What has the biggest impact on tone?

[HerbieBoogie]

The amp!!!
then you
the the axe


please get rid of your hot plate

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMHS7PR5xY0


godspeed friend

 

[Greazygeo]

Hi guys,

I've been playing for about a year and a half now, and I'm thinking about investing in some new gear.

I'm currently playing an Ibanez GRX20 with EMG81 pickups (that I got used for a great price), through a Mesa Boogie 50W RectoVerb head into a Mesa 2x12 cabinet with V30s. The amp and cab are actually my uncle's.

I don't have any effects, but there is a THD HotPlate between the amp and cab.

Anyway, I love the amp. It has crisp clean sounds that are crystal clear, gritty crunch, and sounds menacing with the drive and master turned up. Thing is, there's just something about the overall tone that is, well, lacking.

Everything sounds kinda sterile, and shrill actually. There's no warmth, no character... if that makes any sense. Like when you hear a whaling lead note and it sorta rolls over into that warm harmonic type sound, that's down right beautiful. My notes, on the other hand, just fade away with their bland, uninteresting dullness. I've tweaked the amp and guitar settings endlessly, there's just no "sweetness" in there. Something has to change.

So, here's the thing. I don't know what I should consider changing.

Like on the guitar for instance. It's basswood with a rosewood fretboard and a maple neck (i think it's maple). I've seen a lot of different types of wood used, but does that really influence the tone of an electric guitar? I mean, considering all the electronics processing going on, does the wood really play much of a role?

And shape, does the shape of an electric guitar or its construction matter at all?

And then, the pick ups. I'm sure pick ups have a lot to do with guitar tone. But EMGs are widely used and I've seen quite a few youtube videos where EMGs sound pretty sweet.

I know the amp has a lot to do with tone. This one is about 7 years old. My uncle kept it in great shape, and I know he retubed it just before binging it over.


So, I guess my question is, what has the greatest impact on guitar tone? How would we rank various aspects based on how much they affect tone?

Is wood type more impactful than pick ups? Are pick ups more impactful than the amp? Is the speaker cabinet impactful at all? What about strings, how much difference do those make? I wish I could run a bunch of different guitars through my amp and listen to the differences. Maybe some day guitar center will have a "try before you buy" event...


Jo

If you've been playing only a year and a half, I'd get off the boards/ internet find a good teacher take some lessons and play your guitar. Worrying about the tone or lack of tone is the last thing I'd be concerned with.

Make sure your guitar is setup with fresh strings and properly intonated, set your amp clean and practice.

It all starts with the player.

 

[moltenmetalburn]

What has the biggest impact on tone?

How much alcohol the audience has ingested!

 

[Digital Jams]

Hi guys,

I've been playing for about a year and a half now, and I'm thinking about investing in some new gear.

I'm currently playing an Ibanez GRX20 with EMG81 pickups (that I got used for a great price), through a Mesa Boogie 50W RectoVerb head into a Mesa 2x12 cabinet with V30s. The amp and cab are actually my uncle's.

I don't have any effects, but there is a THD HotPlate between the amp and cab.

Anyway, I love the amp. It has crisp clean sounds that are crystal clear, gritty crunch, and sounds menacing with the drive and master turned up. Thing is, there's just something about the overall tone that is, well, lacking.

Everything sounds kinda sterile, and shrill actually. There's no warmth, no character... if that makes any sense. Like when you hear a whaling lead note and it sorta rolls over into that warm harmonic type sound, that's down right beautiful. My notes, on the other hand, just fade away with their bland, uninteresting dullness. I've tweaked the amp and guitar settings endlessly, there's just no "sweetness" in there. Something has to change.

So, here's the thing. I don't know what I should consider changing.

Like on the guitar for instance. It's basswood with a rosewood fretboard and a maple neck (i think it's maple). I've seen a lot of different types of wood used, but does that really influence the tone of an electric guitar? I mean, considering all the electronics processing going on, does the wood really play much of a role?

And shape, does the shape of an electric guitar or its construction matter at all?

And then, the pick ups. I'm sure pick ups have a lot to do with guitar tone. But EMGs are widely used and I've seen quite a few youtube videos where EMGs sound pretty sweet.

I know the amp has a lot to do with tone. This one is about 7 years old. My uncle kept it in great shape, and I know he retubed it just before binging it over.


So, I guess my question is, what has the greatest impact on guitar tone? How would we rank various aspects based on how much they affect tone?

Is wood type more impactful than pick ups? Are pick ups more impactful than the amp? Is the speaker cabinet impactful at all? What about strings, how much difference do those make? I wish I could run a bunch of different guitars through my amp and listen to the differences. Maybe some day guitar center will have a "try before you buy" event...


Jo

If you've been playing only a year and a half, I'd get off the boards/ internet find a good teacher take some lessons and play your guitar. Worrying about the tone or lack of tone is the last thing I'd be concerned with.

Make sure your guitar is setup with fresh strings and properly intonated, set your amp clean and practice.

It all starts with the player.

