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Cless357
Active member
That bloom is made by the variac...
Strong hints that Van Halen 1 68 lead was just a slave amp and not the main amp.
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Amp_chaser
Active member
You've been researching this for quite a while - hit us with some of your best recordings so we can see how close you're getting now kimg
it might take some time right now i'm building a mini emt 140 plate reverb to use for my future evh records. I also have all the components for my josé load box. I have to build it before building the amps.
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
Pfft, you think you can tell me something about blooming?
I used to work at Chili's, dude.
And no, I absolutely will not be trying a real JTM amp. I only want to try fake ones.
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
On a serious note, my experience with older Marshall circuits is basically just this Ceriatone Plexi50 I have, which is kind of a mutt between a '68 Plexi and an '87x from all I can gather. The thing I love about it, and the thing I suspect many love about these kinds of circuits, is how plugging different shit into it can bring entirely different results, even if the amp's knobs don't move.
What sounds thin and tiny on one guitar can sound huge with another and while the usual expectations are there; IE- high output pickups can compress too much and end up sounding smaller than lower output pickups, there's an additional 'layer' at play that's currently unpredictable to me, plugging different pedals in with different guitars changes the hair around the notes that I assume is a result of the individual items in the chain, primarily when this thing is cranked and especially if there's anything pushing/coloring the front end of the amp, even if minimally.
In that context, it seems like an exercise in futility to nail down the specifics on something like the VH1 tone. It's really incredible how much time has been spent dissecting it. I get it, when I go for Gilmour tones I've sometimes spent forever chasing down the details, but even he's been able to recreate those tones and I'm not sure I've ever heard Ed sounding exactly like the first album, outside of the first album.
What sounds thin and tiny on one guitar can sound huge with another and while the usual expectations are there; IE- high output pickups can compress too much and end up sounding smaller than lower output pickups, there's an additional 'layer' at play that's currently unpredictable to me, plugging different pedals in with different guitars changes the hair around the notes that I assume is a result of the individual items in the chain, primarily when this thing is cranked and especially if there's anything pushing/coloring the front end of the amp, even if minimally.
In that context, it seems like an exercise in futility to nail down the specifics on something like the VH1 tone. It's really incredible how much time has been spent dissecting it. I get it, when I go for Gilmour tones I've sometimes spent forever chasing down the details, but even he's been able to recreate those tones and I'm not sure I've ever heard Ed sounding exactly like the first album, outside of the first album.
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harddriver
Well-known member
No one can make you hear the obvious.....
Alot of us in this thread were on the journey you are 20+ years ago so have fun. 
In the end a good Marshall Plexi/Superlead with Ed's 1978 publicly known signal chain with the PAF'ish guitar pickup of your choice in a Northern Ash body has been what most of us landed on after the journey. If your SUHR SL68 isn't getting close to what Jacob Deraps gets with his stock 2024 Marshall Plexi then you may want to rethink things. I also remember you saying in your other thread that your Bray Plexi wasn't even getting you close to the tone even with all that gain and you sold that amp all these amps seem to be missing the mark.
Alot of people here are giving you good advice and pointing you is good directions. I guess even Dave Friedman is a piker when it comes to Ed. I wish you nothing but the best, alot of people here have forgotten more about the brown sound that what's been posted in all your threads. Let us know when you have clips better than a variaced 1968 plexi as compared to Ed's live tones......which is what he recorded VH1 with.
When you have this tone live, you will have VH1 tone, just plug this tone into the Sunset Sound Reverbs and delays and overdose on VH1 but if you don't play with a heavy hand, strangle the neck, have swing and dig in on those 9-40 strings like Ed....well... you won't sound like the album and that's OK. I forgot that you said Ed's live tones are nowhere near VH1....I'd say they are pretty spot on minus all the studio EQ's and reverbs and preamps used in the studio, this live tone is as close as anyone will get, including you... unless you have Ed hands and the 1977 Sunset Sound Studio strapped to your ass.
This was recorded 10/15/77 right after the studio sessions of VH1 so chances are everything he used in the studio was used live here.
