NAD- Mesa Mark IIB Coliseum, Loop Modded insanity!

[Racerxrated]

I was always under the impression that pentode didn't come till the green stripe, which are all Simul & pentode. That's why it got the RMS bump.

My DRG 105 is decidedly more growly than my HRG X101 was. From reading other's experiences I feel the answer that is with these older amps, one is not just like the other. Whether that be how the components have aged, the tubes you're using, or just your personal perspective- for whatever reason some are just better than others. It's a joy to find a gem.

And this is why the upgrade vs original debate is moot. Each amp is different, no 2 sound exactly alike even with the same configuration. Sure, the original DRG long heads are WORTH more, because the market dictates that Simul C+ are the most desirable. But I prefer the fast tracking HRG more. The 2C+ Coliseum that will be coming back to me soon will have even more of the HRG attributes, because of that monster power section. Can't wait.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.

See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod

Not all... the HRG denotes 100W/Reverb/Graphic EQ... meaning it has a 100W non-Simul-Class output transformer. You can see pretty quickly if it has the Class A (Simul-Class)/Class AB switch on the back for the DRG... or 100W/60W switch on the back for the HRG. Same with the Colis... although many have a full-power 1/2 power switch on the front panel. You can also tell by looking at the OT transformer codes... 105 = DRG... 100 = HRG... X101 = Export OT. You can also pull the chassis and see if the outer power tube sockets have additional resistors added for EL34s in addition to the screen resistors on each socket.

You can add a triode/pentode switch to the blue stripes, so you can toggle back-n-forth between triode/pentode, and full pentode. But, I agree for what I like, the HRG IIC++ is "it" for me.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Well, there's an ass for every saddle. I have always preferred my DRG IIs and IIIs to the HRGs I've had. Well, Ok, I've only had the one HRG, but it was a C then a C+ then a C++ before I sold it so that's like 3 amps. Oh wait- I also had a JP2C, but it was the first of my Mark amps to go when the culling began.

Indeed and agree. LOL.

Try some other HRGs if you get the chance... you might be surprised.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

I was always under the impression that pentode didn't come till the green stripe, which are all Simul & pentode. That's why it got the RMS bump.

My DRG 105 is decidedly more growly than my HRG X101 was. From reading other's experiences I feel the answer that is with these older amps, one is not just like the other. Whether that be how the components have aged, the tubes you're using, or just your personal perspective- for whatever reason some are just better than others. It's a joy to find a gem.

No... there are some 100W HRG Blue stripes out there... I have one . 100W/60W switch in place of the Class A/Class AB Simul-Class switch. Basically the precursor to the Green stripe, and oddly enough, their production crossed in to early Green stripe production for whatever reason (probably to use up all the old parts), and the SRG 60W Blue stripe production continued well into and mid-way through Green stripe production.

I'm not a fan of the X101 OT at all. Too smooth = no fun. Maybe if I was playing fusion or jazz. But for metal, 100 OT all day.

 

[braintheory]

Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.

See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod

But, as close as your III black stripe coli is, does it have that incredible feel? No other amp I've played has that, the C+ is unique in that regard. The strings feel alive under the fingers. Wizards have some of that, but not like the C+. No other Mesa product that I've played has even come close to replicating that C+ feel. And that is what I love best about the C+.

That’s a very hard question to answer without you trying it, but I wanna say yes. I’ll have to compare again, but I don’t remember any noticeable difference in feel between the 2, but who knows, maybe you’d try it and find some subtle thing different in the feel that I don’t. It basically sounds exactly like my iic+, but with that extra horsepower, definition and bigness of the extra wattage and can switch between the + and ++ mode. I use the ++ mode more often and my iic+ obviously can’t do that. I honestly can’t imagine anyone hearing the 2 side by side and preferring my original HRG over my iii++ coli no stripe, but maybe there could be some slight feel thing in the HRG that I’m not as sensitive to, but I’d bet not. I’ll have to play em again. My Blue Stripe III++ Colis are different in sound and feel though to my iic+ HRG like I said before, but the things the blues have going for them is they’re a little tighter and I prefer there cleans; they’re more sparkly and Fendery. Best cleans I’ve heard in a channel switching amp by far. The only amps I have (and had) that I prefer for cleans are my 1964 Vibroverb (best cleans I’ve tried so far hands down) and Todd Sharp JOAT 45

 

[Racerxrated]

Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.

