Metro 68 Plexi series 12 vid

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But while we're at it...I still think guitars are a much bigger contributor to any tone change. And guitars that happen to resonate in Bb, and are tunesd dow, especially with single coils willl piss over anythin g else. So there.
 
degenaro":cecef said:
Dude, I'm not being condescending, I find folks chasing other folks anything a waste of time. Where the fuck is that condescending? It's stuff everybody does when they're younger, It is an adolescent pursuit.

Saying that something people enjoy as part of their musical pursuits is "adolescent obsession" is fucking condescending. Some people aren't looking to "find their own voice" or whatever. They are trying to blow off some steam after work in a way that they enjoy.

Steve
 
sah5150":8cd11 said:
degenaro":8cd11 said:
Dude, I'm not being condescending, I find folks chasing other folks anything a waste of time. Where the fuck is that condescending? It's stuff everybody does when they're younger, It is an adolescent pursuit.

Saying that something people enjoy as part of their musical pursuits is "adolescent obsession" is fucking condescending. Some people aren't looking to "find their own voice" or whatever. They are trying to blow off some steam after work in a way that they enjoy.

Steve
I'm sure as fuck not gonna argue about this...you can fucking call it what you will, it's my opinion, deal with it.
People enjoy fucking golf and I find it a waste of time. Shit, people enjoy line danceing and I find that fucking a step removed from the special olympics, and make bread off it.
 
degenaro":57f94 said:
I'm sure as fuck not gonna argue about this...you can fucking call it what you will, it's my opinion, deal with it.
People enjoy fucking golf and I find it a waste of time. Shit, people enjoy line danceing and I find that fucking a step removed from the special olympics, and make bread off it.

I wasn't arguing about whether you find it a fucking waste of time. I was talking about whether what you said was condescending. You said it wasn't, it was, so you fucking deal with it. You can have whatever fucking opinion you want, I could care less. If it is condescending, I may mention it if I happen to be participating in the thread.

Hey, I got an idea - next time you're at a gig and people start line dancing - step up to the mic and tell them you think it is one step removed from the special olympics. That is exactly what you did here. Think about it...

Steve
 
degenaro":54977 said:
Shit, people enjoy line danceing and I find that fucking a step removed from the special olympics.

Damn it Ed! Now you've gone too far. Busting on line dancing? Is nothing sacred? :lol: :LOL:
 
sah5150":52682 said:
degenaro":52682 said:
I'm sure as fuck not gonna argue about this...you can fucking call it what you will, it's my opinion, deal with it.
People enjoy fucking golf and I find it a waste of time. Shit, people enjoy line danceing and I find that fucking a step removed from the special olympics, and make bread off it.

I wasn't arguing about whether you find it a fucking waste of time. I was talking about whether what you said was condescending. You said it wasn't, it was, so you fucking deal with it. You can have whatever fucking opinion you want, I could care less. If it is condescending, I may mention it if I happen to be participating in the thread.

Hey, I got an idea - next time you're at a gig and people start line dancing - step up to the mic and tell them you think it is one step removed from the special olympics. That is exactly what you did here. Think about it...

Steve
Right, you never busted up on any shit that you roll with for money right? Side note..there is a reason why the Country band will not let me have a mic. :)
Now if youy could kindly get over rating my social interactions so we can get back to argue about tone, because the other shit dure doesn't hold much excitement for me.
 
Chubtone":2217c said:
degenaro":2217c said:
Shit, people enjoy line danceing and I find that fucking a step removed from the special olympics.

Damn it Ed! Now you've gone too far. Busting on line dancing? Is nothing sacred? :lol: :LOL:
Dude....I so don't get the line dancing shit.
 
degenaro":97a28 said:
Chubtone":97a28 said:
degenaro":97a28 said:
Shit, people enjoy line danceing and I find that fucking a step removed from the special olympics.

Damn it Ed! Now you've gone too far. Busting on line dancing? Is nothing sacred? :lol: :LOL:
Dude....I so don't get the line dancing shit.

My line dancing mother in law, who lives out on some penninsula near you is gonna bust you up at your next gig. Yes, I don't get it either. It's really not fair to people in the special olympics to compare them to line dancers. Line dancers do it by choice :confused: :lol: :LOL:
 
Chubtone":4d81f said:
My line dancing mother in law, who lives out on some penninsula near you is gonna bust you up at your next gig. Yes, I don't get it either. It's really not fair to people in the special olympics to compare them to line dancers. Line dancers do it by choice :confused: :lol: :LOL:
Yeah, they get really red neck bone outside of Seattle.
 
Telephant":158d8 said:
Chubtone":158d8 said:
Telephant":158d8 said:
Another interesting note: I have a few live bootlegs of VH back in the day, like the Tokyo '78 bootleg, where his tone sounds like his recorded tone, but better! tighter low end, less hair on the top end etc...

