Does Grill Cloth Really make a difference?????

[232cap]

I can sell you some of my magic speaker dust, or hook it up to a variac and let it go for a few hours.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

tonmazz, are you using a 100w with your speakers, or a 50w amp? If your cab is darker than 232's cab, with identical speakers/wiring scheme, wire gauge used, etc. then yours should be brighter with the check cloth than the S&P cloth.

You don't have that stereo switching unit, correct? It should be just the single 1/4" jack in the back for the speaker cable.

There's another possibility, too, though...but you won't want to hear it. You said you bought all four speakers from different places/sources. Are you certain they're all good?

 

[tonmazz]

tonmazz, are you using a 100w with your speakers, or a 50w amp? If your cab is darker than 232's cab, with identical speakers/wiring scheme, wire gauge used, etc. then yours should be brighter with the check cloth than the S&P cloth.

You don't have that stereo switching unit, correct? It should be just the single 1/4" jack in the back for the speaker cable.

There's another possibility, too, though...but you won't want to hear it. You said you bought all four speakers from different places/sources. Are you certain they're all good?

They are 100watt with no stereo switching unit. I don't think they are bad because they don't sound horrible by any means. They just arent as smooth and creamy as the others and there is a pretty big difference although you can hear the characteristics of the H30 in both. Looking at the grill cloth, it does make sense that mine should let more of the highs through. I think I'll break it open and totally rewire it from scratch and see what happens. At that point if it doesn't make a difference, decision time I guess. Any advice on trying to break them in? I have an effects unit I can set to loop 30 seconds of guitar track. Trust me if I had the cash, I'd be placing my order for 4 scumbacks. I know they rock based on the cab Art has with them loaded. Thanks.

 

[tonmazz]

Well Art and I just compared the two cabs. Construction is the same and they are wired the same. Mine sounds darker and more muffled with the large check and his sounds brighter and more open with the salt and pepper. Now the only other factor is possibly that I put mine together with 4 different speakers, they came from four different places so maybe they arent broken in evenly? Is this a possible factor as well? What would be the best way to even them out and break them in? Help!

Construction is the same....so you both have plywood backs? I think the speakers are your issue since they are sourced from different locations with different life usage. Also, check that all of the speakers are in phase with each other by using a 9 vlt battery on the jack after all of the speakers are wired up. I have seen speakers wired backwards from the factory...doesn't happen often, but it does happen.

Dave,

Please elaborate on the 9volt batt thing. What am I looking for with that? Also do you think the plywood back would be that drastic a difference? I don't know what the reissue AX cabs came with compared to the handwired to be honest. Like I said they aren't horrible but I just can't fathom why they are so different from each other. Like I said in the previous post, I might just have to pick up some Scummies or a handwired and be done.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

tonmazz, I meant the amp you're using with the cab. Is it a 100w amp or a 50w amp?

 

[blackba]

I don’t think the plywood back makes a drastic difference, but it does have "some" affect.

The battery trick is used to make sure all of the speakers are moving in the same direction and in "phase" with each other. You simply wire up the cabinet then use the battery on the positive and negative wires to physically watch the cones move. If all of the cones move either up or down, then all is good. If any speakers moves in the opposite direction, then there is an issue. Also, the speakers "may" sound different if they are wired backwards….like if the black goes to the tip and the red goes to the ring. I am not sure what the effect will be, but it may sound different.

I thought changing out the back of my Marshall 2556AV 212 cab to plywood made a significant difference, I was surprised. I did the change, since I wanted to change out the jack and didn't want to hack up the original back and affect the value of the cab.

As for the grill cloth, not surprised it makes a difference, can totally see how it can be a filter. That said I don't see myself changing the grill cloth on my cabs, unless it gets ripped. Then I will look into to what to get. At some point all these small things that make a difference become overwhelming. That is kind of where I am at. I just want to get to a place where I can stop tinkering and just play.

