Ok here I bow thy head in shame. The JP-2C is fine.

[mrhiwatt]

Also I think live tones of many guys use less gain than you think. You can sound thunderous on a jcm800 or jmp with a boost and how hard you attack and the volume control. Mesa can sound great with or without a boost as well. Turn gain down on a rectifier boost it and the jar of bees goes away IMHO

MrHiwatt

 

[maddnotez]

So a little update.

Finally talked to Mesa. They said to me, stop being a dumbass. Lol

Jk, but they did say different color tubes will do nothing and that they won’t provide any different Ma.

I find that hard to believe and I feel they’re trained to say that to shut people like me up but what do I know? This is frustrating because I was banking on the tube thing.

He also blamed my cab lol. Which I will give the benefit of the doubt on. He said the cab/Speakers just might not react well with this amp and that very well may be true. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to get my 412 but I will soon and also have a 5150 2x12 I can try out next time im able to crank it up.

Maybe the other cab will help. Guess I have to sell my Mills 2x12 for a Mesa vert lol. I thoroughly enjoy the luxury of a 212 tbh so this is a little disappointing but not the end of the world if that is the issue.


I will report back once I get to test these other things out. Cabs/Less gain, etc.

 

[Metal1977]

So a little update.

Finally talked to Mesa. They said to me, stop being a dumbass. Lol

Jk, but they did say different color tubes will do nothing and that they won’t provide any different Ma.

I find that hard to believe and I feel they’re trained to say that to shut people like me up but what do I know? This is frustrating because I was banking on the tube thing.

He also blamed my cab lol. Which I will give the benefit of the doubt on. He said the cab/Speakers just might not react well with this amp and that very well may be true. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to get my 412 but I will soon and also have a 5150 2x12 I can try out next time im able to crank it up.

Maybe the other cab will help. Guess I have to sell my Mills 2x12 for a Mesa vert lol. I thoroughly enjoy the luxury of a 212 tbh so this is a little disappointing but not the end of the world if that is the issue.


I will report back once I get to test these other things out. Cabs/Less gain, etc.

I copy this from the Randall Smith Mesa color codes article. Someone at Mesa respond to a happy customer about swapping his power tubes from grey to red. So who's lying here?

 

[maddnotez]

Exactly ^^^

It’s funny too because even within the same post he first admits there is a draw difference but then proceeds to say how nobody would ever hear a difference.

Maybe not but headroom is headroom. I’m with you man in thinking I need later breakup that is pretty much the definition of what my issue is.

I won’t pretend that I’m an expert. I known nothing about Mesa amps and can barely even Bias other amps. But I would bet money on that this could make a difference. Even if it’s a small difference, that may be all I need.

I was hoping they’d trade me out for some other tubes and have a recommendation for me but I’ll have to just buy some I guess after I try my cab.

 

[Metal1977]

I'm far from an expert on this, just trying to help you.

My guess, it's all about the money. They don't care if you have a problem or not, they save the cost of new power tubes.

 

[maddnotez]

I'm far from an expert on this, just trying to help you.

My guess, it's all about the money. They don't care if you have a problem or not, they save the cost of new power tubes.

All good and I definitely appreciate the help. I’m not gonna lie and tell them a tube went bad, I’ll just have to buy some.

You think Green or Yellow given my description?

I have Blu, my tone is great at 11:00 and I’d like to be able to keep that around 2:00 but also wouldn’t want to stray too far away from the 11:00 tone since that’s going to be my miked volume. As long as new tubes don’t change the actual volume (which I doubt they will) ideally I’d want a balance between the best tone I can get at 11:00 for miked and 2:00 for unmiked.

 

[Metal1977]

I'm far from an expert on this, just trying to help you.

My guess, it's all about the money. They don't care if you have a problem or not, they save the cost of new power tubes.

All good and I definitely appreciate the help. I’m not gonna lie and tell them a tube went bad, I’ll just have to buy some.

You think Green or Yellow given my description?

I have Blu, my tone is great at 11:00 and I’d like to be able to keep that around 2:00 but also wouldn’t want to stray too far away from the 11:00 tone since that’s going to be my miked volume. As long as new tubes don’t change the actual volume (which I doubt they will) ideally I’d want a balance between the best tone I can get at 11:00 for miked and 2:00 for unmiked.