So now Shea is saying that Eddie used completely different fingers while in Japan in '78? :confused:
No Im saying his tone got fucked in the recording process. :lol: :LOL:


Maybe it should do a Paris Hilton or Pamela, and get recorded in the fucking-process instead!
 
sah5150":8fb1f said:
degenaro":8fb1f said:
I'm staying out of the VH part of this discussion. Byt yeah an open position Am-G will sound different from player to player, as will open strings. Should be fairly obvious that where, how, etc...you attack the strings with what makes a difference.

And clearly it matters a ton who is driving the car, when there are POD clips where it sounds closer than some guy with some magically tweaked 3000 bucks head.

IMHO, there is no way that playing an open position Am-G through a cranked 100W PeaceMaker is gonna sound *that* much different from player to player who has reached a reasonable level of proficiency.

And yes, there are guys who can tweak a POD better than others can tweak their 3K amp, but that has nothing to do with the playing. If you wanna say "driving" is better tweaking and a better ear for tone, I'l agree, but in Vic's case, we know his settings. We were talking about playing an Am-G with the same settings through different serial numbers of the same amp model...

Steve

If you only strum an Am and a G, it probably won`t make much of a difference, but if you make a little "song" out of it, and only play those two chords over drums and bass (even if the rhythm section plays the same thing), there will be a difference IMO :)

attack, pick size, amount of force used to the fretting hand, everything will make a small difference in how it sounds. Granted, the similarities will probably outweigh the differences, but still :)
 
Tone is in the brain, perceived through the ears and is a culmination of 2 components:

Gear
Technique

The interaction of these two components, yields a final result which are interdependent on each other, to produce a signal that is passed through the air, to the ears and processed in the brain equaling tone, for the listener.

It is NOT one or the other because great gear doesn't guarantee great playing or great tone, AND great playing doesn't guarantee great tone, and poor playing doesn't guarantee bad tone (just bad playing)

I think a great player, playing on crappy sounding gear, will sound like a great player with crappy sounding gear. It's really not any more complicated than that.

The same great player, playing on GREAT sounding gear, will sound like a GREAT player with great sounding gear.

Same for a crappy player playing on GREAT sounding gear. They'll sound like a crappy player playing on great sounding gear, though, they'll NOT likely have the gear sounding as great as it could. :idea:

* Tone is in the brain, via the ears, NOT in the fingers, though finger picking vs a pick does sound different
* Technique is in the fingers, and will help one coax nuances out of equipment

While a seasoned player is just that, a seasoned player, their tone IS dependent on their gear. If you don't believe me and think that their tone is in their fingers, ask them to get a Flanger tone without plugging in their electric guitar, or get feedback, or delay tones, higher gain etc... or have them while playing unplugged, change the tone of their unplugged Les Paul, Tele or Strat sound like a Dobro or an acoustic guitar preferably a Gibson J200, or have them make a steel string acoustic sound like a ukulele, or a classical nylon string. ;) It ain't gonna happen

I think the reason most seasoned guys sound like themselves, no matter what they play through, is because they tend to dial in the sound they prefer, no matter what they play on, AND their touch on the instrument (technique) is uniquely theirs. I think a given player playing through a clean tone, will tend to dial in particular characteristics, as close as they can, to their favorite clean tone vice versa with a distortion tone.

I've noticed that most seasoned players will play appropriately for the tone/gear the ARE using, rather than trying to dial in a tone that the gear that they are using was NEVER designed to produce in the first place. (They are not likely to, while plugging straight in to a Fender Twin, going to try and play brutal death metal riffs, nor are they likely to while playing through a high gain amp set to do high gain likely to play Stairway to Heaven or ballad type of clean stuff.

Otherwise, THD and every other amp manufacturer wouldn't have more than one model or design because no matter what, a given player would sound the same through every piece of gear. (They don't) Gear has characteristics, and if tone weren't from the gear- a Pignose would sound just as good as a THD, An EHX Holy Grail would sound the same as a Lexicon PCM-80, etc... etc... They don't

my $.02
 
degenaro":78951 said:
You know when I got into computer recording, I spent countless hours on the phone with Cultreri and we discussed the hell out of many things. The one that stayed with me the most, find your own voice.

I think that you will find your own voice even when you chase a particular tone because that's when your technique comes into play.
I don't want to go to deep into this but the quickest way to success in anything is to mimic or model someone who has already achieved the goal you are trying to obtain. I think Ed had the best Marshall tone of all time and I also believe his tone can be achieved. Doesn't mean that Im going to sound like ed, I just dig that sound.

I have heard the statement you mentioned about amp builders commenting on the player vs what they put into the amp I still think they are confusing tone vs technique. Im sorry Ed but an open G chord that isn't palm muted sound pretty much the same from player to player. You can also hear the difference between a boogie and Marshall (here it in Sykes playing) and the tones are totally differant.
 
degenaro":26516 said:
sah5150":26516 said:
degenaro":26516 said:
Dude, I'm not being condescending, I find folks chasing other folks anything a waste of time. Where the fuck is that condescending? It's stuff everybody does when they're younger, It is an adolescent pursuit.

