Frustrated: one amp for classic rock up to modern metal?

[WashburnX50]

Save your money. Pick up a used JCM2000 DSL, and call it a day.

Don't know why people get so caught up in thinking they have to spend a fortune. Hell, better yet, a Peavey JSX. 3 excellent, useable channels. Exceptional crunch, massive ultra channel, and damn fine for leads. I'd take a JSX over a 5150 III any day. Red channel on the 5150 is over the top, and unusable, (for me, anyway, and I love high gain). The blue channel is the 5150's bread and butter. Love that channel. If they lowered the gain on the red and made it more musical/useable, I'd still own one.
?
I'll throw the Randall KH103 out there as well.

The 5150 III red channel really just needs a simple preamp tube swap to calm down the gain, reduce some of the compression and increase it's dynamics.
I successfully obtained approx. two additional notches on the red channel gain dial and got more clarity. Where I would normally have the gain dial set to, I now have it set two notches back without any loss of attack or aggressiveness.
I also increased the blue channel's gain a little bit and made the mids warmer, punchier and less sterile.

I've owned the same JSX head since 2004 and have always loved it. But since owning a 5150 III and JVM, it doesn't see much play time anymore.

What tube setup did you go with to achieve those results? I'm about to start some tube swapping with my 50w EVH, and that sounds exactly like what I'm going for. Could be a good place for me to start my experimenting anyway!

 

[cardinal]

Ugh and I broke and ordered a Fortin 33. So eventually I’ll have that and the VFE Focus to try.

 

[napalmdeath]

Save your money. Pick up a used JCM2000 DSL, and call it a day.

Don't know why people get so caught up in thinking they have to spend a fortune. Hell, better yet, a Peavey JSX. 3 excellent, useable channels. Exceptional crunch, massive ultra channel, and damn fine for leads. I'd take a JSX over a 5150 III any day. Red channel on the 5150 is over the top, and unusable, (for me, anyway, and I love high gain). The blue channel is the 5150's bread and butter. Love that channel. If they lowered the gain on the red and made it more musical/useable, I'd still own one.
?
I'll throw the Randall KH103 out there as well.

The 5150 III red channel really just needs a simple preamp tube swap to calm down the gain, reduce some of the compression and increase it's dynamics.
I successfully obtained approx. two additional notches on the red channel gain dial and got more clarity. Where I would normally have the gain dial set to, I now have it set two notches back without any loss of attack or aggressiveness.
I also increased the blue channel's gain a little bit and made the mids warmer, punchier and less sterile.

I've owned the same JSX head since 2004 and have always loved it. But since owning a 5150 III and JVM, it doesn't see much play time anymore.

What tube setup did you go with to achieve those results? I'm about to start some tube swapping with my 50w EVH, and that sounds exactly like what I'm going for. Could be a good place for me to start my experimenting anyway!

Try a 5751 in V3 and V4.

 

[311boogieman]

5751 in P.I. is good in a lot of amps
EQ's in loops is good in most amps
The right OD in front of most amps
Treble on '0' sometimes in some maps
Mid-high gain passive pups for said map

 

[kylendm]

I think I'd suggest the SigX too like others are saying. That amp is super versatile and does it all great. The only thing that amp doesn't do great in my opinion is super saturated modern high gain. It's just like other Fryettes, dry, tight, and aggressive. Of course you could just throw a boost in front and get more gain but it still retains that dry, tightness. If that's the kind of modern high gain you're looking for then it's probably your best bet because it can so classic rock great on the other channels and the cleans are fantastic.

Another option would be the Randall/Synergy modular route and just get modules that do the tones your looking for. I have a few modded modules and they sound great. I hear the Synergy stuff is top notch as well.

 

[sytharnia1560]

Keep your jcm800. Get a Fortin Grind or even better a VFE Standout/Focus if you can find one, that'll boost the 800 into tight br00tz territory.

You're missing the point..clearly the OP wants to buy a new amp

I think his point is, (and I agree), he already has the amps to do what he wants, just needs to boost them with the right pedals.

yes that is totally Godgrinders point, and I to 100% agree with it which is why I made the joke about the OP

 

[cardinal]

Just waiting on delivery the Fortin 33 and the VFE Focus (predecessor of the Standout). Hopefully one of those will do the trick.

I stumbled into a Rev E Recto which I am liking a lot. Much more present and in-your-face than the Rev G Rectos I have here and much meaner sounding than the more hi-fi Triple I have here at the moment. Mid gain tone is pretty good. A bit generic; lacks the character of an old school Marshall but still a nice, beefy crunch. Higher gain has a great growl.

For the super low notes, it does need some help still to tighten up, either an OD/boost or an EQ pedal to trim some low end. To me it’s fine by itself down to low B but after that it needs a bit of help.

Disappointed that the serial loop still is a tone killer, so it has to stay bypassed (though it’s not like old Marshalls have loops either so I’m used to it at this point).

 

[311boogieman]

I don't tune as low as you Cardinal. I'd have to try it with my Quick Rod and report back. What tuning again?