Van Halen's debut album was recorded from late August to early October 1977, with the majority of the work completed between August 31 and September 8. The album was recorded at Sunset Sound Recorders in Hollywood, CA.
Here's a more detailed breakdown:
- Recording Dates: The recording sessions began on August 29, 1977, and concluded on October 4, 1977.
- Timeline: The main recording sessions, where most of the tracks were laid down, took place between August 31 and September 8.
- Location: The album was recorded at Sunset Sound Recorders in Hollywood, CA.
- Producer: Ted Templeman produced the album.
- Live Recording: The album was largely recorded live in the studio, with minimal overdubs.
- Overdubs: A few tracks, like "Runnin' with the Devil," "Jamie's Cryin'," "Feel Your Love Tonight," and "Ice Cream Man," included guitar overdubs
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Racerxrated
Well-known member
Except, by your description of your gear you left out a VERY important ingredient...the JBL D120s. Very hard to find these days, with OG cones but you can also try the D123s as they also give that clarity and 'sizzle' you hear on VH1.
First time I fired up the 50w 72 with the EVH spec circuit, and plugged in to my cab with GBs and JBLs, there it was. If I were to add a legit echoplex in front, and could time travel back to Sunset studios in 77 I'd bet my rig would be damn close after recording it. With Ed playing of course.
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Amp_chaser
Active member
That shows you how much of ignorance there is amongst guitar players and fake myths there is inside van halen tone story...
THERE NEVER WAS ANY JBL D120F in the van halen 1 record one session.
People assumed there was because they saw a picture of david lee roth sitting on a cab and thought it was van halen 1 session while it was for van halen 2 session. Another thing is that those cabs never entrered the studio. If you look inside the cabs inside the studio of van halen 2 picture there no jbl d120f for the explaination look here :
1. In a tone talk episode it was mentionned that the JBL d120f were used to fill the holes of the upside cabs eddie didn't want to use 4 speakers verticaly because it woud be too loud so to fill the voids of the 4th hole he put jbl d120f. That explains why the silver domes were beaten up the team didn't care to damage those speakers... they were dummy speakers. Even if David lee roth was sitting on a cab with jbl d120f those were not connected. Moreover there are no studio pictures of van halen 1 except one in black in white. The pictures from david lee roth sitting on the cab comes from van halen 2 not 1. Get your sources straight...
HERE IS THE PROOF that it was on van halen 2 the right picture was taken by Neil Zlozlower during van halen 2, aka the same person who followed eddie and wrote a biography in which it says that van halen 1 amp was modded by josé arredondo :
David lee roth wears the same outfit as in van halen 2 studio. Look at the right there inside the studio there is no jbl d120f. those cabs were brought there only for a photo shotting...
2. I contacted someone selling the original flag systems cabinets from the early 80's made for eddie those were filled with blackbacks g12m 75h but also with g12h 55hz speakers...
Man i'm like a tone archeologist and i'm working on van halen for at least 10 years...
the thing of removing 2 tubes by Jim Gaustaad I discovered it threw modding and way before him and even posted on tdpri here and the marshall forums. If you remove the 82k or 100k resistors (only one of the two) of the phase inverter it will sound exactly if you removed half of the power tubes. I discovered it way before Jim plus i did it threw modding he discovered it threw testimonies...
You can ask any neutral amp builder even if removing the 82k or 100k resistor isn't exactly the same things the result is the same tonally it forces half of the power tubes to work harder and if you look at the dates it's before jim even published anything about this on the net. Another thing if this sounds bad on my audio samples it's because at that time i had no experience in recording, irl it sounds awesome.
sources :
Mike Oxhuge
New member
Have you even tried the JBL's? It's hilarious that you make claims to know what he didn't use while speculating what he might have as Gospel. Lots of people have tried the JBL's and all went holy shit there it is!
RevDrucifer
Well-known member
You can’t record a 30 second clip that remotely demonstrates all these secrets you’ve obtained, but you can call people ignorant for not knowing the dates of VH photo shoots that took place in the 70’s?
How exactly are you able to separate the studio’s influence on the VH1 recordings if you don’t know how a studio works?