Sorry, i can't help you with the color choice. I was hoping that Mesa would provide you with some infos on that. I like my recto set at 28-30mA, now what color would give you this?

Guys like Psychodave and GJgo have lots of experience with these amps and tubes, they would know better. Greens look like a popular choice.

 

[psychodave]

So a little update.

Finally talked to Mesa. They said to me, stop being a dumbass. Lol

Jk, but they did say different color tubes will do nothing and that they won’t provide any different Ma.

I find that hard to believe and I feel they’re trained to say that to shut people like me up but what do I know? This is frustrating because I was banking on the tube thing.

He also blamed my cab lol. Which I will give the benefit of the doubt on. He said the cab/Speakers just might not react well with this amp and that very well may be true. Unfortunately I haven’t been able to get my 412 but I will soon and also have a 5150 2x12 I can try out next time im able to crank it up.

Maybe the other cab will help. Guess I have to sell my Mills 2x12 for a Mesa vert lol. I thoroughly enjoy the luxury of a 212 tbh so this is a little disappointing but not the end of the world if that is the issue.


I will report back once I get to test these other things out. Cabs/Less gain, etc.

I copy this from the Randall Smith Mesa color codes article. Someone at Mesa respond to a happy customer about swapping his power tubes from grey to red. So who's lying here?

I find Smiths comments about not being able to hear it possible, but you should be able to feel how the amp reacts to different tubes... quick breakup vs slow breakup...

 

[GJgo]

Mine were green. I wouldn't go hotter than that, personally. I've asked Mike B. over the years about color recommendations for my amps and have gotten a feel for it.

I recommend trying rolling the gain back at noon volume with a sealed cab & take it from there. The amp itself really starts to open up with the master at 2 or 3, but you have to pull gain / GEQ back to keep it sounding ideal. Good low volume settings are definitely different than high volume.

If you can get some recordings of the guitar by itself that would help, too. Hard to say in the mix.

I never recorded my JP real loud so I don't have a good audio comparo for you, sorry.

 

[Whowantsamustache]

Personally I think you are heading i the wrong direction with changing the power tubes. If you aren’t getting the gain you want it has nothing to do with the power tube section.

Mesa boogies rely on pre amp distortion. I have the amp and there is no problem with getting high gain.

As far as it going to shit at high volumes I would say playing through a 2x12 is the culprit.

Do you have a tube tester like the one from Orange? It’s a good investment to see if your tubes are weak and bad.

Also get familiar with the different push/pull options and shred mode. There is tons of gain to be had in the amp.

 

[Metal1977]

For sure having a 2x12 vs 4x12 and the speakers in those cabs will make a difference, i think it's a combination of things.

 

[maddnotez]

@GJ I will definitely try the settings and get a recording next time I get to open it up.

@Mustache ride could definitely be the 212. The tech said the same thing about the tubes. It’s hard to accept seeing how my other amp doesn’t have the same issue and takes the 212 fine but, I do know every piece of gear can act differently with something else.

Maybe it’s a combo between that and the settings. I’ve tried TONS of settings options but I don’t think I rolled back the gain since I’ve been wanting more gain so maybe that will do the trick.

 

[mchn13]

I haven't owned a jp2c, but my old mkIII was a gain monster, and loud enough to keep up with a jmp and a 2204 whether it was a 2x12 or a 4x12. I've never heard of an amp losing gain with more volume.
It really sounds like something's wrong. I would think about returning if it's an option.

 

[Metal1977]

Green rated power tubes is the hottest I go on Mark series amps. I had the same problem with OP talks about with my dual and triple (Version F) rectos. Once you turned it up loud it would compress out and sound like like shit. I’ve never had this problem with Mark series amps.

Is it possible that you would have the same problem, if you put white or blue rated power tubes in your Mark IIC++ and crank the volume like the OP?

 

[maddnotez]

Green rated power tubes is the hottest I go on Mark series amps. I had the same problem with OP talks about with my dual and triple (Version F) rectos. Once you turned it up loud it would compress out and sound like like shit. I’ve never had this problem with Mark series amps.

Is it possible that you would have the same problem, if you put white or blue rated power tubes in your Mark IIC++ and crank the volume like the OP?

