2203/2204 with pedal vs hot-rodded Marshalls

[SpiderWars]

Beaten topic but I'm specifically interested in lower volume playing. The Marshall + pedal needs volume to really sound good. I'm not up to speed on all the various mods (Jose vs Aldrich vs SE vs ???) but I'm mainly talking about the more well-known mods. Do these sound better than JCM + pedal at lower volumes? Not at-home-while-watching-TV volumes but lowish band volumes (not loud).

It seems in a lot of higher gain tone tests on YT that a JCM800 + pedal hangs with (if not beats) pretty much anything. But it needs volume to really get there. And no loop unless it's newer or modded. I don't know which mods have loops but I'd really like to have a good loop.

Secondly, is $650 for an OK condition '86 4104 a decent deal? It's local-ish so I can test it. I'd much rather have a head but not totally opposed to a combo, unless it sounds crappy then it's just kind of a pita. Keep looking for head or compromise with combo?

 

[cardinal]

I use a 2204 with pedals at pretty low volumes and think it sounds great. I prefer it to the Pink Taco. It's been a long time since I've played the BE and HBE, but I don't recall being blown away by them compared with what I get from the Marshall.

That seems like a good price on the 4104, though the speakers may not be great (G12-70? In a small open back cab...). If you really want a head, you probably would do better to just wait for one to pop up.

 

[psychodave]

2204/2203 with a pedal sounds great. I still need a tiny bit more bottom end, so I suggest a simple depth mod with a 220k resistor with a .002 cap. It still sounds like a Marshall with this ;0)

 

[gtrwun]

Ummmm, I would snag that 4104 asap if I were you. Thats a great deal in my opinion. If it has the 70 watt Celestions in it, you gotta ditch those first thing, or just plug into a good 4x12. You cannot expect those 70's to sound good under ANY circumstance. Its just a fact.
I play both modded amps and stock with pedals and I like both for different reasons. Right now im using a 72 Superbass with an added Master volume and a Klon for my TV/noodle amp and it sounds killer. The superbass works great because its inherently a more bass heavy amp and it doesnt thin out using the pedal and the low volume as much as a stock JCM would. I think you'd pretty happy using that 4104 and a good pedal.

 

[paulyc]

I have two 2203s with Egnater's Megadrive mod and his tube loop, the way it works is great, the extra gain stage is wired only to the High sensitivity jack, and the Low becomes the stock High...so if you want Marshall high gain, plug into the Hi jack...if you want stock gain and a pedal, plug into the Low jack. The amp still sounds like a Marshall, it's not compressed to all hell, I find it big and open. The amps have his Low End Density knob too, the last coupling caps before the phase inverter were changed to Super Bass/Super PA values, and the Mid pot was replaced with a 50K Ohm (from 22K) for more mids. Finally, a mini toggle switch was placed on the front panel near the Midrange knob which is a scoop switch.

The tube loop is totally transparent.

 

[rottingcorpse]

Both kick ass at any volume for me.

My Langner 800 with depth mod and loop(I hate amp hiss so all I have in there is a decimator)is best for me. I would think my 2203KK would be classified as a modded 800,and it kicks ass too. But when I hear Bloodrocks boosted Marshall goodness in person,I see why he loves it.

I will say I only really loooove the 800 series. I have played some older modded marshalls,some 900s and some of the JVM new stuff and they were good,but not like my 800s.

Would a Fortin Hulk ground-up build count as a modded 800?

 

[Shawn Lutz]

I'm for keeping 2203/04's stock and using a pedal to drive it. I have an 83 JCM 2203 w/6550's and used an old original SD-1 and GE-7 out front.

Having said that I've had some 2203/04's that were just sort of blah and I'd probably consider a mod if I on those

 

[SpiderWars]

Local CL ad. If only it were a head...and cheaper:

Marshall 1983 4104 2x12 combo in excellent condition has a zero loss effects loop professionally installed by Gary Dahl and comes with road case.
This amp sounds awesome.
$1200 no trades

How much $$ should a road case add?

 

[dirtyfunkg]

Local CL ad. If only it were a head...and cheaper:

Marshall 1983 4104 2x12 combo in excellent condition has a zero loss effects loop professionally installed by Gary Dahl and comes with road case.
This amp sounds awesome.
$1200 no trades

How much $$ should a road case add?

FWIW I just bought a pretty clean 1977 JMP 2203 with road case for [] with NOS Tesla EL34's. Bought it about 2 months ago.

