Van Halen Panama tone

Here's my Ed spec 68 Metro that I built with all NOS parts. -5 cents detune via a Boss PS5 and a flat mids boost from a vintage MXR 6 band EQ(old blue model (like Dimes/EVH), Seymour Duncan 78 model PAF, Delay from an old EM5 echomachine, no W/D/W here... just two cabs reamped by a stock 1972 Marshall SL.



Here's the same amp and setup without the detune so you can hear what the detune brings to the table.
 
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Sounds great, especially for not even being wdw. It's really hard to get that sound without it. Nice!
 
RedPlated said:
Sounds great, especially for not even being wdw. It's really hard to get that sound without it. Nice!
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Thanks! If I remember correctly fairly sure it was variaced down then biased hot completely loaded down into a fully resisitve load, tapped the line level with a Suhr Iso Line out to the front end of the 1972 SL into the low level bright jack with a radical EQ on the reamp amp. That was supposed to be the 78 tour setup just substitute your reamp power amp of choice, Fender band masters, Marshall 100 watt head, Musicmans, I've even seen a VOX ac30 on the stage in late 1977 in pics.

I've since went the whole W/D/W thing with a Matrix GT1000FX , boss DD500 with two Boss PS-5's for the +- detunes, the W/D/W just makes the tone massive and alot of fun the play but I would like to reamp with a 67-69 fender bandmaster just for fun, I tried a Bassman once and it was OK I think the bandmaster is the secret sauce to VH1. Your 69 sounds great, the iron in 68-70 is the best they ever made IMHO. Even an old Boss GE7 set right sound similar to the old MXR plus you can turn it off and on. I have a looper pedal where I can bypass the old MXR in the above clips.

Here's my 1969 Metro, everything was spec'd out NOS just like 1969 SB down to the Iskra resistors, NOS Mica caps, MOS mustards, then I converted it to a SL, this amp really rivaled my 68 build, it sounded great with no variacing at all and the tube were EH6ca7, Tunsol V1, Chinese 8th genration V2, Sylvania V3. The 68 amp in the above clips were Sylvania 6ca7's and Sylvania 12ax7 in V1, V2,V3. In these clips the 69 is dry into a single 1982B cab with 55hz Celestions 12h-30 heritage resissues.

 
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harddriver said:
I've since went the whole W/D/W thing with a Matrix GT1000FX , boss DD500 with two Boss PS-5's for the +- detunes, the W/D/W just makes the tone massive and alot of fun the play but I would like to reamp with a 67-69 fender bandmaster just for fun, I tried a Bassman once and it was OK I think the bandmaster is the secret sauce to VH1. Your 69 sounds great, the iron in 68-70 is the best they ever made IMHO. Even an old Boss GE7 set right sound similar to the old MXR plus you can turn it off and on. I have a looper pedal where I can bypass the old MXR in the above clips.
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I love the WDW sound. I have a Matrix as well with a Mark L mixer and a TC G major 2. The TC actually does a killer detune and it can be had dirt cheap. Sounds massive. I use whatever 4x12 I have in the middle at the time, with two Friedman 1x12's on each side, loaded with Alnico Creams.
 
On another note, if you read about the way they recorded 1984, it's amazing that it got done at all. It was the first album where it didn't really matter when they did what or got it finished by. Since it was at 5150, there were no deadlines, like at Sunset Sound, where there were always other bands booked on the next day. Ed and Donn were totally at odds with Dave and Ted. I don't think all of those guys were ever in there at the same time. IIRC, in Ted's book, he said Donn locked everyone out and threatened to burn the tapes. Ted had one master that WB was demanding, but Ed was ignoring deadlines and changed stuff after Ted got that tape. Just a crazy, sort of comedy of errors that turned into a fantastic album that catapulted those guys into the stratosphere. But it easily could have ended so badly. And Donn Landee is the real genius behind those first six albums. I don't know what happened to him for the next two, but man, he is an unsung hero.
 
