Is Synergy still Worthy?

[skoora]

I was thinking about trying it and when I searched Synergy on the forum, the entire first page was classified posts off people selling their synergy stuff.
Mainly interested in high gain stuff like the SLO II, IIC, KK, Uber etc as I have Marshall, Vox and recto covered with amps. It certainly has its appeal not having to spend a coupe of thousand on each of those heads to try them if the modules get it done. But is it much ado about nothing compared to the real deals?

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Short answer is yes, they are still worthy.

The longer answer is you need to understand what the Synergy setup is and isn't.

First off, the modules sound excellent, but they are not a direct replacement for the actual amp. In most cases they are a good 97% of the way there. It's better to think of them as another channel on the amp or a different revision.

Second; and this is big, the power amp used matters. It can be the difference between liking and loving a module. The power amp makes up that last few percent of the overall tone and feel. Which power amp is "best" will be dependent on personal preference and what you're wanting to accomplish.

When it comes down to it, Synergy is 100% a viable setup.

 

[RedB4Black]

For me… I bought the Synergy DRect, Uberschall and UL modules (among others) and, using the Fryette 2/90/2 power amp, was comfortable selling my Dual Recto, Uberschall and Deliverance amp heads. The Killer Kalli module is good enough to replace some of my modded Marshall style amps, though not as close as the 3 previously mentioned were to their respective heads. Synergy has made it a lot easier to downsize my amp collection

 

[nightlight]

I've always want to get a couple of Synergy modules, maybe someday.

There are two trains of thought when it comes down to it. Some say it's great and replaced. Others say it was close, but not close enough.

If you can test one out, that would be ideal.

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Short answer is yes, they are still worthy.

The longer answer is you need to understand what the Synergy setup is and isn't.

First off, the modules sound excellent, but they are not a direct replacement for the actual amp. In most cases they are a good 97% of the way there. It's better to think of them as another channel on the amp or a different revision.

Second; and this is big, the power amp used matters. It can be the difference between liking and loving a module. The power amp makes up that last few percent of the overall tone and feel. Which power amp is "best" will be dependent on personal preference and what you're wanting to accomplish.

When it comes down to it, Synergy is 100% a viable setup.

To elaborate on my two points while I have a chance to type more detail...

Many of the modules are designed by the actual company/designer who did the actual amp. IIRC Steven Fryette did several of the others non "branded" ones so it's not like you're getting a module designed by some corporate hack. While maybe not sounding the exact same, you're still going to get something as close to the original amp as possible. As long as you think of it like an additional channel or different revision of the actual amp there's a low chance you'll be disappointed.

This is from my personal experience on how the power amp makes a difference in the final tone.
First example is my IICP module. I also have a Mesa Mark III to compare it to.
*Note reference the color chart at the bottom of this post to understand the analogy.

• I tried the IICP through my H&K Tubemeister 36 and it was pretty much ass all around. The EL84's and tiny transformers just were not a good fit to get a good full Mark amp tone. Don't get me wrong, it would work enough to get by, but there's much better options. I tried running it throught a couple other EL84 amps. While better than the Tubemeister it still wasn't a good fit. The shade wasn't even part of the color card.
• Going through my modded Randall RM100 was much better. The big boy tubes brought the big boy tone. Direct comparison to my Mark III, while minor, you could hear a difference. The RM100 colored the overall tone a little. It's like comparing Simply White to Cappuccino White. They're both similar shades, but you can tell a difference.
• Running it through my PS100 Powerstation was different from both the RM100 and the Mark III. The PS100 is a much more neutral power amp so the module did the heavy lifting. It was closer in tone to the Mark III than the RM100 was. Again still White, but a different shade than the original; like Simply White To Alabaster.
• Next was running the IICP through the Mark III. In this scenario the module was 99.5% the sound of the Mark III. The only difference I could tell when paying attention was the IICP was a slight bit smoother sounding the the Mark III. Everything else on the tone and feel was damn near the exact same. In fact when messing around with this setup, I would lose track of which one I was on they were so close. I'd compare it to Simply White and Ivory Keys, but the shades were even closer than that.
• Lastly is running it through my BV300 which is essentially putting the module through an Ampeg SVT power section. This gives me a different sound than anything above. As far as tone goes it still fits into the color card, being close to simply white; however, the 300 watt power section gave it so much more girth than anything else. I've never played a Mark Coliseum, but I could imagine this setup would be a similar experience. It's not a 1:1 comparison to my Mark III or any of the other setups I've tried, but it's by far my favorite.