 

[tonmazz]

tonmazz, I meant the amp you're using with the cab. Is it a 100w amp or a 50w amp?

100, sorry I did mean that but I didn't state it clearly.

 

[tonmazz]

I don’t think the plywood back makes a drastic difference, but it does have "some" affect.

The battery trick is used to make sure all of the speakers are moving in the same direction and in "phase" with each other. You simply wire up the cabinet then use the battery on the positive and negative wires to physically watch the cones move. If all of the cones move either up or down, then all is good. If any speakers moves in the opposite direction, then there is an issue. Also, the speakers "may" sound different if they are wired backwards….like if the black goes to the tip and the red goes to the ring. I am not sure what the effect will be, but it may sound different.

I'll check this out Thursday night, pretty cool trick. Away on business until then unfortunately. I'll report back. Thanks.

 

[tonmazz]

I don’t think the plywood back makes a drastic difference, but it does have "some" affect.

The battery trick is used to make sure all of the speakers are moving in the same direction and in "phase" with each other. You simply wire up the cabinet then use the battery on the positive and negative wires to physically watch the cones move. If all of the cones move either up or down, then all is good. If any speakers moves in the opposite direction, then there is an issue. Also, the speakers "may" sound different if they are wired backwards….like if the black goes to the tip and the red goes to the ring. I am not sure what the effect will be, but it may sound different.

I thought changing out the back of my Marshall 2556AV 212 cab to plywood made a significant difference, I was surprised. I did the change, since I wanted to change out the jack and didn't want to hack up the original back and affect the value of the cab.

As for the grill cloth, not surprised it makes a difference, can totally see how it can be a filter. That said I don't see myself changing the grill cloth on my cabs, unless it gets ripped. Then I will look into to what to get. At some point all these small things that make a difference become overwhelming. That is kind of where I am at. I just want to get to a place where I can stop tinkering and just play.

You hit it on the head brother!! I just want to play already. I have the amp I love and am thrilled with, all the guitars I love and feel comfortable with. I just have to solve the cab dilemma and I'll be set...for a while anyway.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

tonmazz, I meant the amp you're using with the cab. Is it a 100w amp or a 50w amp?

100, sorry I did mean that but I didn't state it clearly.

Have you turned your amp volume up past 4-5 on your 100w amp to this single Heritage 30w loaded 4x12 ?

 

[tonmazz]

tonmazz, I meant the amp you're using with the cab. Is it a 100w amp or a 50w amp?

100, sorry I did mean that but I didn't state it clearly.

Have you turned your amp volume up past 4-5 on your 100w amp to this single Heritage 30w loaded 4x12 ?

Probably close to 4 but not 5 for sure. I was debating on airing it out in a band environment though. I have only hesitated because I'm not happy with the sound.

 

[glip22]

You guys have GOT to be joking...??!!??

Seriously???

I profess complete and utter ignorance if this is indeed the case. I'd never in a million years concurred with this notion. Ever. I'm going to have to learn a bit more about this, as honestly?? I would claimed SNAKE OIL the moment someone woulda tried to feed me this.

Kazy.
V.

Keep thinking it is snake oil, while I keep having killer tone No BS with grill cloths...

Dave is the cab master. If he says it affects tone, you better believe it does. And no, we are not having an affair

 

[tonmazz]

tonmazz, I meant the amp you're using with the cab. Is it a 100w amp or a 50w amp?

100, sorry I did mean that but I didn't state it clearly.

Have you turned your amp volume up past 4-5 on your 100w amp to this single Heritage 30w loaded 4x12 ?

Not sure where you're going with this but just thought I'd play it on 5 with some ear protection prior to seeing what you had to say. I don't know if it was the EXTREME volume or what, but when I would chuck on the E string a weird flubbiness would appear. I think we're getting somewhere!

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Not sure where you're going with this but just thought I'd play it on 5 with some ear protection prior to seeing what you had to say. I don't know if it was the EXTREME volume or what, but when I would chuck on the E string a weird flubbiness would appear. I think we're getting somewhere!