Starting to really hear that treble crashing sound that Dave and Pete had talked about in the deep dive vid. My bugera 1960 crashes really bad with everything on 10 depending on the pickups used. The treble pot has to be dialed back a bit. But the sound it makes is part of "that sound". The other must have to my ears is the variac. Gives it the grind.
 
He was probably getting tired of that grating top end. There, I said it..
It was more balanced in 1984.. It fit the mix better and the guitar wasn't competing with the Cymbals..
It was ultra smooth and by the time FUCK came around..
Even the Man that started it all, needed to try new things..
 
So should the detune pedal be early in the signal chain? Or can it be in the loop?

How about if I wanted to do a WDW rig? I’ve run out of my line out into a stereo delay and into my Mosvalve power amp. Would I go from the line out into a stereo detune pedal ( or two mono pedals) and then into the delay? So I guess I’m mainly wondering if the detune effect sounds “right” after the distortion?
 
Too really nail teh Panams tonez u need: To be on stage with a lead singer swinging back and on a wire..a bass player that plays a Jack Daniels bass..a drummer that just happens to be your brother..and most importantly, you the guitar player, need to be wearing a red bandana..for extra tonez playing piano while blowing smoke rings is a good idea..

The lead singer doing a bit of pole dancing and riding a motorcycle wouldn't hurt either..

 
Harddriver - your clips sound incredible.

I was having a helluva time copping Ed’s ‘chorus’ sound - and didn’t bond at all with the blue EVH Chorus pedal that Pete Thorn made sound so damned good in his demo video. I ran into a youtube vid of a guy getting really close with a Mooer Pitch Box (at well under $100 used the Verb or the Bay). Though not quite the effect you would get with a big W/D/W setup, that cheap little Mooer got me closer to the EVH chorus sound than any/every other pedal I had tried. -1 Detune is noticeable but pretty subtle, really gets that 1984 Panama thang. -2 is a bit more pronounced without being too much and nails the Van Hagar era tones. On a budget, pressed for space, don’t want the hassle of W/D/W - I highly recommend the Mooer.

http://www.mooeraudio.com/product/Pitch-Box--143.html
 
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PDC said:
Harddriver - your clips sound incredible.

I was having a helluva time copping Ed’s ‘chorus’ sound - and didn’t bond at all with the blue EVH Chorus pedal that Pete Thorn made sound so damned good in his demo video. I ran into a youtube vid of a guy getting really close with a Mooer Pitch Box (at well under $100 used the Verb or the Bay). Though not quite the effect you would get with a big W/D/W setup, that cheap little Mooer got me closer to the EVH chorus sound than any/every other pedal I had tried. -1 Detune is noticeable but pretty subtle, really gets that 1984 Panama thang. -2 is a bit more pronounced without being too much and nails the Van Hagar era tones. On a budget, pressed for space, don’t want the hassle of W/D/W - I highly recommend the Mooer.
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There was no Mooer baack when I starting using the BOss PS-5's I got Kent Carlevi's setting off of You-tube and have been pretty satisfied with its detunes. I would love to pick up an eventide picthfactor to get the exact -.9999cents for FW 1984 tones and +-9 cents for Balance type detune because the Boss only does -5cents at a time, but it's close enough for me. The new Eventide micropitch pedal might be interesting though, but i need stereo two channels like the pithcfactor.

I think Jayy used to be here on RT has an actual Eventide 910 and he has some killer detune clips through a bunch of amps



I've heard great things about the Mooer as well.
 
bubbastain said:
So should the detune pedal be early in the signal chain? Or can it be in the loop?

How about if I wanted to do a WDW rig? I’ve run out of my line out into a stereo delay and into my Mosvalve power amp. Would I go from the line out into a stereo detune pedal ( or two mono pedals) and then into the delay? So I guess I’m mainly wondering if the detune effect sounds “right” after the distortion?
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I would say any detune effects would sound better after then entire Pre and power amp of the amplifier like tapping the line out signal at the speaker jacks of the amp as the Suhr Iso line out does. You probably would get pretty acceptable results in the loop as well but in my experience I think it sounds best after the slaved amplifier and before the power amp ala Bob Bradshaws W/D setup or W/D/W setup.
 
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