"Ultimate effects loop" (EDIT) stories here..

[guitarman967]

the metro loop explains how to compensate for any changes in b+.. read it over good you should be able to put it back where it was no prob. it a matter of changing another resistor on b+ rail. you might need to eliminate one or add. .

I was hoping you'd chime in here Jerry. Thanks for that.

In the Metro loop instructions one of the 2 watt resistors in the PI can be changed to compensate for the voltage the loop draws but I thought that would only affect voltages in the preamp and the Phase inverter?
Maybe I'm missing something here. I appreciate your input.

 

[Mr. Willy]

Hey Kapo, you telling whole story or are you leaving some significant details out?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

If not, then please email me directly about any concerns you have with the product. I do reply to ALL emails. Always have.

My loop does NOT reinvent the wheel. It's similar to both Metro and Mojo loops in that it uses the B+ voltage to power the board, along with the LDN150 MOSFET as the active gain device. I designed it with board-mounted trim pots so that it would be easier to install (minimal drilling) yet still provide plenty of flexibility. These things are not overly complicated. Every single one has worked fine in every amp I've installed them in. I haven't sold that many yet, and this is the only instance of negative feedback (no pun intended).

Yes it is me. I did email you a last time and never heard back. Fair enough if you were busy and missed it as that can happen in life /business. You will also note that i positively credited your amp work because you do fine work where that is concerned. I just got the feeling that you did not know what might be wrong with this and didn't feel as if this was high enough of a priority given the price so you just let it sit and i didn't want to be a pain in the ass and bombard you with emails. As you haven't sold that many I assume maybe you have been used to installing them in your own builds which might account for differences in a build vs. older marshalls with varying voltages and components etc.. the problem for me remains far too much gain and high end. It was distorting or thinning the tone. At first i didn't feel it was that bad but when i actually turned the amp up i felt like i had instant Randy Rhoads Tribute post EQ sound in a box when i flicked the switch. In the end I went to a metro loop and it worked perfectly with a minor tweak to one trimpot to bring the levels up. Hey, maybe i'll have better luck when i install it in my Laney PTP. I'm willing to give it another shot. I'll never really be able to figure out why it didn't work in that 2204 though. A cvouple part swaps and a metro loop and i'm not looking back because it is the only amp i've played since i got it back up and running.

As far as leaving significant details out, I think i am being pretty fair. I had a few emails back and forth with Curt and he was never rude. That much i will say. I will go back and read my emails right now to double check. Again, I am not saying his work is terrible at all, i am only pointing out the fact that there may in fact be some design flaws with the product or some other variable to consider. Maybe that would come with more time on the market. I would consider his amps but unfortunately for me if i were asked my opinion, I would say pass on the loop. (right now anyway)

 

[rlord1974]

 

[grangeramp]

I'm sorry you had difficulty installing it and that it didn't suit your taste in tone. All four of your email replies to me were positive in nature, and you never once indicated you were unhappy with the product. I can share if you'd like. You even said "one more question and I promise I won't bug you anymore" and then sent yet another email, in which you answered your own question by pointing out the instructional step of installing an additional capacitor.

However, starting a thread on Rig talk asking for people to report their "horror stories" because you didn't like it, instead of picking up the phone and giving me a chance to resolve whatever issue you were having is a low blow, no ifs and buts about it. Your original post was an attempt to discredit me and directly affect my business by leading others into a negative discussion, i.e. bashing, about my product.

You also conveniently omitted the part about dropping your chassis and breaking a tube. As a consumer I do understand the frustration that occurs when a product does not meet your expectations, for whatever reasons. As a manufacturer there is no possible way to please everyone, hard as we try. But if more people would allow time to logically analyze their problems, knee jerk reactions would not be nearly as common as they occur on so many of these forums and user reviews. I've been a member of several for years - Metro, Weber, Amp Garage, etc. The problem is these discussions get started in haste and highly charged emotional states, and the other side usually is not involved in the discussion. Emotional responses often incite others to "empathize" and it has a way of snowballing. Here in the confined space of a browser and anonymity these discussions are funny, sarcastic, and entertaining. In the real world I decide which bills I'm going to pay this month, and what brand of bread cost less when I go grocery shopping.