See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod

Not all... the HRG denotes 100W/Reverb/Graphic EQ... meaning it has a 100W non-Simul-Class output transformer. You can see pretty quickly if it has the Class A (Simul-Class)/Class AB switch on the back for the DRG... or 100W/60W switch on the back for the HRG. Same with the Colis... although many have a full-power 1/2 power switch on the front panel. You can also tell by looking at the OT transformer codes... 105 = DRG... 100 = HRG... X101 = Export OT. You can also pull the chassis and see if the outer power tube sockets have additional resistors added for EL34s in addition to the screen resistors on each socket.

You can add a triode/pentode switch to the blue stripes, so you can toggle back-n-forth between triode/pentode, and full pentode. But, I agree for what I like, the HRG IIC++ is "it" for me.

One thing I'd add is that there are no different transformers for the Coliseums, they all use the same PT/OT throughout the series. The Simul C+/III Coliseums are hard wired for the 2 middle sockets to take EL34s, they cannot take 6L6s. So a Simul Coli will be 150w instead of 180. Also, for European use they have to be re wired for 240. If you have a 2B Coli you can have Mike wire it for permanent Simul.

 

[braintheory]

Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.

See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod

Not all... the HRG denotes 100W/Reverb/Graphic EQ... meaning it has a 100W non-Simul-Class output transformer. You can see pretty quickly if it has the Class A (Simul-Class)/Class AB switch on the back for the DRG... or 100W/60W switch on the back for the HRG. Same with the Colis... although many have a full-power 1/2 power switch on the front panel. You can also tell by looking at the OT transformer codes... 105 = DRG... 100 = HRG... X101 = Export OT. You can also pull the chassis and see if the outer power tube sockets have additional resistors added for EL34s in addition to the screen resistors on each socket.

You can add a triode/pentode switch to the blue stripes, so you can toggle back-n-forth between triode/pentode, and full pentode. But, I agree for what I like, the HRG IIC++ is "it" for me.

So would my IIC+ HRG definitely be pentode then? It has also has the 100/60 switch on the back. And would my 2 blue stripe coli’s be triode since they’re simul-class and my no stripe pentode since it’s not simul?

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Aah so ZRs older IIB Coli has the 8 cap bank- perhaps it's a coli thing, and hence why a IIB coli is so much tighter than a IIB? Food for thought, except that Racer has had others previously and they didn't slay quite like this pair we got. Magic Mojo!

My Triple into a V30 full stack is indescribable. It won't be going anywhere!

Racer, I'll try that boost thing at practice. I've never liked to boost a Mark for gain (except for R2 on my Mark III which was amazing).

Side thought- with any of the Mark amps I've had- I can scoop them as much as possible and they are still more mid-present than either of my Rectos, and the Rectos still cut the mix better. My HRG C++ was almost honky in this regard. The DR+ just got lost in the mix. The DRG++ is the best in this regard (hence why I kept that one). "Where" their tone sits is just different.

See I've head several HRG & DRG C++s side by side and always preferred the sound, tone, and most importantly feel of the HRG due to the fact that it has a 100W all pentode power section compared to 75W triode/pentode mix. The DRGs always sounded a little less powerful, full, and not as tight and cutting... more spongy, softer. And these were factory stock DRGs, not upgrades too. My #1 HRG C++ cuts like a mofo and gets very scooped mids, and nails early Tallica tones to a "T". I think as I see and hear more and more Marks from this period, there can be some margin of variation despite the specs on paper. The JP2C is based on the HRG not DRG version, which is Petrucci's choice as well. Love my JP2C too.

