Bugera TriRec Vs. Mesa Dual Recto (Video)

[madrigal77]

Where do you supposed those big soldering machines and other equipment that Mesa uses in that video is made? No Chinese parts in there, I'm sure...

I'm suppose we should throw out the baby with the bath water...

The point is that people are greatly amplifying ( ) the actual impact of their personal choices and how much of a difference "buying American" actually makes anymore. Not that anyone doesn't want to support the home team, but reality is what it is. Across the board, most consumer products are manufactured in China and there is no choice. 300 billion in a drop in the bucket as far as US-China goes, really.

My point is that throwing the baby out with the bath water shows a lack of foresight.

The truth is that you're already defeated, and worse is that you're using that defeatist mindset as a justification for making no effort to improve anything for your fellow Americans and you argue that everyone else should do the same. You have the option to do more, but China's already won so why bother...

But let me guess... you're just one dude. What you do doesn't matter. You could buy all American and you still wouldn't make a significant difference, so why bother?

Why bother? Because there's millions of other dudes out their with your shitty, defeatist attitude that can't bother to do anything about their lot in life and choose to accept things meekly instead of voting with their fucking dollar.

Personally, I'm not buying Bugera anyway and I'm not going out of my way to support Chinese products. I had a Mesa, but it didn't do it for me so I sold it.

It's not defeatist, it's the reality of the situation. We're way past "voting with your dollar." I don't think it's a good thing, but it's true. It's just vanity to think you can change the world with your amp purchase decision.

Bugera isn't Chinese, they're German.

 

[jiveturkey]

Where do you supposed those big soldering machines and other equipment that Mesa uses in that video is made? No Chinese parts in there, I'm sure...

I'm suppose we should throw out the baby with the bath water...

The point is that people are greatly amplifying ( ) the actual impact of their personal choices and how much of a difference "buying American" actually makes anymore. Not that anyone doesn't want to support the home team, but reality is what it is. Across the board, most consumer products are manufactured in China and there is no choice. 300 billion in a drop in the bucket as far as US-China goes, really.

My point is that throwing the baby out with the bath water shows a lack of foresight.

The truth is that you're already defeated, and worse is that you're using that defeatist mindset as a justification for making no effort to improve anything for your fellow Americans and you argue that everyone else should do the same. You have the option to do more, but China's already won so why bother...

But let me guess... you're just one dude. What you do doesn't matter. You could buy all American and you still wouldn't make a significant difference, so why bother?

Why bother? Because there's millions of other dudes out their with your shitty, defeatist attitude that can't bother to do anything about their lot in life and choose to accept things meekly instead of voting with their fucking dollar.

Personally, I'm not buying Bugera anyway and I'm not going out of my way to support Chinese products. I had a Mesa, but it didn't do it for me so I sold it.

It's not defeatist, it's the reality of the situation. We're way past "voting with your dollar." I don't think it's a good thing, but it's true. It's just vanity to think you can change the world with your amp purchase decision.

Bugera isn't Chinese, they're German.

AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH SHIT

 

[dooredge]

Behringer and Bugera are one in the same. They may have originated in Germany, but they are all China at this point.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behringer

Behringer is an audio equipment company founded by Uli Behringer in 1989, in Willich, Germany. Behringer was listed as the 14th largest manufacturer of music products in 2007.[3] Behringer is a multi-national group of companies, with direct marketing presence in 10 countries or territories and a sales network in over 130 countries around the world. Though originally a German manufacturer, the company now makes its products in China.

The company is owned by Music Group, a holding company chaired by Uli Behringer, which also owns other audio companies such as Midas, Klark Teknik and Bugera, as well as Electronic Manufacturing Services company Eurotec. In June 2012, Music Group also acquired Turbosound, a company formerly owned by Harman

2002–2007: Behringer City

Behringer City
In 2002, Behringer completed its own factory, Behringer City, in Zhongshan of China's Guangdong province after it consolidated more than ten separate production locations into one vertically integrated plant. Comprising eight buildings that produces electronics, speakers, guitars and digital pianos and also hosts an onsite health clinic.[6] This strategy was different than that taken by other musical instrument companies who used third party manufacturers. Choosing to run a self-contained plant allowed Behringer a greater level of quality control.[6] The 1,200,000-square-foot (110,000 m2) manufacturing complex in Zhongshan ships more than 2.5 million Behringer products per year to markets around the globe. The plant turns out over 50,000 mixers per month with a failure rate that is less than 0.1%

Also, Behringer has been sued by Roland, Peavey, Mackie and who knows who else. They're still rolling strong so they do their homework. Mesa will not sue them. Not worth the time or the effort.

 

[borninwinter]

The wikipedia link said that Behringer/Bugera is owned by a company called Music Group, which is based in the Philippines. It also says though that the chairman of Music Group is Uli Behringer, so it's still the same German management. According to the back of the amp, they are assembled in China.