Here's where I'm going. 100w Marshalls, such as your 79 JMP, routinely put out 120-130w clean (that's 3% distortion according to Marshall), and around 180-190w when at 10% distortion (if not more) which is usually around 6 or higher on the volume knob.

You'll hate hearing this, but the 70's JMP heads come on stronger and louder than other Marshalls. I would have to think that if you had Dave do the Kitchen Sink mods to this amp, that it got retubed/biased, yada yada yada. That means it's in really good shape power output wise.

What that also means is that you probably hit 100w on 3 on your volume knob, and a good 150 or more at 4-5.

If you turn your amp up past 5-6 you may notice you don't get any more volume but just more gain/saturation. That means you've maxed the output of the amp...and sadly, that means you sent 180-190w to those four 30w speakers.

In essence you either damaged them, cooked them, or they're on their way to doing that (if not already). The H magnet models shouldn't have any "flubbiness" to the bass response, so if you're getting that on 5...uh...it may be too late already.

Back in the 60's Marshall sold two 100 or 120w cabs with each 100w head for a reason. They blew speakers if they didn't.

 

[jerrydyer]

I find that the cain grillclothe has a sweeter tone to it than regular salt and peppa , thats more of a texas tone

 

[232cap]

Tonmazz now we know what that burning smell was, your speakers.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

Tonmazz now we know what that burning smell was, your speakers.

Assuming you're not kidding....um, yeah. You'll need 200w (or more) of power handling to run that JMP/KS modded amp, sir.

 

[Scumback Speakers]

My old amp tech measured one old 100w Plexi at 235w when cranked on 10. Hate to have seen the plate voltage on that sucker.

I keep posting this PDF file version of the JCM 800 series manual (w/power ratings) for anyone who wants to double check their amps BEFORE thinking a 100/120w cab is good for a 100w amp. I get the idea no one reads it, but here it is again.

http://southbayampworks.com/marshallman ... 0specs.pdf

 

[tonmazz]

Not sure where you're going with this but just thought I'd play it on 5 with some ear protection prior to seeing what you had to say. I don't know if it was the EXTREME volume or what, but when I would chuck on the E string a weird flubbiness would appear. I think we're getting somewhere!

Here's where I'm going. 100w Marshalls, such as your 79 JMP, routinely put out 120-130w clean (that's 3% distortion according to Marshall), and around 180-190w when at 10% distortion (if not more) which is usually around 6 or higher on the volume knob.

You'll hate hearing this, but the 70's JMP heads come on stronger and louder than other Marshalls. I would have to think that if you had Dave do the Kitchen Sink mods to this amp, that it got retubed/biased, yada yada yada. That means it's in really good shape power output wise.

What that also means is that you probably hit 100w on 3 on your volume knob, and a good 150 or more at 4-5.

If you turn your amp up past 5-6 you may notice you don't get any more volume but just more gain/saturation. That means you've maxed the output of the amp...and sadly, that means you sent 180-190w to those four 30w speakers.

In essence you either damaged them, cooked them, or they're on their way to doing that (if not already). The H magnet models shouldn't have any "flubbiness" to the bass response, so if you're getting that on 5...uh...it may be too late already.

Back in the 60's Marshall sold two 100 or 120w cabs with each 100w head for a reason. They blew speakers if they didn't.

Wow! Sincerely, thanks for the info. I never knew this could even remotely be a possibility. I have to say I'm not really a consistant high volume guy but who knows what happened to them before I got them. Would my second cab with the CL80/g12 80s be immune to this as they are much higher rated I think?

Dave, I'll never bust your balls again about using all those cabs!

Art - the only smoke was the Friedman laying waste to everything!!! oh and from your ears as you witnessed its greatness. Through your cab of course! and the 80s.

 

[stephen sawall]

This is part of the reason I always use double the speaker watts of the RMS output of the amp or more.