 

[SpiderWars]

FWIW I just bought a pretty clean 1977 JMP 2203 with road case for $1200 cash with NOS Tesla EL34's. Bought it about 2 months ago.

Good to know, thanks!

 

[cardinal]

OMG a 2x12 combo in a roadcase... That might weigh 150 lbs.

 

[Racerxrated]

I lucked into an 82 2204 for 849 at GC online. Has a great loop, and someone must have added some low end because it's almost as beefy as my 2C+. Almost. But a stock 800 and a pedal is great, not much different than some of the modded ones I've had. They vary so much, this one I have now compares to the best modded 800/JMPs I've had...Camerons, Golub, Fortin/Gower...when I boost it with an OD1X.

 

[splawner]

I lucked into an 82 2204 for 849 at GC online. Has a great loop, and someone must have added some low end because it's almost as beefy as my 2C+. Almost. But a stock 800 and a pedal is great, not much different than some of the modded ones I've had. They vary so much, this one I have now compares to the best modded 800/JMPs I've had...Camerons, Golub, Fortin/Gower...when I boost it with an OD1X.

^^^ Right here....Well said, I also have a 1979 JMP and boost it with a Cusac Screamer and it sounds as good if not better than the modded Marshalls i had and heard...

 

[SpiderWars]

OMG a 2x12 combo in a roadcase... That might weigh 150 lbs.

I've got a couple of EVs I could throw in there.

I lucked into an 82 2204 for 849 at GC online. Has a great loop, and someone must have added some low end because it's almost as beefy as my 2C+. Almost. But a stock 800 and a pedal is great, not much different than some of the modded ones I've had. They vary so much, this one I have now compares to the best modded 800/JMPs I've had...Camerons, Golub, Fortin/Gower...when I boost it with an OD1X.

That sounds like a good deal there. I should just wait and get exactly what I want. I'm seeing lots of stuff for sale these days so if I'm patient a deal will prob pop up. And in the meantime I can learn a bit about these loops that are in these amps (I don't care if it's a SS loop if it's transparent and works).

 

[Racerxrated]

OMG a 2x12 combo in a roadcase... That might weigh 150 lbs.

I've got a couple of EVs I could throw in there.

I lucked into an 82 2204 for 849 at GC online. Has a great loop, and someone must have added some low end because it's almost as beefy as my 2C+. Almost. But a stock 800 and a pedal is great, not much different than some of the modded ones I've had. They vary so much, this one I have now compares to the best modded 800/JMPs I've had...Camerons, Golub, Fortin/Gower...when I boost it with an OD1X.

That sounds like a good deal there. I should just wait and get exactly what I want. I'm seeing lots of stuff for sale these days so if I'm patient a deal will prob pop up. And in the meantime I can learn a bit about these loops that are in these amps (I don't care if it's a SS loop if it's transparent and works).

I pm' d you...not sure if you can get them yet? There's a 4104 at a GC for 799, vertical inputs so its a pre 84. Good price and 45 days to return it. Cusack screamer and the OD1X are my favorite boosts presently.

 

[1meanplexi]

Someone here a while ago did a clip that had a 2203 or 04 double boosted and you would swear it was George Lynch's Under Lock & Tone.

 

[cardinal]

Double boosting adds a ton of low end and gets crazy in a good way. I use a clean boost into an SD1. Some folks go the other way around and run the clean boost after the SD1. IMHO a clean boost adds too much low end and "hair" to the sound if you try to add too much gain with it, but stacked with the SD1 it's awesome.

 

[Chubtone]

Mark Cameron has told me a few times that it is very difficult to mod a Marshall and make it sound better than a stock Marshall boosted with the right pedal. In his opinion most modders fail at achieving that and he said he has to work hard to surpass that stock, boosted sound.

 

[d1469d]

I use a JCM 800 2210 boosted. It seems like the best all around tone I have had. I have several amps and the Marshall boosted seems just about right for what I need. If I get an amp modded it will not be the Marshall.

 

[splawner]

Mark Cameron has told me a few times that it is very difficult to mod a Marshall and make it sound better than a stock Marshall boosted with the right pedal. In his opinion most modders fail at achieving that and he said he has to work hard to surpass that stock, boosted sound.

Mark has always told me this in talking with him many of times...After having a few stock and modded marshalls i will always go back to the boosted ones as my favorite...