Why does Electronic Gear hold better value than tube amps?

[zuel69]

O.k. good post dude, right on. I was in your boat and will be again I'm sure..I picked up a new Axe FX II with a new Fryette 2/50/2 for the exact reasons you stated. I spent some time dialing it in and learning the rig. It did sound great and there is an over whelming amount of options, but at the end of the day when I plugged a bb preamp into a Suhr badger 30 I sold it all.

Then last year I picked up the Kemper rack and a new QSC12..took it to a jam session and sold it the next day...I'm sure it would have sounded a million times better with a tube power amp, but that was enough for me. Watch out for the zealots!

You've gotta be kidding me, micro processors and surface mount part's aren't in any of my amps..so the answer is YES there is a huge difference. Your not comparing apples to apples when your talking about component types between a modeler and a good old fashion tube amp...

Oh you mean just like the Chinese parts and tubes inside tube amps? The Axe and Kemper use the same high quality parts that most computer manufactures use these days. But yes I will give you that it is a fake tube sounding distortion that 90% of people could not tell the difference. I tend to find where the Axe and Kemper still fall short are on the cab sims which is why if I ever go digital I would do a Axe into a power amp into a 4X12

Do you think there is a difference between resisters and caps in a computer compared to an amp? I can tell you no, different values yes and sometimes different types yes as well. Of course a computer/Axe will not need can caps for filtering nor will they need some high power grid resisters, but most of the rest of the components are the same.

Microprocessors I will give you, surface mount parts I cant tell you if any of the cheaper amps use them, but I play boogies or other high end amps so they do not. But to play devils advocate if tube amp companies could get away with surface mount I bet they would, just too much voltage/current in order to power those big tubes.

Still I really do not see the point of how you get the tone as long as you get the tone, the whole parts thing came up because he was complaining about Chinese parts in Axe which most amp companies now use.

Neither is better, they both get the same job done using different methods, depending on your needs will determine which way you go. As to feel of a tube amp, both Axe and Kemper are there, where I feel they are lacking is on cab sims which can be corrected by using a power amp and cab instead of going direct.

Will digital be the wave of the future, that is really going to depend on the current generation and if they embrace it or not, but personally I feel it will embraced, I am hoping not in my lifetime as I prefer the simplicity of plugging into a tube amp, turning a few knobs and I am happy, I am not really a tweaker.

 

[ghosty999]

What would you rather have...

A fake rolex
Or a real rolex?

They both look the same... but there is just something not right with fake, it will never have that feel and it will always have it's flaws.

Fake amp sounds are for fake people.

If you can't afford 20 boutique tube amps then pick one you love that you will use live, save up and buy it. Then for jamming 100 amps in 30 seconds at home use a VST or micro cube.

Honestly the high end stuff like Axe FX II and Kemper sound just as good as the real stuff and feel the same. Will they sound exactly like your beloved amp, probably not, but neither will another amp of the same make and model.

In the same way in buying a really high end fake Rolex, it will feel, look and work exactly the same. But behind it all you know there isn't a beautiful Swiss movement, just crappy Chinese copied parts. Same with an amp, there is isn't glowing lovely tubes housed in a timeless looking amp head, there is just a rack unit with flashing lights all over it. Yeah it does the same, yeah it's cheaper, yeah it's almost identical... but it will never be a Rolex, it will always be a copy/replica/emulation.

Just my subjective theory

Oh you mean just like the Chinese parts and tubes inside tube amps? The Axe and Kemper use the same high quality parts that most amp manufactures use these days minus the tubes. But yes I will give you that it is a fake tube sounding distortion that 90% of people could not tell the difference. I tend to find where the Axe and Kemper still fall short are on the cab sims which is why if I ever go digital I would do a Axe into a power amp into a 4X12

Hence why I'd never buy a Chinese built tube amp. In short would you rather go see a gig with this:

Tube amp stage:

or

AxeFX rack stage:

 

[siggy14]

What would you rather have...

A fake rolex
Or a real rolex?

They both look the same... but there is just something not right with fake, it will never have that feel and it will always have it's flaws.

Fake amp sounds are for fake people.

If you can't afford 20 boutique tube amps then pick one you love that you will use live, save up and buy it. Then for jamming 100 amps in 30 seconds at home use a VST or micro cube.

Honestly the high end stuff like Axe FX II and Kemper sound just as good as the real stuff and feel the same. Will they sound exactly like your beloved amp, probably not, but neither will another amp of the same make and model.

In the same way in buying a really high end fake Rolex, it will feel, look and work exactly the same. But behind it all you know there isn't a beautiful Swiss movement, just crappy Chinese copied parts. Same with an amp, there is isn't glowing lovely tubes housed in a timeless looking amp head, there is just a rack unit with flashing lights all over it. Yeah it does the same, yeah it's cheaper, yeah it's almost identical... but it will never be a Rolex, it will always be a copy/replica/emulation.