Thanks for listening.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

What does dropping a chassis have to do with anything? That points to my error and I clearly indicated that i was the issue there. I swapped the tube and problem solved. I have this amp running perfectly now and it sounds amazing. Clearly the chassis slipping off the stand didn't cause permanent damage. At the end of the day I am a nice guy and i give people the chance to explain things to me and that is why i never went on the offensive in any emails. I have the email thread and the last email i sent was on the 27th of sept and I have no reply. I also did not bash your business or your reputation with your amps. I bashed the loop ! I also don't see why there can be no negative discussions about products ..isn't that what rig talk is about? rigs? I'll say it again, I like what i hear from your amps and your work is clean. No issues from me there.

I have a way around this.. is there any possibility that there was a component failure on the board itself? (or a wrong part) If there was or could be I'll gladly install another one in another amp that you send me or even better, send this one back to you to trouble shoot. If you find that it does not work you can send a new one back or change out a faulty part and send that one back. If it does work perfectly then it clearly is not for me and you can send me the loop back with a note that reads " hey @$$hole, it's you not the loop". We'll only be out shipping each way. I can then sell the loop at a very good price for someone that might want to try it. The best part is, I will edit this post and say that everything has been resolved and that it was actually my error all along.

 

[grangeramp]

Didn't see your last post until I had edited mine.

YES! There certainly is a possibility of bad/failed component. If you would like to send it back, I'll gladly exchange it. I even have a Marshall 2204 I can install it in to test.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

I agree.. i see threads snowball all the time and I def. am not going to be a person who starts a 6 page thread. This is the best way to handle it and fair for all parties. I would love to get this thing working as I want to install a loop in my other amp. It may take a little longer to get there given our slow ass postal system but it will def. get there. Threads get amended all the time and i would never leave anything out there that i felt was no longer accurate.

I also hate bills and find myself behind on everything.. my dog eats gourmet and i eat peanut butter sandwhiches

 

[Mr. Willy]

What does dropping a chassis have to do with anything? That points to my error and I clearly indicated that i was the issue there. I swapped the tube and problem solved. I have this amp running perfectly now and it sounds amazing. Clearly the chassis slipping off the stand didn't cause permanent damage. At the end of the day I am a nice guy and i give people the chance to explain things to me and that is why i never went on the offensive in any emails. I have the email thread and the last email i sent was on the 27th of sept and I have no reply. I also did not bash your business or your reputation with your amps. I bashed the loop ! I also don't see why there can be no negative discussions about products ..isn't that what rig talk is about? rigs? I'll say it again, I like what i hear from your amps and your work is clean. No issues from me there.

I have a way around this.. is there any possibility that there was a component failure on the board itself? (or a wrong part) If there was or could be I'll gladly install another one in another amp that you send me or even better, send this one back to you to trouble shoot. If you find that it does not work you can send a new one back or change out a faulty part and send that one back. If it does work perfectly then it clearly is not for me and you can send me the loop back with a note that reads " hey @$$hole, it's you not the loop". We'll only be out shipping each way. I can then sell the loop at a very good price for someone that might want to try it. The best part is, I will edit this post and say that everything has been resolved and that it was actually my error all along.

Slice and dice it anyway you want to but you said, quote "fail Granger" thereby implying that his products, services, etc were bad. You may think you didn't in your post, but I call bullshit. You also implied he "left you hanging" in emails. You didnt say anything about his responses to you in other emails. You didn't say anything about dropping the chassis which could affect a lot of things in the circuit. Whether or not it did, it's a glaring omission on your part. If you installed the loop as intended and nothing went wrong in the process and the loop didn't work, then you you have the right to say what you want. Well, you have the right anyway. You got pissed, wanted a pity party, and started this thread to get some sympathy. That's my opinion, and it's a forum, right. That's what this place is for.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

The chassis tipped on it's side and took out a preamp tube. I hardly feel this is like it dropped 6 feet to the ground. Either way, you are correct Mr. Willy. You are entitled to your opinion on a public forum as I am to mine. I personally feel the "fail" was indicative of the loop and not his whole product line but I can understand the interpretation. Either way, it will get worked out and we'll see what the issue is.

I also started this thread not for pity , but to see if i could get some info on making this work.

Anybody else feel that with their zero loss type loops? Maybe it is a per amp basis because my voltages checked out and my install was the way it was supposed to be.

I had a few offline convos with someone here who assisted me with ideas on hooking up the circuit but in the end it did not work. Again, more interested in it working then slamming Curt.