Of interest:
"On 30 November 1999, the U.S. District Court in Seattle, Washington, dismissed Mackie claims that Behringer had infringed on Mackie copyrights with its MX 8000 mixer, noting that circuit schematics are not covered by copyright laws.[18][19][20]"

However,
In 2005, Roland Corporation sued to enforce Roland's trade dress, trademark, and other intellectual property rights with regard to Behringer's recently released guitar pedals.[21] The two companies came to a confidential settlement in 2006 after Behringer changed their designs.[22]

In 2009 Peavey Electronics Corp. filed two lawsuits against various companies under Behringer/Music Group umbrella for patent infringement, federal and common law trademark infringement, false designation of origin, trademark dilution and unfair competition.[23] In 2011 The Music Group filed a lawsuit against Peavey for "false advertising, false patent marking and unfair competition".[24]

So, legally, looks the it would just be a question of whether the amp looks too much like a Mesa. I guess that would be a question for court if it ever got that far, but I don't think anyone would be fooled by the looks alone.

 

[dirtyfunkg]

And Fender does a bunch of manufacturing in China. Epiphone (and therefore Gibson) too. You saying we shouldn't buy their MIC products either? Because of course the kid buying a Squier and Bugera (or Tiny Terror) is taking money away from American/British/German manufacturers by not buying a MIA Fender and a Mesa? GMAFB. Totally different target markets.

To me, it comes down to quality, bang for the buck, and, let's face it, a certain amount of image. I wouldn't be caught dead at a gig with "Bugera" behind me. All of my guitars are MIJ except for my partscaster (body from my first guitar, a Squier) and Dean Vendetta that I've heavily modded (MIK). That said, once upon a time, I would have used those things. It's not like I had the money to be buying top quality American gear when I was in high school or even college. Even now there's no way I'd buy an amp new... period, when I know I can get equal or better quality on the used market.

Working musicians tend to see things the same way I do. Not all of us are loaded, and touring musicians are generally broke, period. One of the best guitarists I know plays in a touring band and uses a Bugera and a Cort. He's not out to make a political statement. He's just out to sound good. And he sounds fucking good. Not all touring guitarists have endorsements or access to free/discounted gear. They buy what they can afford to be able to practice their craft.

If you're a hobbyist or are somehow lucky enough to be making good money on your gear, then you'll know why it's a better decision to buy a Mesa, and they'll be your decisions. Otherwise, as was with the car argument earlier, all this does is make good tone more accessible to more people. Bugera will NEVER have the reputation of Mesa.

 

[Viesczy]

We're way past "voting with your dollar."

Sorry, but you are wrong.

Actually, you're wrong. With the Corporatist world we're in, you have no choice/vote.

All you "it is a knock off" guys just kill me. So you all drive Mercedes Benz and no other car, right?

You and your pretensions about "made in China" just laughable. How many of you shit on Carvin products?

Back on topic, thought they both sounded great. I'm going to score a Trirec when it comes out, I wanna compare it to my Road King II.

Derek

 

[D-Rock]

Man this thread is sure bringing the Behringer lovers out of the woodwork.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

Man this thread is sure bringing the Behringer lovers out of the woodwork.

Woodwork was blown open, way more than that.

When I was growing up I would have been ecstatic over the affordable choices in gear available today. Any offerings that allow budding musicians of any age more options/choices to play music in this world I'm all for it imo.

I love all stratum of gear but at certain stages of life sometimes our choices are limited.

 

[Mailman1971]

Man this thread is sure bringing the Behringer lovers out of the woodwork.

Woodwork was blown open, way more than that.

When I was growing up I would have been ecstatic over the affordable choices in gear available today. Any offerings that allow budding musicians of any age more options/choices to play music in this world I'm all for it imo.

I love high end gear but at certain stages of life sometimes our choices are limited.

+1....I had to buy all my equipment. Busted my ass working in the Fields(was 14) all summer long to buy my 1st guitar.
Rode my bike 3 miles to be at this local farm at 6am....worked till 4. Six days a week for $2.00 an hour. My first guitar amp combo was a Fender Squier bullet and Peavey Backstage plus.
My Fender was Made in Japan.

 

[borninwinter]

Man this thread is sure bringing the Behringer lovers out of the woodwork.

Woodwork was blown open, way more than that.

When I was growing up I would have been ecstatic over the affordable choices in gear available today. Any offerings that allow budding musicians of any age more options/choices to play music in this world I'm all for it imo.

I love high end gear but at certain stages of life sometimes our choices are limited.