I wish the tech would have just told me the truth lol.

I would really like to know the actual ratings for each tube color. Still would be trial and error but I could at least guess better. I guess green is right in the middle of the road so not a bad option.

 

[NinjaRaf]

I dunno about the cab, man...I have 3 cabs...Mesa halfback metal grill 412 loaded with legend V12s, Fender MH412 loaded with Legend V12s and Mesa V30s, Avatar Signature 212 loaded with Legend V12s. I play all of my cabs at high volumes these days, and there is never an issue with getting enough gain unless a preamp tube is out, or, in my case, something was wrong with the amp...which for me was blown orange drops throughout the amp, apparently lol.

And I also agree that this amp should have a SHIIIIITload of gain. You shouldn't be having any gain issues with the amp itself, and I really doubt the cab is causing this problem. By all accounts, your Mills should be equal or better than my Avatar.

My IV would lose gain, sustain, and volume, and just generally sound like shit when the OD caps were bad. Once those were replaced, no issues.

I did have a bad preamp tube that reduced gain and volume when I cranked the volume up on the amp, but that was easy to fix.

Is your amp still covered by Mesa's warranty? If so, send that bish in and get it looked at.

 

[maddnotez]

I dunno about the cab, man...I have 3 cabs...Mesa halfback metal grill 412 loaded with legend V12s, Fender MH412 loaded with Legend V12s and Mesa V30s, Avatar Signature 212 loaded with Legend V12s. I play all of my cabs at high volumes these days, and there is never an issue with getting enough gain unless a preamp tube is out, or, in my case, something was wrong with the amp...which for me was blown orange drops throughout the amp, apparently lol.

And I also agree that this amp should have a SHIIIIITload of gain. You shouldn't be having any gain issues with the amp itself, and I really doubt the cab is causing this problem. By all accounts, your Mills should be equal or better than my Avatar.

My IV would lose gain, sustain, and volume, and just generally sound like shit when the OD caps were bad. Once those were replaced, no issues.

I did have a bad preamp tube that reduced gain and volume when I cranked the volume up on the amp, but that was easy to fix.

Is your amp still covered by Mesa's warranty? If so, send that bish in and get it looked at.

Yeah it should be. I mean I just registered it a couple of weeks ago and the amp has not been out for 5 years.

I kind of agree the more I hear these things. My 2x12 is probably fine. It is ridiculous with my Bogner. No issues at all. I mean I guess it COULD just not react well with the Mesa.

I am going to get my 4x12 ASAP to figure this out. I'm not looking to pay for shipping but. It is what it is I guess. Either that or just return the amp altogether if it comes down to it.

 

[Wizard of Ozz]

Box that f-cker up and send it back. The tubes won't make the difference based on what you are describing. Mesa's are all fixed bias. Putting a higher rated tube in the amp will not increase/decrease the current in any large meaningful amount running thru the amp. It is a set amount that may vary slightly by installing different tubes... maybe 5 mA if you get the right set. Based on current tube quality/testing methods... don't get your hopes up.

Send it back... get a new one!!!!!

 

[RaceU4her]

theres 98347594 other amps on the market im sure you'd love without having to find some sort of magical tubes. send it back and get something else

 

[maddnotez]

theres 98347594 other amps on the market im sure you'd love without having to find some sort of magical tubes. send it back and get something else

Box that f-cker up and send it back. The tubes won't make the difference based on what you are describing. Mesa's are all fixed bias. Putting a higher rated tube in the amp will not increase/decrease the current in any large meaningful amount running thru the amp. It is a set amount that may vary slightly by installing different tubes... maybe 5 mA if you get the right set. Based on current tube quality/testing methods... don't get your hopes up.

Send it back... get a new one!!!!!

I get your points I should not have any issues like this but I do still want to try my 412 first. I am going to get it tonight.

I really like this amp so if I do return I would want to swap for another. I got it on my SW card and the only other thing they have that I would even want would be a Kemper or the Invective but idk, each of those is another thread.

The thing that really sucks is having to pay more money. I got it open box at SW for $350 off. The guy said it was open box and not used so I figured I would be fine. If I swap I have to pay $350. I have no idea how much it would cost me to ship to Mesa. (with no guarantee there is in fact something wrong with it)

So yeah tough spot for me with this.