You know George, I kind of agree with getting off the boards BUT I will admit that I would not be where I am without meeting some key players over the years. Meeting guys like Ralph, Ed, Ant, and yourself has taught me where I need to go and what to do to become a better player. I did not have to play that crazy game of buying 20-30 amps to find something, I would just listen to certain guys that I could depend on and I was done. Plus hanging with some of the guys really makes you want to hit the shed to become a better player.

But I do agree that boards can also point you in the wrong direction and waste time. I have other things to worry about than achiving awesome forum tone.

 

[Greazygeo]

You know George, I kind of agree with getting off the boards BUT I will admit that I would not be where I am without meeting some key players over the years. Meeting guys like Ralph, Ed, Ant, and yourself has taught me where I need to go and what to do to become a better player. I did not have to play that crazy game of buying 20-30 amps to find something, I would just listen to certain guys that I could depend on and I was done. Plus hanging with some of the guys really makes you want to hit the shed to become a better player.

But I do agree that boards can also point you in the wrong direction and waste time. I have other things to worry about than achiving awesome forum tone.

I'd venture a guess you had been playing more than a year and a half ? Look at where this thread has gone in three pages.

When I was at that period of time in my playing I had just moved up from my little practice amp /muff fuzz and hondo II LP. Sure it was better, but what did I know. I was still trying to learn Crazy Train The OP already has a rig way better than that and is complaining about the tone?? Next thing he'll be on a search of the magical 12ax7, power cable, ridiculous price no name pickups, whatever tenon construction LP etc etc.....

 

[stratotone]

Heh, at a year and a half I was playing through a silverface princeton reverb and plugging the speaker cable into the 'external' jack so it would cut volume and fuzz out a little. I didn't start getting any really good gear (for my style, a princeton reverb is an excellent amp, just not for hard rock!) until I had been playing well over 10 years.

Pete

 

[Zachman]

After some thought on the matter, I think the biggest impact on perceived tone is, the acoustic space that you're playing in, and proximity to the source.

 

[Rob Tahan]

While everyone always says tone is in your fingers i have heard many good players play through crap gear and still sound like crap Even though i can tell they are good players they are still limited because of their tone. Thats like being able to sing any note but having a terrible weak sounding voice. To me personally i really think the biggest impact on tone is:
1) The AMP ...it truly ( should ) allow who you create the sound your fingers and ears want to hear. This is why you must pick the right amp for you. Listen to Andy timmons and someone try to tell me that he can get the same beautiful tone and articulation through some crap amp. While he can still play it and probably make it sound ok.. it wouldnt be the same as if he played through his gear that works best for him.
.
.
2) The fingers
3) The speakers
4) The guitar/action/pickups

 

[bds9487]

While everyone always says tone is in your fingers i have heard many good players play through crap gear and still sound like crap Even though i can tell they are good players they are still limited because of their tone. Thats like being able to sing any note but having a terrible weak sounding voice. To me personally i really think the biggest impact on tone is:
1) The AMP ...it truly ( should ) allow who you create the sound your fingers and ears want to hear. This is why you must pick the right amp for you. Listen to Andy timmons and someone try to tell me that he can get the same beautiful tone and articulation through some crap amp. While he can still play it and probably make it sound ok.. it wouldnt be the same as if he played through his gear that works best for him.
.
.
2) The fingers
3) The speakers
4) The guitar/action/pickups

+1. It is possible to have amazing ability and technique and shit tone.

 

[amiller]

While everyone always says tone is in your fingers i have heard many good players play through crap gear and still sound like crap Even though i can tell they are good players they are still limited because of their tone...

Actually, you reminded me of this really good guitar player in my neck of the woods. He played a Strat into a Marshall into a 2X12 cab. He would put the cab on the floor and then stand right up against it with his back toward the speakers. The sound would just blow right by his feet. He always complained about not being able to hear himself so he would crank the treble and volume up so much it would make your ears bleed. It might have sounded good to him (where he was standing) but out in front, in the audience, it sounded like absolute ASS! The treble and volume would shave the top of your head off...thin and ice picks.

Great player...suck ass tone!

 

[Gainfreak]

While everyone always says tone is in your fingers i have heard many good players play through crap gear and still sound like crap Even though i can tell they are good players they are still limited because of their tone. Thats like being able to sing any note but having a terrible weak sounding voice. To me personally i really think the biggest impact on tone is:
1) The AMP ...it truly ( should ) allow who you create the sound your fingers and ears want to hear. This is why you must pick the right amp for you. Listen to Andy timmons and someone try to tell me that he can get the same beautiful tone and articulation through some crap amp. While he can still play it and probably make it sound ok.. it wouldnt be the same as if he played through his gear that works best for him.
.
.
2) The fingers
3) The speakers
4) The guitar/action/pickups

Andy Timmons is a great referance because anyone who has heard his first album will more then likely tell you that his tone was complete shit. Timmons first album tone was Quite possibly one of the worst recorded tones that ive heard and I'll also throw in most if not all of the Shrapnel artists from back in the day in the bad tone department LMAO. Timmons sorted his tone out and now people associate him with having a great tone but it wasn't alway true.

it is my opinion that anyone who tell's you that tone is 100% in the fingers or 100% in anything is either tone deaf or a moron

 