I had a similar experience with my Savage and Powerball modules. While I don't own the actual amps for direct comparison, I have played though them to mostly know what they sound like. It wasn't worth it on the puny tubes/amps. The RM100 gave the modules a slightly different color. Nothing bad at all, but enough that you could hear it's influence. The PS100 was closer to what I remember the actual amps sounding like, but it didn't have that typical ENGL feel. Going through my ENGL Inferno & Morse was the best representation of the actual amp. The tone wasn't too far off from the PS100, but now it had the feel of an ENGL amp.

So like I was saying before Synergy is 100% worthy. You just have to understand what you are getting, know what you want to accomplish with it and set expectations accordingly. Personally I got into the Synergy platform because I'd like access to certain tones, but I don't really want to invest the money and space towards the actual amp. I'm fully satisfied with the 97%-99% representation of the actual amp. Then there's the added bonus of running modules through different power sections for a slightly different experiences; like the IICP into the BV300.

 

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

Having played synergy twice at @RedB4Black amp fests, i can tell you that synergy is highly power amp dependent if you are trying to hang with the big boy amps.

I remember when we tried it the first time, a guy had brought it over in a syn50 and it sounded great...until we compared it to the other amps.

The second time i tried it, Matt had got his own setup running it through a 2/90/2. It was way better than any other amp there. I fell in love with the SloII. And I don't even care for the actual slo.


I would think of it less about replacing those amps, and more like getting a slightly different flavor.

Moral of the story, I have never played an amp that sounded or felt as good as the SLO II into a 2/90/2

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Having played synergy twice at @RedB4Black amp fests, i can tell you that synergy is highly power amp dependent if you are trying to hang with the big boy amps.

I remember when we tried it the first time, a guy had brought it over in a syn50 and it sounded great...until we compared it to the other amps.

The second time i tried it, Matt had got his own setup running it through a 2/90/2. It was way better than any other amp there. I fell in love with the SloII. And I don't even care for the actual slo.


I would think of it less about replacing those amps, and more like getting a slightly different flavor.

Moral of the story, I have never played an amp that sounded or felt as good as the SLO II into a 2/90/2

I don't think people give enough credit to how much the power amp will influence the final tone and feel of the Synergy modules. I have a feeling a lot of people go in thinking the module does all the work and they can use whichever power amp is laying around. While the module is responsible for the core tone and gets you really close to the actual amp, the power amp plays its part too. It can be the difference between this sounds good and holy shit this is awesome.

 

[S̷͖͑m̵͎͂á̵̺s̸͚̈́h̴̬̑]

I don't think people give enough credit to how much the power amp will influence the final tone and feel of the Synergy modules. I have a feeling a lot of people go in thinking the module does all the work and they can use whichever power amp is laying around. While the module is responsible for the core tone and gets you really close to the actual amp, the power amp plays its part too. It can be the difference between this sounds good and holy shit this is awesome.

Yeah. And we did a little of the comparisons to the real amps. It would be impossible to tell the difference in many of the modules. The 6505 was dead on doing an a/b/y. The rectifier was spot on recto tone. But there is something to be said for matching it with a power amp that complements the module, or has enough range to match several.

If I were starting from scratch, I would have to go synergy. I was a huge skeptic, but it is for real badass

 

[MadAsAHatter]

Yeah. And we did a little of the comparisons to the real amps. It would be impossible to tell the difference in many of the modules. The 6505 was dead on doing an a/b/y. The rectifier was spot on recto tone. But there is something to be said for matching it with a power amp that complements the module, or has enough range to match several.

If I were starting from scratch, I would have to go synergy. I was a huge skeptic, but it is for real badass

Yup. There are some slight differences when compared to directly to the actual amps, but you're really only going to notice in a side by side comparison. If someone played the IICP with no reference and told me it was a Mark amp I'd be like "sounds like one to me".

I also think they have an advantage over modelers and profilers too since you're going all tube. The modelers can match tone really well but still fall short on matching the feel of a tube amp. You get the tone and tube feel with Synergy.

A couple things I wish they'd do is.
1. Make a Syn 100 amp. If they made a 3-4 slot 100 watt amp with all the more modern features I'd highly consider dumping my Randall for one. Unfortunately they went the opposite direction recently with the Syn 20IR. EL84
2. Make a couple modules of bass amps. The BMan module through an SVT power section works really well for bass. I also have a couple MTS modules modded into bass preamps; Marshall Super Bass, HiWatt DR201 and Orange AD200B. They all sound excellent going through any of my bass amps. Synergy could tap a whole new marked with some bass centric modules and a good class D power amp to go with them.

 

[Jccobb2]

I hope they’ll update the syn50 soon to match the feature set of the 20IR. What I’m afraid is more likely is doubling down on the small form factor by using the new solid state machine learning poweramp thats in the wampler pedal head instead of a 20w el84 poweramp.