Agreed on all. I’ve had my HRG IIC+ For years now and it quickly sent my simul iic+ I had before packing. I feel that simul class seems to also make the amps more compressed and smoother/less growl

I didn’t know the HRG’s are pentode though. For some reason, I thought all iic+’s were triode, but I’m not that knowledge with that technical stuff. I have 3 Mark III coliseum’s that all have the c++ mod by Mike B and I’m curious because 2 were blue stripe and one was no stripe (all 6L6’s). Would the blue stripe’s be triode and the no stripe pentode? The blue stripes still don’t have the voicing of my c+ down even with the c++ mod, while I feel the no stripe totally nails it and I actually prefer it to my iic+ HRG and it already sounded very close to my iic+ even before I sent it to mike for the mod

Not all... the HRG denotes 100W/Reverb/Graphic EQ... meaning it has a 100W non-Simul-Class output transformer. You can see pretty quickly if it has the Class A (Simul-Class)/Class AB switch on the back for the DRG... or 100W/60W switch on the back for the HRG. Same with the Colis... although many have a full-power 1/2 power switch on the front panel. You can also tell by looking at the OT transformer codes... 105 = DRG... 100 = HRG... X101 = Export OT. You can also pull the chassis and see if the outer power tube sockets have additional resistors added for EL34s in addition to the screen resistors on each socket.

You can add a triode/pentode switch to the blue stripes, so you can toggle back-n-forth between triode/pentode, and full pentode. But, I agree for what I like, the HRG IIC++ is "it" for me.

So would my IIC+ HRG definitely be pentode then? It has also has the 100/60 switch on the back. And would my 2 blue stripe coli’s be triode since they’re simul-class and my no stripe pentode since it’s not simul?

Yes on all counts. The Colis would be Simuclass which is a triode/pentode mix. I prefer all 6L6GCs anyway which is another positive for the HRGs for me. You can also use 6L6GCs rated at 21 ma plate current or less in outer sockets of the DRG models in place of EL34s.

 

[GJgo]

Tonight I played the IIB+ Coli at (metal) band practice. I ran it through that 4x12 Recto cab.

It KILLS. It's EASILY the best Mark I've ever played in the band mix & that includes all 3 of my C+/++. MASSIVE girth. Metal AF! I actually had to be careful as it could easily DOMINATE all other instruments if I didn't watch out.

Racer is going to be a very happy boy when he gets his back.

 

[Metal1977]

I have a Mark III purple coliseum, is it common to have a standard serial#?

 

[Exo-metal]

The Coliseum serial numbers all start with K, I believe it stands for kill.

 

[Exo-metal]

The Coliseum serial numbers all start with K, I believe it stands for kill.

 

[Exo-metal]

The Coliseum serial numbers all start with K, I believe it stands for kill.

 

[Exo-metal]

The Coliseum serial numbers all start with K, I believe it stands for kill.

 

[Metal1977]

The Coliseum serial numbers all start with K, I believe it stands for kill.

Joking aside, serial # close to 19000 instead of K xxx. I wonder if there is a lot of them without the K serial #? If so, there is maybe more of them on the market than we think.

 

[GJgo]

I've seen a lot if III Colis that didn't have a K serial. No big deal. Accounting wasn't exactly tight in those days..

 

[Metal1977]

I've seen a lot if III Colis that didn't have a K serial. No big deal. Accounting wasn't exactly tight in those days..

Thanks!

 

[Markedman]

K is for KILLS!!! Trust me, Coli's ain't your regular Mark series amp, and shouldn't be confused with their "lesser" brethren. They do hang with a C+ in the gain game, absolutely. It's a fact, I have proof. Mine is all stock and it rules, if it doesn't sell for a good penny, I will send it to Mike for the loop mod and maybe a donor C++ up grade.

 

[Markedman]

MESA/Boogie Mark 2B Coliseum by John Bazzano, on Flickr

 

[GJgo]

Guys, as discussed I kept mine a IIB but had the loop mod, and then more recently Racerxrated had Mike upgrade his to a C+ with a donor C+ he found's RP10. I would LOVE to get them in the same room.

This Coli is the only Mark I've ever played with my band that owns its place in the mix like my Rectos do. Marked man is right, they are a totally different animal. It totally satisfies my vintage Mark needs to the extent that I'm selling my last C++. Probably replace it with a IV or a V just to have that different, more modern tone in a more giggable package.