[Zachman]

While everyone always says tone is in your fingers i have heard many good players play through crap gear and still sound like crap Even though i can tell they are good players they are still limited because of their tone. Thats like being able to sing any note but having a terrible weak sounding voice. To me personally i really think the biggest impact on tone is:
1) The AMP ...it truly ( should ) allow who you create the sound your fingers and ears want to hear. This is why you must pick the right amp for you. Listen to Andy timmons and someone try to tell me that he can get the same beautiful tone and articulation through some crap amp. While he can still play it and probably make it sound ok.. it wouldnt be the same as if he played through his gear that works best for him.
.
.
2) The fingers
3) The speakers
4) The guitar/action/pickups

Andy Timmons is a great referance because anyone who has heard his first album will more then likely tell you that his tone was complete shit. Timmons first album tone was Quite possibly one of the worst recorded tones that ive heard and I'll also throw in most if not all of the Shrapnel artists from back in the day in the bad tone department LMAO. Timmons sorted his tone out and now people associate him with having a great tone but it wasn't alway true.

it is my opinion that anyone who tell's you that tone is 100% in the fingers or 100% in anything is either tone deaf or a moron

Absolutely spot on brilliant

 

[Atropos_Project]

Amps (and how they're dialed in) have, by far, the largest impact on tone.

Second is the room you're playing in.

Then it's probably a toss up between speakers, pickups, and technique. Guitar composition follows that. Then tubes, strings, picks, and every other variable you can think of

Lots of folks have trouble distinguishing good "playing" from good tone, things that tend to go hand in hand due to the player knowing how to tweak his gear to get satisfactory results. And due to that, we tend to equate that players skill with the tone he's getting. On the contrary, a poor player will typically sound bad even through a good rig, in part because they aren't dialing the amp in too well to begin with (sit in a GC on a Saturday for a while, you'll invariably run across an example of this)

Simply put, you can test a rig's tone out using sustained single notes, and open chords, thus by and large taking the "fingers / technique" aspect out of the picture.

 

[Meathead]

How the guitar player plays (mutes, palms, picks, finnesse, digs in, backs off, uses the guitar's volume knob, etc...) for me is a big part of the tone, the part I like listening to, how the amp reacts with the player.
I know the amp/speaker/guitar has a lot to do with it of course, but some guys I will just never dig their tone due to the way they play.
Call it hand tone or whatever, but some people have got it and it sounds great!

 

[amiller]

Another good example of great player shitty tone is Steve Morse. His early Dixie Dregs stuff sounds horrible. I can barely listen to "Free Fall." Steve even makes fun and laughs about how bad that recording is. His tone has gradually improved over the years and now is listenable.

 

[Rob Tahan]

Another good example of great player shitty tone is Steve Morse. His early Dixie Dregs stuff sounds horrible. I can barely listen to "Free Fall." Steve even makes fun and laughs about how bad that recording is. His tone has gradually improved over the years and now is listenable.

..And Rusty Cooley.. yes i said it... sorry

 

[Rob Tahan]

While everyone always says tone is in your fingers i have heard many good players play through crap gear and still sound like crap Even though i can tell they are good players they are still limited because of their tone. Thats like being able to sing any note but having a terrible weak sounding voice. To me personally i really think the biggest impact on tone is:
1) The AMP ...it truly ( should ) allow who you create the sound your fingers and ears want to hear. This is why you must pick the right amp for you. Listen to Andy timmons and someone try to tell me that he can get the same beautiful tone and articulation through some crap amp. While he can still play it and probably make it sound ok.. it wouldnt be the same as if he played through his gear that works best for him.
.
.
2) The fingers
3) The speakers
4) The guitar/action/pickups

Andy Timmons is a great referance because anyone who has heard his first album will more then likely tell you that his tone was complete shit. Timmons first album tone was Quite possibly one of the worst recorded tones that ive heard and I'll also throw in most if not all of the Shrapnel artists from back in the day in the bad tone department LMAO. Timmons sorted his tone out and now people associate him with having a great tone but it wasn't alway true.

it is my opinion that anyone who tell's you that tone is 100% in the fingers or 100% in anything is either tone deaf or a moron

Bingo!
And exactly why i used this reference. The only song that i actually kind of like his tone on was "a night to remember" and the first song. Other than that...

 

[amiller]

I would like to strongly make the point that a great rig will NOT make for a great player.

Case in point....take me!

I think I've got pretty good tone but SUCK at playing!

 

[Meathead]

Another good example of great player shitty tone is Steve Morse. His early Dixie Dregs stuff sounds horrible. I can barely listen to "Free Fall." Steve even makes fun and laughs about how bad that recording is. His tone has gradually improved over the years and now is listenable.

..And Rusty Cooley.. yes i said it... sorry

How about Kirk Hammett. Sterile feel in his playing, any amp he plays through sounds sterile. You can't eq in what is missing from the player.
Many people on You Tube putting up amp demos of amps that I know can sound good, but their playing makes the amp sound lifeless.

I can't separate the player from the tone and say that tone is just the gear, can't be done.

 

[peaveyT60]

your gear and how you dial it in is 100% of your tone.