Buffers before or after Overdrive Pedals?

[saxxamafone]

I’ve started experimenting with buffer before and after my boost pedal

Still working out which I prefer

After the buffer, the OD seems a little brighter and clearer

Anyone else have a preference? Anyone else care?

 

[griff10672]

what else are you running ??

 

[RaceU4her]

never even though about it. my boss tuner is always first which i assume is buffered

 

[saxxamafone]

what else are you running ??

Bunch of true bypass pedals, the non TB pedals are in a Radial EFX true bypass loop, the overdrive is in one of these loops, and I have a Vahlbruch XRoads which is a buffer splitter pedal

First pedal is a whammy DT.

I have a true bypass wah on the way, I think I’ll put that 2nd.

So I need to work out if I put the buffer pedal before or after my overdrive

 

[saxxamafone]

never even though about it. my boss tuner is always first which i assume is buffered

Yes it is, I did that for years too

 

[Alpha Stryke]

Buffer before. Most Boss pedals are also buffers.

 

[rushcentrale]

Buffers towards the end of my chain and especially after Wahs and fuzz works best for me.

 

[The~Kid]

I’ve started experimenting with buffer before and after my boost pedal

Still working out which I prefer

After the buffer, the OD seems a little brighter and clearer

Anyone else have a preference? Anyone else care?

Use discretion...... IME it just depends on the pedal itself and not all buffer/true bypass are created equal.

 

[The~Kid]

Buffers towards the end of my chain and especially after Wahs and fuzz works best for me.

Good rule of thumb regarding wahs here especially right after a wah but again not all buffers/true bypass are made the same and use discretion IME.

 

[stephen sawall]

I have real mixed feels about buffers. Some of my amps the input is very sensitive to the guitar used. They just sound best plugged straight in. No effects.

If using pedals often the Peterson tuner with the buffer on is first.

I'm going with buffer before.

 

[The~Kid]

I have real mixed feels about buffers. Some of my amps the input is very sensitive to the guitar used. They just sound best plugged straight in. No effects.

If using pedals often the Peterson tuner with the buffer on is first.

I'm going with buffer before.

It only just depends on the quality of bypass either buffer/true bypass can sick or be good and it's best to use discretion as said IME.

 

[saxxamafone]

It only just depends on the quality of bypass either buffer/true bypass can sick or be good and it's best to use discretion as said IME.

Thanks mate

Are you saying there can be differences in true bypass pedals when they’re bypassed? If so, I never knew there could be a difference

Always assume true bypass is true bypass and the sound is all the same in that respect

 

[The~Kid]

Thanks mate

Are you saying there can be differences in true bypass pedals when they’re bypassed? If so, I never knew there could be a difference

Always assume true bypass is true bypass and the sound is all the same in that respect

This is true too but in general the main point I am making is there are differences in signal to signal regardless of the bypass........

Not every bypass, buffer or true bypass, are made equally in terms of quality and it's best to use discretion as a player and either can suck or be good....... As said it's best to use ones own discretion using placement from pedal to pedal as a baseline as well as ones signal straight into amp as a baseline regardless of the type of bypass due to this IME/IMO

 

[BeZo]

I’ve started experimenting with buffer before and after my boost pedal

Still working out which I prefer

After the buffer, the OD seems a little brighter and clearer

Anyone else have a preference? Anyone else care?

A buffer would preserve your tone better for a long cable run. The correct answer is at the end of the chain. Sometimes an input buffer gets in the way of pedals like fuzzes and wahs. If it seems brighter and clearer with the buffer after your boost, then that's where you need it. On my 4CM board, I run them at the end of each section. I got one right before the amp and one right before the return. Having a buffer at the end of the chain is the best practice, and rarely is it needed up front. It's best to let pedals in front of the input react to the guitar, especially if you roll the volume down for cleans.

 

[saxxamafone]

A buffer would preserve your tone better for a long cable run. The correct answer is at the end of the chain. Sometimes an input buffer gets in the way of pedals like fuzzes and wahs. If it seems brighter and clearer with the buffer after your boost, then that's where you need it. On my 4CM board, I run them at the end of each section. I got one right before the amp and one right before the return. Having a buffer at the end of the chain is the best practice, and rarely is it needed up front. It's best to let pedals in front of the input react to the guitar, especially if you roll the volume down for cleans.

