Monkey Man
Super Moderator
Ah but what's being constructed or indeed is pre-existing, the consciousness, cannot be seen, weighed, measured / quantified and so on.I have to beg to differ on that. Consciousness is constructed in our brains, and our brains have mass (although you might argue some of these guys brains have very little mass)
You're talking about what might create consciousness and I'm talking about the consciousness itself.
It's an age-old conundrum brother. An impasse.
CrazyNutz
Well-known member
Nah, I'm talking about the consciousness itself.
Here are neurons connecting under microscope
This happens with every experience you have, molding, and shaping your consciousness. It's happening right now as you read this.
Stripped Rights
Well-known member
It was indeed. It didn't get much traction but this one makes up for it.
I appreciate that very much bro!
Thank you.
Monkey Man
Super Moderator
Well have to agree to disagree Brother CentristNutz.
You're looking at neurons firing and calling it consciousness. I see an attendant physical process but not the consciousness itself.
Exactly the same thing could be said about life IMHO:
You can measure / photograph / analyse all you like, but can you see the spirit or experience of life? No, only the associated clues.
You can make a robot as accurately as you like, but will you actually create life?
It's that impasse I mentioned...
CrazyNutz
Well-known member
Not firing, connecting. The connections (or how they are connected) is your consciousness.
This happens rapidly to babies, and slows after 2years. Then you have connections that get made later in life to store memories, and learn new things. But much of the learning is at a young age.
Study neural networks, even if its machine neural networks, it's the same concept. We learned how to achieve AI by studying the brain.
We will achieve consciousness in machines using the same concepts, if we haven't already.
Stripped Rights
Well-known member
And IIRC when you stop performing certain tasks regularly (like playing guitar) those pathways will disappear or change because they're not considered important anymore.
CrazyNutz
Well-known member
Exactly, and spending too much time in this sub forum short circuits the fuck out of them
Monkey Man
Super Moderator
Oh I know exactly where you're coming from brother.
As I said, we'll have to agree to disagree. No biggie.
Man does not walk on his legs (neurons firing / the physical evidence), but on his will. Love, passion, emotions, sense of humour...
Sounds like good design to me.
Updating the physical to best accommodate the spirit's intent.
Monkey Man
Super Moderator
Now that is funny.Exactly, and spending too much time in this sub forum short circuits the fuck out of them
CrazyNutz
Well-known member
Stripped Rights
Well-known member
Best keep up the sexercise then!
Monkey Man
Super Moderator
Think about what I said:
New pathways' being formed isn't random. If it were, our thoughts would be too.
As I suggested, I believe the spirit / consciousness leads and the body follows / accommodates.
New pathways' being formed isn't random. If it were, our thoughts would be too.
As I suggested, I believe the spirit / consciousness leads and the body follows / accommodates.
CrazyNutz
Well-known member
Right, it's not random. The pathways form as you're learning a new skill for example. As you practice said skill over, and over the pathways become more refined.
Monkey Man
Super Moderator
I knew you'd say this and was tempted to cover it too at the time.
The spirit / consciousness is the instigator. You direct your life and actions; the pathways facilitate but don't instigate.
This is why I have a problem with how some (most?) psychologists view psychological disorders. From my POV they're putting the cart before the horse by "blaming the brain". Essentially IMHO, we're not slaves to the pathways we've created; we're the creators.
Monkey Man
Super Moderator
May I just say brother that this is a good conversation to have and see in OTC... IMHO. 
Arch Stanton
Dollar Store Satriani
Your conscious thoughts program your subconscious.
Your subconscious then carries out this programming, without any input or even awareness of your conscious mind.
Monkey Man
Super Moderator
Yes, but both are divisions / categories of the overarching life-force / spirit / awareness / consciousness / essence I'm talking about - the real you.
This cannot be quantified, measured, weighed, photographed etc. but as I said, IMHO it's the driver of everything in your life including the manner in which you experience events.
This cannot be quantified, measured, weighed, photographed etc. but as I said, IMHO it's the driver of everything in your life including the manner in which you experience events.
Arch Stanton
Dollar Store Satriani
Monkey Man
Super Moderator
To be fair, I read a book written, I think back in the '50s or '60s, that famously documented their visiting the bones of lost family members in what were called "elephant graveyards".
It should probably also be put out here as a general principle for the thread, seeing as it's been alluded to, that brain size doesn't necessarily determine intelligence levels.
On a "micro" level, some of the smartest people ever have had "small" brains and the converse is also true.
On an inter-species level it's mind-boggling how intelligent even the smallest insects and arachnids can be. Is a human proportionately-cleverer than a tiny jumping spider by brain volume? I'm guessing we'd have to be a kazillion (scientific term) times smarter if brain volume or mass were the indicator.
That reminds me:
Anyone know how a spider knows how to spin it's species-specific-designed web? Nobody's seen a spider's mom or dad teach this to one. Genes cannot pass on the ability to recreate a specified design of something just because a parent could, at least as far as we know. Always wondered about this one.