Saying that something people enjoy as part of their musical pursuits is "adolescent obsession" is fucking condescending. Some people aren't looking to "find their own voice" or whatever. They are trying to blow off some steam after work in a way that they enjoy.

Steve
Shit, people enjoy line danceing and I find that fucking a step removed from the special olympics, and make bread off it.

Now this made my freaking day!!!! :lol: :LOL:
 
Zachman":ae03d said:
Tone is in the brain, perceived through the ears and is a culmination of 2 components:

Gear
Technique

The interaction of these two components, yields a final result which are interdependent on each other, to produce a signal that is passed through the air, to the ears and processed in the brain equaling tone, for the listener.

It is NOT one or the other because great gear doesn't guarantee great playing or great tone, AND great playing doesn't guarantee great tone, and poor playing doesn't guarantee bad tone (just bad playing)

I think a great player, playing on crappy sounding gear, will sound like a great player with crappy sounding gear. It's really not any more complicated than that.

The same great player, playing on GREAT sounding gear, will sound like a GREAT player with great sounding gear.

Same for a crappy player playing on GREAT sounding gear. They'll sound like a crappy player playing on great sounding gear, though, they'll NOT likely have the gear sounding as great as it could. :idea:

* Tone is in the brain, via the ears, NOT in the fingers, though finger picking vs a pick does sound different
* Technique is in the fingers, and will help one coax nuances out of equipment

While a seasoned player is just that, a seasoned player, their tone IS dependent on their gear. If you don't believe me and think that their tone is in their fingers, ask them to get a Flanger tone without plugging in their electric guitar, or get feedback, or delay tones, higher gain etc... or have them while playing unplugged, change the tone of their unplugged Les Paul, Tele or Strat sound like a Dobro or an acoustic guitar preferably a Gibson J200, or have them make a steel string acoustic sound like a ukulele, or a classical nylon string. ;) It ain't gonna happen

I think the reason most seasoned guys sound like themselves, no matter what they play through, is because they tend to dial in the sound they prefer, no matter what they play on, AND their touch on the instrument (technique) is uniquely theirs. I think a given player playing through a clean tone, will tend to dial in particular characteristics, as close as they can, to their favorite clean tone vice versa with a distortion tone.

I've noticed that most seasoned players will play appropriately for the tone/gear the ARE using, rather than trying to dial in a tone that the gear that they are using was NEVER designed to produce in the first place. (They are not likely to, while plugging straight in to a Fender Twin, going to try and play brutal death metal riffs, nor are they likely to while playing through a high gain amp set to do high gain likely to play Stairway to Heaven or ballad type of clean stuff.

Otherwise, THD and every other amp manufacturer wouldn't have more than one model or design because no matter what, a given player would sound the same through every piece of gear. (They don't) Gear has characteristics, and if tone weren't from the gear- a Pignose would sound just as good as a THD, An EHX Holy Grail would sound the same as a Lexicon PCM-80, etc... etc... They don't

my $.02

Im sorry but this mans got it and this post should be stickied. :rock:
 
Digital Jams":14430 said:
Now this made my freaking day!!!! :lol: :LOL:

yeah and Id have to agree with him to a certain extent! I don't get dancing at all although I can appreciate it. Just not my thing
 
Pass the same guitar back and forth with a friend and don't change a thing.
Tone is in the hands to a large extent.
Even funnier are guys who have a Metro Amp....have a net hack fuck it up with shit mods.....and still think they own a Metro Amp.

Nothing a Metro will do no decent Marshall or clone will do.
They are recieving attention because grown men hope to attain a certain tone they wouldn't know what to do with even once they attain it.
 
chachaman":9abe8 said:
Pass the same guitar back and forth with a friend and don't change a thing.
Tone is in the hands to a large extent.
Even funnier are guys who have a Metro Amp....have a net hack fuck it up with shit mods.....and still think they own a Metro Amp.

Nothing a Metro will do no decent Marshall or clone will do.
They are recieving attention because grown men hope to attain a certain tone they wouldn't know what to do with even once they attain it.
Hi Carl!
 
Gainfreak":04e16 said:
chachaman":04e16 said:
Pass the same guitar back and forth with a friend and don't change a thing.
Tone is in the hands to a large extent.
Even funnier are guys who have a Metro Amp....have a net hack fuck it up with shit mods.....and still think they own a Metro Amp.

Nothing a Metro will do no decent Marshall or clone will do.
They are recieving attention because grown men hope to attain a certain tone they wouldn't know what to do with even once they attain it.
Hi Carl!


The Net hack line kind of sounds like him :confused:
 
I think some get "tone" and "technique" confused here.
I can tell it's Lynch playing when he blows a lead thru any amp with high gain... but it IS NOT the same tone!
See the difference?
Why did EVH choose to use that ONE Marshall head to record with for decades? If tone's all in his fingers, he coulda used anything!!??

He loved how that amp "sounded" even with his technique remaining the same, he could NOT get "that tone" outta any other amp!


Keith
 
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