facts straight. Hope you feel better. The smaller amps won't be a trend because they are practical. You have more bedroom musicians and bar gigging musicians than stadium rockers and they just don't need that much power. I can use more of my volume stacks because nobodies ears are bleeding when I get to 3 or 4 o'clock on them. Also, choice of cabinet and speakers will get you the bass response you are looking for.

Well that's the thing .... they do not. I like the small amps, but no matter what else is used without the big transformers there is no way to get the big modern bass I use for a lot of things.

I have over a dozen amps from 5 to 150 watts, over 40 guitar speakers and more than a dozen cabinets. ..... and have tried out I do not know how much gear. Most of the gigs I do now are small, but I have opened for a lot of major acts and have played in front of thousands many times. I mostly just bring the small amps as a back up if the bigger ones have a problem or am just being lazy.

No matter what you do with a small amp .... it well not put out the bass of a Dual Rectifier/ Ubershall / Herbert as far as I can tell.

`
...and really low bass is really up to the bass player IMHO... how do your bass heavy guitar mixes sound like up front? And Justice For All is a great example of having a bass heavy guitar tone that may please on it's own but is poison for a good mix. At least if you want to have a bass player...

Also low bass on guitar murks stuff up something horrible onstage too. If you had to have low end in your tone, it can always be added at the soundboard.

Just my opinion. Of course, I usually gig with halfstacks because even though I run low volume, I like em for size and appearance. I've also played casino gigs where volume was an issue with an axe fx and used their wedges for monitoring. Was a little different but was fine. Also even gigged a few times with 18 watt heads and 1x12 sealed cabs. Whatever works.

Pete

 

[billboogie]

+1 Stratotone,

I played bass heavy tones when I was younger. When Youtube came around and I heard some isolated tracks of some of my favs (Slash, Angus,Jimmy Page,Billy G.) I was astonished to hear how trebley and thin their tone really was. Went back and listened to the same songs complete and understood the relationship between The bass players responsibility and mine. At band practice I slowly tweeked bass down while bringing Mostly mids and some treble (no need for much with the bass lower) and my cut through the band was much clearer (even the drummer noticed),just a much better mix. That was really an eye opener for myself. Love to play! Learn everyday!

 

[billboogie]

MOAAH,

Those amps look sweet. Is the combo 40-50 watts? Nice job!

 

[UltraGary]

Regardless of decibal math (or ohm calculations, or....) I don't think the new generation of small amps is a trend, as there's far too much use for them in homes across the world. What I do think is a trend is the mathmatical debating on whether these will replace bigger amps on stage.
For those who are lucky enough to have proper P.A.s & sound-men helping them along every night?......"sure". For most players in real-world situations...."no way".
That said....I want one BAD!

 

[billboogie]

+1 UltraGary, very practical.

 

[1big1]

Regardless of decibal math (or ohm calculations, or....) I don't think the new generation of small amps is a trend, as there's far too much use for them in homes across the world. What I do think is a trend is the mathmatical debating on whether these will replace bigger amps on stage.
For those who are lucky enough to have proper P.A.s & sound-men helping them along every night?......"sure". For most players in real-world situations...."no way".
That said....I want one BAD!

bingo. also bill's comment about bass response on recorded tones is pretty accurate imho. champs were used for a lot of recordings back in the day for very good reasons.
i've got a little 4 watt magnatone that i need to fuse the ac in on and change it over to a three wire power supply. on it's own it doesn't sound large.. put a mike in front of it and it sounds really good.. imho.

 

[MOAAH]

Also low bass on guitar murks stuff up something horrible onstage too. If you had to have low end in your tone, it can always be added at the soundboard.

+2
While I would agree I know quite a few classic rock players who just love to have super thick tone. I never need it with my own modern swing to older tunes, but many folks still crank that bass knob. It drives me crazy when I'm doing production; no clarity and there is a tendency in some acoustic environments for everything to sound muddled together.

These days I'm using a preamp with a compensated OP strait into the board. Sure I get no power tube distortion, but my somewhat modern tone ain't dependent on a whack of saturated power tubes. No need for costly heads and heavy cabs here, it's all about tube preamp overdrive but without pedals.
60 second sample: https://soundclick.com/share?songid=6215828
Try and bear with it till 0:21, that's when things start to grove.

 

[MOAAH]

MOAAH,

Those amps look sweet. Is the combo 40-50 watts? Nice job!

Thanks!
But no, those posted were both 5wts much like this prototype that I still think is the most complicated 5 watter evar designed:

Just count them preamp tubes! I did make larger amps too, but so did everyone else so they were not as much fun

 

[moltenmetalburn]

Like my thread yesterday, I love the HT-5. If I ever used it to play out, I would use my slave w/d/w rig.

At home I still use the Camerons, Marshalls (100 Watt), Boogies 180 Watts and 75 Watts and don't have to crank them to get them to sing -- BUT some guys insist they have to be cranked to sound good. BS, just gotta know what you're doing.
My $.02

one thing to consider. A tube change on a ht-5 vs a tube change on your 100 watt amp. Over years of use your gonna save money. I don't have a ht-5 or similar amp I use my bigger amps since they do lower volumes very well. I am ust stating a reason for why someone might. Maybe for a light easy gig back up also.

While that may be true (unless you crank your non-mv amp to get the sounds these guys are going for-- it certainly would NOT be true-- because doing that will take them through power tubes WAY more often than I will/do). We both know that isn't at the heart of the small watt amp trends. It's because there is a lot ignorance with people thinking you have to have power tube saturation to get nice gain tones, and doing that means a high watt amp will be too loud-- and it just isn't true, when you know how to choose the right amps for the job, or run gear in other than conventional ways such as re-amping and/or running load boxes (which will go through power tubes more often).

You'd be surprised how many times I've heard guys tell me the problem w/ my 180 Watt MKIII Coliseum to get the sounds they want, and when I get it at TV volumes they go into their "Oh I heard....." diatribe, which was just proven false.

Don't get me wrong, I couldn't possibly care less if guys use whatever they want and it happens to be a 1.5 Watt Sears Silvertone. I just shrug at the insistence that it's the "Only way" to get from point A to point Z

I do agree that good sounds can be found at low volumes.

In my case though I must have the amp running loud as hell to get my ideal tone as a large component of my total distortion is the speaker distortion.

I have tried every other way fathomable and always wind up with the best tones IMO by backing off on the amp gain and turning it up loud until the speakers are added the finishing touch.

In my case there is no substitute for turning up f*n loud, nothing else comes close or even can. As I also play metal the headroom afforded from 100 watts is key also.

I prefer power tube saturation in my gain tones, it has a thicker, chewier, tone. predominantly preamp based tones sound too sterile to me. to each their own...

 

[UltraGary]

Maybe the most bizarre part of this small amp wave (to me anyway....) is the fact that no one ever talks about or compares how these amps sound at bedroom levels.
I just read 2 reviews in GuitarPlayer (the Rebel & the new 65 Amps Lil Elvis)....and all they really go into is this question of whether or not 5-15 watts can handle playing with a live band. We're almost through 2 pages on this thread and there's not one comparison to....say...the Vox NightTrain to the Mesa Transatlantic (or whatever).
Who'd have thought that 5 watt amp discussions would all involve nothing but how big a venue is?....