Just my subjective theory

Oh you mean just like the Chinese parts and tubes inside tube amps? The Axe and Kemper use the same high quality parts that most amp manufactures use these days minus the tubes. But yes I will give you that it is a fake tube sounding distortion that 90% of people could not tell the difference. I tend to find where the Axe and Kemper still fall short are on the cab sims which is why if I ever go digital I would do a Axe into a power amp into a 4X12

Hence why I'd never buy a Chinese built tube amp. In short would you rather go see a gig with this:

Tube amp stage:

or

AxeFX rack stage:

I am with you on that, I would rather see a stage full of Marshalls or Mesas, I am just saying digital has its place, just not in my rack. I already have a Eleven Rack and Line 6 HD500 and I just never want to sit down and put time into tweaking tone on those units and they are not even close to the amount of settings a Axe has. Yes I could grab tones from the many libraries out there or do basic tones, but as of now I just like plugging in with the tone I have in my EVH or Mesa or Marshall, each is set up for different styles of music.

But for some people Digital is what works best for them and you can get great tones out of it that sounds just as good as any tube amp and I feel in 20 years there will be more Axe (or some other company) Users then tube users as tubes will be too expensive and you can get the same sound from a single unit.

 

[ejecta]

Because digital is the future of amps.......you'll always have purists like with analog recording etc...but it's just a matter of time.

There will be at least 80% of young generation guitarists who will have zero experience with tube amps.

You already can't tell the difference on properly done recordings, and the live experience for guitarists will soon enough be equal or better...

The technology is just way too versatile, portable & great sounding to be ignored. There will be iphone/ipad apps that will sound & feel as good as any tube amp there is!

Mark my words people.......I love & own some top tier tube amps, but the writing is on the wall bitches!

Oh by the way......I recently updated to the Axe2XL & got $2099 for my Axe2 that I bought new in 2011 for full price at $2199......try getting that much for your brand new tube amp after a few years!

Thanks for the input Scott.

 

[Elric]

I've gone AxeFx from amps (I only have two amps and one tube pre left). It was a good decision for me. I expect that if technology takes a quantum leap the price will take a major hit but since for me, this is a preamp, I don't really anticipate needing to upgrade to any future unit unless I just decided to as a luxury purchase (say I get a bonus at work, etc).

My current rig is much more powerful than any other rig I have used before: I can get tones from it I could never get from previous rigs, so it is actually a complete win-win. I am fully comfortable with EQs, IRs and all the rest of it though. My approach to rig building has always been pretty technical and I've always wanted multiple base tones with very high quality fundamental sounds, which I get from the AF2 amp models. I tend to think of them on their own or as broad classes (like say modded marshall), though. They sound as distinctive as separate amps to me and I can configure them at will without any of the hassles (or cost) of physical hardware.

I can see why some people hate digital boxes and their apparent complexity (I would argue that they are simpler for complex rigs). I can understand the "sexiness" of traditional analog gear (aesthetics, quirks, physical design variation, variance of performance from specimen to specimen, etc).

So, I think there will always be room for both types of tools.

 

[ejecta]

I don't always play electric guitar with dynamically flat tone and uber compressed feel but when I do I go.....

 

[Jono434]

Simulation vs real. They both have their merits in the right application, but one shouldn't confuse the two.

 

[anomaly]

In 10 years people will have a hard time giving away those axe fx things. Technology always eventually becomes obsolete, real amplifiers do not, and always retain a good resale value over the years... as long as the amp itself is of good quality.

 

[BYTOR]

In 10 years people will have a hard time giving away those axe fx things. Technology always eventually becomes obsolete, real amplifiers do not, and always retain a good resale value over the years... as long as the amp itself is of good quality.

LOL......OK Grandpa I'll get off your lawn

Whatever the name of the top digital amp/effects devices are in 10 years is anyones guess, but there is zero doubt from anyone that has any sense, that digital amp units will continue to be a major force in the guitar recording/touring world.......way more than they are today, & today they are already a pretty big deal!

The names may change but the technology will dominate the industry.........Friedman chose the AxeFx BE100 model over the real deal when Pete Thorn did that sound test earlier this year. Even PODs have fooled tons of people on recordings.

So with it being already a toss up on recordings, live 99% of the audience couldn't give a fuck, & the technology saves bands tons of $ & gives them consistent sound night after night........then what's really left to be proven?

 

[zuel69]

In 10 years people will have a hard time giving away those axe fx things. Technology always eventually becomes obsolete, real amplifiers do not, and always retain a good resale value over the years... as long as the amp itself is of good quality.