+1....I had to buy all my equipment. Busted my ass working in the Fields(was 14) all summer long to buy my 1st guitar.
Rode my bike 3 miles to be at this local farm at 6am....worked till 4. Six days a week for $2.00 an hour. My first guitar amp combo was a Fender Squier bullet and Peavey Backstage plus.
My Fender was Made in Japan.

My first guitar was a Fender Squire Bullet also, still have it. Aftet that, I worked at a local fast food establishment to get an LTD Horizon and Carvin tube head.

 

[TheMagicEight]

Actually, you're wrong. With the Corporatist world we're in, you have no choice/vote.

All you "it is a knock off" guys just kill me. So you all drive Mercedes Benz and no other car, right?

You and your pretensions about "made in China" just laughable. How many of you shit on Carvin products?

Back on topic, thought they both sounded great. I'm going to score a Trirec when it comes out, I wanna compare it to my Road King II.

Derek

I'm glad you enjoy your corporatist overlords.

 

[blackba]

I have a few different amps and I use them for tools in my music. I don't care what they cost as long as they serve the purpose. I got a 6260 on a trade and I upgraded the pots and OT, and it has been running great for around 4 years. I bought a Mark lV and I love that amp, but I have had it in the shop about three times in less than two years. I am not saying that the Mesa is a badly built amp and I am aware that Bugera does use crappy components, but at the end of the day they are still just tools for music. I am not even going to go into the made in U.S. vs China debate b/c that is just silly. Thanks for the vid fluff and I agree that the Bugera sounds better in this vid and I would have no issues at all owning one if I was in the need for a high gainer. The Hypocrisy is so strong in so many post's in this thread.

Everyone is a hypocrite about something. It's not a crime to be a hypocrite either.

I think bugera and behringer would serve themselves well to change the names of their products so they don't just look like a brand of cheap copies. The bugera v22 is supposed to be an original design, but it gets overlooked with all the bugeras that look like copies.

My personal opinion is that cheap copies are not cool, but I have no issue with expensive boutique amps that are offering a higher quality version of the original. I am sure many will see this as hypocrisy, so be it. No one is going to change their mind by posts in is thread.

 

[TheMagicEight]

No one is going to change their mind by posts in is thread.

That's the sad part about these things. I think we all know this, we're here to talk about gear, and yet it's so hard to avoid bickering.

 

[some dude]

 

[madrigal77]

I could find tons more examples, but you get the point

 

[maddnotez]

Hey cool video fluff.

 

[some dude]

I could find tons more examples, but you get the point

Does the Splawn sound exactly like a Super Lead? Is it cloning a current production Marshall amp? Is Spawn making a cheap Marshall in an attempt to undercut them using their own brand and image? Is it called the 1959+1 so that even simpletons will be able to figure out what it's supposed to be a copy of?

Atleast if you'd listed more examples you may have found one that didn't suck.

 

[guitarmike]

300 billion in a drop in the bucket as far as US-China goes, really.

Go on....

I'd like 1/2 of that drop in the bucket. We all agree that any 1 person making 1 purchase does not impact much of anything in the nation's economy. The point is for many reasons that are not in the USA's best interest, we off shored most of our manufacturing base and all of the middle class jobs that were associated to them. If you are under 50 or have kids you'd better start caring....unless you like living in poverty.

 

[Shiny_Surface]

I could find tons more examples, but you get the point

Does the Splawn sound exactly like a Super Lead? Is it cloning a current production Marshall amp? Is Spawn making a cheap Marshall in an attempt to undercut them using their own brand and image? Is it called the 1959+1 so that even simpletons will be able to figure out what it's supposed to be a copy of?

Atleast if you'd listed more examples you may have found one that didn't suck.

While not a perfect analogy it's a valid comparison imo. Cosmetically similar with some tweaks and circuit design differences priced for a specific target market. Marshall issued a cease and desist for the Marsha for cosmetic appearance similarity if I recall. Which is a great amp imo.

I agree with Blackba's post above it's ok to be biased and/or support a double standard. We are all hypocrites to some degree on any particular topic in life.

 

[jiveturkey]

I could find tons more examples, but you get the point

Does the Splawn sound exactly like a Super Lead? Is it cloning a current production Marshall amp? Is Spawn making a cheap Marshall in an attempt to undercut them using their own brand and image? Is it called the 1959+1 so that even simpletons will be able to figure out what it's supposed to be a copy of?

Atleast if you'd listed more examples you may have found one that didn't suck.

While not a perfect analogy it's a valid comparison imo. Cosmetically similar with some tweaks and circuit design differences priced for a specific target market. Marshall issued a cease and desist for the Marsha for cosmetic appearance similarity if I recall. Which is a great amp imo.

I agree with Blackba's post above it's ok to be biased and/or support a double standard. We are all hypocrites to some degree on any particular topic in life.

It's an expensive Marshall copy and the name is different so that makes it ok . If you're going to be hypocritical, at least admit to it