Thanks mate - my experience was the other way around:

When I had the od pedal first and buffer 2nd, the tone was darker and not as clear

When I had the buffer first and then od 2nd, the tone was clearer and brighter

Strange

 

[tjnx]

You can place it where ever sounds best but just remember once the high end is gone you can't get it back. Usually the best bet is to have the buffer as close to your guitar's output jack as possible. This can get tricky because while you will preserve the initial high end, other cabling and pedals may roll it off later down the line.

In my setup for example, using a coupler out of my guitar straight into a CAL redeemer preserves the most high end. Next would be guitar to patch cable to buffer, then guitar > 6' low capacitance cable to the buffer - all prior to hitting my pedal board.

I replaced all my cabling to be the same low capacitance cable and I'm using the same patch cables. So just try it out, some pedals and true bypass circuitry may be better than others.

I have 2 buffers and putting one at the front of my chain and one at the end prior to the fx loop return worked best with my setup.

I'd recommend getting a buffered interface from saturnworks so you can tap into it multiple times as needed.

 

[Faded Abyss]

“buffer” is a misconception. Whichever pedal is activated becomes the buffer, which “loads” the pickups. my approach is the “always on” type of pedal.

Look at the input impedance of your amp (usually 1 meg-ohm)

Look at the input impedance of your first activated or… “buffered” pedal: usually 1 meg-ohm.

Consider exceptions like TS9 tube screamer type or boss DS-1 which are 500k ohms.

If you put a “always on pedal” that has 1-meg ohm input impedance IN FRONT of a TS9 pedal, your pickups won’t see the 500k input of the TS9, instead they will be loaded by the first activated always on pedal (or “buffer”) in front of it - which will be a closer feel/response/tone to your conventional 1-meg amp input.

So you have to decide what you want. Do you want to load your pickups with a TS9 type 500k input or match what your amp would feel like?

*everything downstream of the first activated pedal (or “buffer”) will have no effect on your pickups*

Yes it will affect tone and feel… but electronically, only the first activated pedal “sees” your pickups. Don’t confuse buffered bypass in all this, let’s just pretend they don’t exist

 

[tjnx]

This is probably not the most scientifically accurate example but I kinda think of it like this.

Imagine you are blowing into a straw while holding it between your index and thumb fingers. Your mouth (the guitar pickups) can blow at a certain pressure from 0 - 10 through the straw. Your fingers holding the straw pick up how much pressure they feel and pass the signal along for highs and low on a scale from 0 - 10. 0 being max lows, 10 max highs.

If you use a small straw that provides enough resistance to your lung capacity, your fingers holding the straw can pick up the full pressure range as it expands and contracts. If you use a lower resistance (impedance), large wrapping paper tube and blow into it with the same force your fingers may only see a range of pressures from 0 - 8 as you're not able to provide enough force to expand it fully with your lungs.

So matching the impedance initially to the guitar pickups passes that full 0 - 10 range along like the small straw from the get go, much like a game of telephone.

Lets say you have only one buffer and put it after your od. Because you had not placed a buffer before it, the top value the od sees going into it is capped at an 8, but because it has lots of cabling after it the max out of the amp winds up being a 6. - the treble is rolled off.

The buffer after the od would allow it to pass an 8 to the amp so it would still be brighter than without it (a 6), but not quite as bright as it could be (a 10) if you had also loaded the pickups with a proper buffer from the start.

 

[scottosan]

typically end of the line

 

[saxxamafone]

Th

“buffer” is a misconception. Whichever pedal is activated becomes the buffer, which “loads” the pickups. my approach is the “always on” type of pedal.

Look at the input impedance of your amp (usually 1 meg-ohm)

Look at the input impedance of your first activated or… “buffered” pedal: usually 1 meg-ohm.

Consider exceptions like TS9 tube screamer type or boss DS-1 which are 500k ohms.

If you put a “always on pedal” that has 1-meg ohm input impedance IN FRONT of a TS9 pedal, your pickups won’t see the 500k input of the TS9, instead they will be loaded by the first activated always on pedal (or “buffer”) in front of it - which will be a closer feel/response/tone to your conventional 1-meg amp input.

So you have to decide what you want. Do you want to load your pickups with a TS9 type 500k input or match what your amp would feel like?

*everything downstream of the first activated pedal (or “buffer”) will have no effect on your pickups*

Yes it will affect tone and feel… but electronically, only the first activated pedal “sees” your pickups. Don’t confuse buffered bypass in all this, let’s just pretend they don’t exist

This makes a lot of sense thank you.

My od is an od808 and my buffer is 1meg ohm

Probably explains why the buffer before my od sounds brighter because the pickups are seeing 1 meg ohm rather than 500k?