By request: axe fx 2c++…. Does it Metallica?

V

VESmedic

Well-known member
Well, if most certainly does. But, it also takes a lot of post processing to get there. I thought I would give the black album a shot in the digital world, and mix in some of the analog world with a similar approach as to what bob rock did. As many know, bob used 2 aphex eq’s in the loop of the amp. I simulated this by using my hardware sontec 250 clone: which is a worlds better eq no one will argue that, but it’s not in the loop of the amp, I used it in the DAW. For what it’s worth, EQing an amp wjth an eq in the loop vs in the DAW is very different, as the eq in the loop behaves differently because it’s essentially part of the circuit at that time, if that makes sense. So it’s the same, but different.

I matched the settings for fun that are out there for the 2c+ On the EQ and graphic eq. I used 2 of my favorite IR’s from titan audio ( about all I use these days) of a Marshall BV Cab with a Unidyne 57/421 combo, same setup as that was used on the album.

Then, I sent that to my hardware eq, and used about the same settings as bob used on the aphex eq’s. Then, I used the Korneff audio AIP To widen the guitars just a tad. MDWEQ for high and low pass at roughly the same frequencies bob did the cuts at, and pro MB for some slight taming of the palm mutes, but not too much at all.

Is it close? I mean I guess it’s definitely got the vibe. But rememeber, I didn’t mix in a modded Marshall like they did, I didn’t use 8 tracks of guitars, or a baritone on certain palm mutes added in like they did in the studio, there were no room mics ( I didn’t even add reverb, thought about it because it obviously is everywhere on the guitars), oh, and I’m not James or bob rock.


But , for less than 10 minutes of work? Pretty cool!

https://on.soundcloud.com/bKGcVJcqzfJ8Cw9u8
*added* Cameron atomica mixed in

https://on.soundcloud.com/vgH11oJ8vpmR2w6PA
 
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sounds cool. what are the aphex settings, i think i saw -6 db at 900 and 1.2 and a shelf boost at 4.6k or something?? i gotta try throwing a parametric in my iic+ loop with those settings.
 
I think you went a little conservative on the gain level, but otherwise, it's got the vibe for sure!

Maybe a little bright, but it's hard to judge that outside of a full mix... especially since on the OG, the guitars are kinda low in the mix. At least compared to the drums and the vocals.
 
RaceU4her said:
sounds cool. what are the aphex settings, i think i saw -6 db at 900 and 1.2 and a shelf boost at 4.6k or something?? i gotta try throwing a parametric in my iic+ loop with those settings.
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You are in the ball park for sure. +4 shelf at 120hz, -6 at 900 hz ( peaking style, I did a Q of 1), -6 at 1200hz ( Q of 1) -4db at 240hz ( q of 1), shelf at 4.2k , +6db, shelf at 6k, +6db, hi pass at 100hz.
 
Rex Rocker said:
I think you went a little conservative on the gain level, but otherwise, it's got the vibe for sure!

Maybe a little bright, but it's hard to judge that outside of a full mix... especially since on the OG, the guitars are kinda low in the mix. At least compared to the drums and the vocals.
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Yea definitely for sure bright, probably too bright. But, it was interesting to try the “same” settings as bob used. I think if anything it shows you that you can’t just use the same settings and expect even very similar results, but I think most of is already know this. I think with the Marshalls midrange added in, it would sound much less bright for sure, because the added midrange would probably balance that out.
 
JackBootedThug said:
dude-you got killer skills but that sounded all 0's and 1's to me. Take that with a grain of salt because I'm not using my monitors at the moment. And not saying that's bad...just seems kinda digital to me whereas about everything I have heard you post does not.
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Dude it’s all good man, no offense taken at all. I think it’s just because it’s such a scooped sound on its own, that without the Marshall in there, it definitely is too sizzly and harsh/scooped sounding. I like it for what it is, and would probably be cool on its own in a death metal mix or something haha.

I will say though, I haven’t watched it in awhile but, if you watch a year in the life doc, there is multiple scenes were you hear the guitar tones coming out of the NS10s in the studio, and this sounds very very similar to that, to me by memory anyways. I could be wrong, but I feel like it definitely sounds like the raw tones they were getting before the mix was done
 
Sounds killer . But the highs of Bobs jode Marshall are needed . Will you add a little just for the experiment?
 
Not a bad rendering, it’s a little bright for the rhythm tone.