 

[TheGreatGreen]

Anybody been able to convince Rick at Wizard to make the most awesome monoblock rack poweramp of all time?

 

[Rottweiler]

Thanks for this OP and everyones input. I too am on the synergy fence. I own a PS100 and a pittbull that I could use as the poweramp.

 

[marvcus]

I would think of it less about replacing those amps, and more like getting a slightly different flavor.

100%. This is the final answer.

 

[Noch]

i like amps that make the room hotter.
i like amps that you can smell when they are powered on.
i like amps that have character built in that varies from guitar to guitar, speaker to speaker, hot cold day, etc.

 

[skoora]

I have 50-100 watt heads with loops and a PSA2 so maybe could make it work.

 

[Rackman]

I was thinking about trying it and when I searched Synergy on the forum, the entire first page was classified posts off people selling their synergy stuff.
Mainly interested in high gain stuff like the SLO II, IIC, KK, Uber etc as I have Marshall, Vox and recto covered with amps. It certainly has its appeal not having to spend a coupe of thousand on each of those heads to try them if the modules get it done. But is it much ado about nothing compared to the real deals?

People buy and sell lots of shit, often for reasons that have little to do with how it sounds. I've sold SLOs, Ecstasys etc and none of them sounded bad. I may at some point sell my synergy rig, not because it's bad but because I've currently got four-five high gain rigs. Realistically I want two.

My personal opinion is that there are three high gain modules that are really nice in the Synergy ecosystem: SLO II, Uberschall, and Killer Kali. The IIC sounds good too but the siders are SO small and fiddly that I don't really find it usable. The T/DLX is also very functional on the low-gain side.

Power amp matters as others have said.

 

[Shask]

I love the Synergy stuff, and I agree about the power amp. You need something comparable to the original amp. If the preamp is normally connected to a 150w power amp, then you need a 150w power amp for the module to compare against the full amp.

 

[BesaMoogie]

Synergy or MTS modules being bought and sold a lot is part of the game. So don`t conclude that the system is bad and people are ditching it because there are a lot of modules for sale. You try a module, you either like it or not and move on to the next one.

Everything said about the poweramp is right. You need big bottles and trannies for big sound in the room. Synergy does not provide that at the moment.

You could always start with a Syn-1 or Syn-2 and feed it into the return of one of your amps and later upgrade, if you like what you hear.

 

[mentoneman]

Having played synergy twice at @RedB4Black amp fests, i can tell you that synergy is highly power amp dependent if you are trying to hang with the big boy amps.

I remember when we tried it the first time, a guy had brought it over in a syn50 and it sounded great...until we compared it to the other amps.

The second time i tried it, Matt had got his own setup running it through a 2/90/2. It was way better than any other amp there. I fell in love with the SloII. And I don't even care for the actual slo.


I would think of it less about replacing those amps, and more like getting a slightly different flavor.

Moral of the story, I have never played an amp that sounded or felt as good as the SLO II into a 2/90/2

i’ve played most of the friedman heads except phil x, butterslax, and be deluxe. have also owned the be-od and be deluxe od pedals and played through all the JEL 20/50/100 amps and IRJ pedal. my faves have been ss v1, JEL 50 or 100, plex and jose for reference.

what i can get from the be-dlx module into a vht 2-90-2, mesa 2:90, randall RT2/50, fx return of my mark III, or direct, totally checks that friedman hi gain tone box for me.

but i do notice more bloom and sustain from the heads when bending and holding out single notes.

 

[mnemonic]

I don't think people give enough credit to how much the power amp will influence the final tone and feel of the Synergy modules. I have a feeling a lot of people go in thinking the module does all the work and they can use whichever power amp is laying around. While the module is responsible for the core tone and gets you really close to the actual amp, the power amp plays its part too. It can be the difference between this sounds good and holy shit this is awesome.

This is the case for everything, even modelers. I think it’s easy for people to ignore power amps since they don’t have the same cool factor as a preamp, or pedal, or guitar. But even back before I had a house and was using an axe FX, getting a nice solid state power amp was night and day to a cheap power amp. Or even a mid-range power amp. I remember people posting on the axe FX forum, brand new axe FX and some shitty class D power amp. They didn’t want to hear what they were missing.

I have a few solidstate preamps and a Fryette GPDI tube preamp, I’ve run them all though all my amp FX returns and dedicated power amps, there’s a ton of difference there. I remember thinking my GPDI would be so great into my recto’s power amp, I was hoping for Fryette tightness and dryness with recto low end, but what I got was slight-different-flavor of recto, close enough I might as well just play the recto. That amps power amp does so much of the heavy lifting.