 

[se7en]

So you guys like the Metro loop? I'm trying to decide whether I need a line out, or whether the Metro loop will suffice in the BE-100.

 

[LP Freak]

So you guys like the Metro loop? I'm trying to decide whether I need a line out, or whether the Metro loop will suffice in the BE-100.

The loop in the BE works great but what are you wanting to do?

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

Personally, I think loops are great if you want to cut down on the gear you carry but wet/dry is much bigger and spacious sounding if you spread two cabs apart. So really, I think they are great as a backup plan and sound good but sonically if you want that big rig feel, wet/dry probably still beats it. BUT you also need extra equipment, decent power amp (I used a EH Magnum pedal), and the cab. You can also just get a clean solid state amp and run a split signal from a chorus or other pedal into it and make your clean signal wet. That gives a cool contrast too with dry/clean sound underneath the distorted tone.

 

[guitarman967]

So you guys like the Metro loop? I'm trying to decide whether I need a line out, or whether the Metro loop will suffice in the BE-100.

Im reserving judgement on the metro until i get the amp back sounding right. Not sure why the last step in their directions are to change a resistor on the amp board. Not easy to pull up the amp board at that point with the loop already installed. It can be done, but i would bet most people are adding the resistor to the top of the board.
I have a couple questions for metro that i posted a few days ago on their site and messaged the designer but havent heard anything.

 

[guitarman967]

Personally, I think loops are great if you want to cut down on the gear you carry but wet/dry is much bigger and spacious sounding if you spread two cabs apart. So really, I think they are great as a backup plan and sound good but sonically if you want that big rig feel, wet/dry probably still beats it. BUT you also need extra equipment, decent power amp (I used a EH Magnum pedal), and the cab. You can also just get a clean solid state amp and run a split signal from a chorus or other pedal into it and make your clean signal wet. That gives a cool contrast too with dry/clean sound underneath the distorted tone.

You can still get spacious in a plain old stereo set-up. I prefer this to a W/D or even a W/D/W rig. Hearing my dry signal at all times has never sounded better for any ambient effects that i use but thats another topic...
Having a great loop is pretty essential to what i try to achieve. When metro says zero loss im assuming this is in reference to the tone bypassed vs loop on. Im not yet sure of the tonal artifacts the loop may impart on the amp itself...yet.

 

[Rogue]

You can still get spacious in a plain old stereo set-up. I prefer this to a W/D or even a W/D/W rig. Hearing my dry signal at all times has never sounded better for any ambient effects that i use but thats another topic...
Having a great loop is pretty essential to what i try to achieve. When metro says zero loss im assuming this is in reference to the tone bypassed vs loop on. Im not yet sure of the tonal artifacts the loop may impart on the amp itself...yet.

I can't speak for a zero lose in a 2203 or similar, but a zero lose loop in a superlead doesn't sound all that great. Or really, perhaps any NMV amp that cranking the power section is where the goods are....and at least with delays.

I'm perfectly fine with my install being wrong or my loop board faulty, but that is my experience. The guy whole designed it helped via email, but said he didn't see anything obvious. As Alan from Carol Ann amps told me, "putting a loop in a plexi is a bit like fitting a circle in a square". They just wasn't designed with that in mind.

 

[legend71]

This thread was very amusing - dude tried to call out another dude and instead he flipped the script. Nice!!

 

[se7en]

So you guys like the Metro loop? I'm trying to decide whether I need a line out, or whether the Metro loop will suffice in the BE-100.

The loop in the BE works great but what are you wanting to do?

Delays and modulation from Strymon Timeline and Mobius. Possibly a solo boost as well.

 

[LP Freak]

So you guys like the Metro loop? I'm trying to decide whether I need a line out, or whether the Metro loop will suffice in the BE-100.

The loop in the BE works great but what are you wanting to do?

Delays and modulation from Strymon Timeline and Mobius. Possibly a solo boost as well.

I think they all work great in the loop.

 

[Kapo_Polenton]

This thread was very amusing - dude tried to call out another dude and instead he flipped the script. Nice!!

Like a good sporting event.. tough guys get out on the ice and duke it out but they respect each other at the end of the day. Maybe there was a faulty component on the board? Maybe he missed my last email as it got buried? Maybe the tipped chassis caused something to spark on the board? Maybe i just don't like the tone of it? All will soon be revealed. Stay tuned for more excitement!