 

[cardinal]

I don't tune as low as you Cardinal. I'd have to try it with my Quick Rod and report back. What tuning again?

Typical 8-string tuning: F# B E A D G b e

That F# is really the trouble. Honestly if I ignored it, I don’t have any issues because all of this stuff sound fine to me down to B. I’m hoping that something like the 33 will do it: I can quickly step on it for F# riffing and then off when back to the normal strings.

No different in concept than stepping on a wah pedal for some solos or riffs. That way I don’t need some exotic amp.

 

[311boogieman]

oh. yeah. I ain't gonna hit that

 

[D-Rock]

Save your money. Pick up a used JCM2000 DSL, and call it a day.

Don't know why people get so caught up in thinking they have to spend a fortune. Hell, better yet, a Peavey JSX. 3 excellent, useable channels. Exceptional crunch, massive ultra channel, and damn fine for leads. I'd take a JSX over a 5150 III any day. Red channel on the 5150 is over the top, and unusable, (for me, anyway, and I love high gain). The blue channel is the 5150's bread and butter. Love that channel. If they lowered the gain on the red and made it more musical/useable, I'd still own one.
?
I'll throw the Randall KH103 out there as well.

The 5150 III red channel really just needs a simple preamp tube swap to calm down the gain, reduce some of the compression and increase it's dynamics.
I successfully obtained approx. two additional notches on the red channel gain dial and got more clarity. Where I would normally have the gain dial set to, I now have it set two notches back without any loss of attack or aggressiveness.
I also increased the blue channel's gain a little bit and made the mids warmer, punchier and less sterile.

I've owned the same JSX head since 2004 and have always loved it. But since owning a 5150 III and JVM, it doesn't see much play time anymore.

What tube setup did you go with to achieve those results? I'm about to start some tube swapping with my 50w EVH, and that sounds exactly like what I'm going for. Could be a good place for me to start my experimenting anyway!

I did a lot of swapping but ended up with a premium labeled Groove Tube (?) in V1. I left the JJ in V2, put a Ruby HG in V3 and a Ruby AT7 in V4.
V5&6 are stock JJ, and V7 is an old VHT labeled AX7 from a 93' UL. I think it might be Yugoslavian (?).
The amp just sounds richer, more grunt, smoother, more organic. Less synthetic, less ultra modern.
The blue channel reminds me of my old Avenger, except tighter and with twice the gain. It's got that nice Marshall bite though too.
The red channel pretty much sounds the same as stock except with less gain and a bit less mids. Basically, the gain dial just doesn't get there as fast, I can run it about two notches higher and still retain clarity without getting that overloaded compression and low end that would normally come with the increased gain. But I still end up leaving the gain at noon.
As with most modern voiced high gain lead channels, they're typically not very abundant in midrange and the mids have dropped more on the red channel with this tube change so I run the dail pretty high to compensate.

 

[JimAnsell]

Boogie Mark 3. If you had one, you wouldn't be asking!!!

+1

 

[Jack Luminous]

Fredrik Thordendal played a very long time (up until about 10 years ago) with a JCM800 2203 and a TC preamp in front. I think it very well qualifies as modern down-tuned metal. He probably was already using 8-string guitars at the time. I don't find his tone lacking in any way.

 

[skullfxr]

On the cheap I say JSX. I never go below A though.

On the middle, the Nitro. Absolute brutality but can be tamed.

On the slifhy higher end, I would go with a sig:x If you are ok with the more dry Fryette kind of thing.

I own them all.

 

[Tone Jones]

If you haven't already, try the mid boost side of a Koko a try. Or a Rat.

 

[cardinal]

I should try a RAT. Which model is the right one? I don’t want to hunt down some original thing. I assume there’s a readily available version that is considered a good example.

 

[dirtyfunkg]

I believe the Mooer Black Secret is there Rat circuit with the original LM308 chip.

 

[thiswaythatway]

Funny, after all these years UI'm using a Mesa Mark V. The lead channel of course can be dialed in for metal but the rhythm channel is a real winner. You can use it without the onboard graphic EQ so you can get a much different tone from the lead channel. Stick an EQ pedal in the loop, don't use the onboard graphic EQ, and you can set the footswitch so that when you hit channel 2 the FX loop kicks in automatically with your EQ pedal. Then channel 3 with the graphic EQ and it automatically shuts off the FX loop. The TC is also good amp but the 3rd channel didn't do much for me, wouldn't mind trying it again though.

 

[cardinal]

Wonder if it’s the cab. Tinkered with some amps at GC playing through a JCM900 cab with I assume the T75s. Haven’t played through one of those cabs in a long while and use to hate them, but it seemed to keep the low end crisp.

I think the G12-65 cab is too round and bassy for the 8th string. Kinda itching for something like an Uberkab or maybe an Engl Pro, which a I think are suppose to sound pretty angry. Though that 900 cab sure would be cheap.

 

[dirtyfunkg]

K100's are great for downtuning...