I think it needs more bottom and lower mids.

Just my .02
 
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Techdeth said:
Sounds killer . But the highs of Bobs jode Marshall are needed . Will you add a little just for the experiment?
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So I contemplated throwing in the atomica model with this, but blending two amps is harder than people think to get right. But I’ll give it a shot, I’ll blend the Cameron in in parallel with this and see what I come up with, maybe it’ll be sick.
 
I've always been curious. I always felt the Black Album guitars sound slightly... phasey? Or maybe it's the room mics? Or the over-the-top multi-tracking?
 
Rex Rocker said:
I've always been curious. I always felt the Black Album guitars sound slightly... phasey? Or maybe it's the room mics? Or the over-the-top multi-tracking?
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Good ear, you are 100 percent correct. Those guitars are phase city. But, that’s the sound. You can’t reallllyyy get that sound without getting the mics out of phase in the right way like bob did. Just another point of what a great engineer can do. He has an amazing ear there is no doubt about it.

People freak out about keeping shit in phase, myself included. But, sometimes wrong, is right. Having the balls to believe in what you’re doing and go with it, is another monumental task I would think too. Like imagine you’re engineering the black album and you hear these guitars are super out of phase that you are responsible for making sound awesome. But it DOES sound awesome, or so you think? But it IS awesome…. But it’s wrong, completely wrong…. But it’s right. I mean that to me, takes a huge amount of risk. Pretty sick though.
 
VESmedic said:
So I contemplated throwing in the atomica model with this, but blending two amps is harder than people think to get right. But I’ll give it a shot, I’ll blend the Cameron in in parallel with this and see what I come up with, maybe it’ll be sick.
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Sweet
 
I never owned the III but man it sounds great. For recording the ease of use seems incredible. Isn’t there a tone match feature that’s supposed to be super accurate? I thought I remembered seeing some guy do that with cannibal corpse and it got close, like scary close. And I could be wrong about the match; may just be the guy who was running it. He used the rectifier model and Marshall mixed like they did on their latest.
 
Rex Rocker said:
I think you went a little conservative on the gain level, but otherwise, it's got the vibe for sure!

Maybe a little bright, but it's hard to judge that outside of a full mix... especially since on the OG, the guitars are kinda low in the mix. At least compared to the drums and the vocals.
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I feel like the brightness would totally work in context. Something I’ve found and advice I’ve gotten from people that are pros, when mixing if you have brighter guitars gotta lower their volume in the overall mix. Then they just sit right. Just having the faders set right is like the most important thing. I always used to cut too many highs out thinking it would solve my issue when really I just needed to lower the volume. As guitar players we are all guilty of always cranking it too loud. The more eq and stuff you do to a guitar post, the more phase problems that occur, guitars do not take post EQ well typically like drums, etc do.

But then again there was absolutely NOTHING natural about the black album sound, and the guitars were phasey as shit, but sounded great.
 
Bram576 said:
I feel like the brightness would totally work in context. Something I’ve found and advice I’ve gotten from people that are pros, when mixing if you have brighter guitars gotta lower their volume in the overall mix. Then they just sit right. Just having the faders set right is like the most important thing. I always used to cut too many highs out thinking it would solve my issue when really I just needed to lower the volume. As guitar players we are all guilty of always cranking it too loud. The more eq and stuff you do to a guitar post, the more phase problems that occur, guitars do not take post EQ well typically like drums, etc do.

But then again there was absolutely NOTHING natural about the black album sound, and the guitars were phasey as shit, but sounded great.
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You nailed it. Especially about the brightness. are these alittle bright? Sure, but like you said in a mix and turned down a bit lower, they are gonna crunch hard I would think. I should do a full production of this and see what happens, I dunno. Most of my favs have incredibly bright guitars, especially by todays standards of safe, dark, no attack, bloated guitars. I still gotta Write you back homie I’m about to do that fyi.
 
Bram576 said:
I never owned the III but man it sounds great. For recording the ease of use seems incredible. Isn’t there a tone match feature that’s supposed to be super accurate? I thought I remembered seeing some guy do that with cannibal corpse and it got close, like scary close. And I could be wrong about the match; may just be the guy who was running it. He used the rectifier model and Marshall mixed like they did on their latest.
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Yes there is, I haven’t dove into it though, I really should though. I don’t reference enough either when dialing shit in, that would help a bit too.
 
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